N.N.

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N.N.

Birthdate:
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Wife of Arnt Bac
Mother of Arnt Bac and Herman van Rijt

Managed by: Maria Gesina (Mary) Zomer
Last Updated:

Over N.N. (Nederlands)

There is no certainty about the wife of Arnold Bac. Hans Vogels states that he might have been married to an illegitimate daughter of one of the lords of Mechelen (suggestion done in a message in the Yahoo Group Middeleeuwse Genealogie by Hans Vogels, 8 January 2002). In a later message, Hans Vogels explains this further and states that there are claims that abbot Hubert Bac of Tongerloo descended from the Berthout family (message in the Yahoo Group Middeleeuwse Genealogie by Hans Vogels, 7 May 2003). Ton de Kort took this one step further and suggested that, based on onomastics, she might have been a daughter of Voogd (advocatus) Waltherus de Nobele Berthout van Mechelen, V (suggestion done in a message in the Yahoo Group Middeleeuwse Genealogie by Ton de Kort, 26 May 2003). This is taken one step further again by Hans Vogels, who suggested that this illegitimate daughter might have been named Goda/Godelt/Gudelt/Gudula, because this name appears in later generations of the Bac family, is also known in the Berthout family, since a Wouter Berthout married Guda van Loon ca. 1169 (suggestion done in a message in the Yahoo Group Middeleeuwse Genealogie by Hans Vogels, 19 February 2007). The illegitimacy was deducted by Hans Vogels from the difference in status between the noble Berthout family and the ministerial Bac family. A marriage between these families could only have taken place if the Berthout wife was an illegitimate child (message in the Yahoo Group Middeleeuwse Genealogie by Hans Vogels, 9 November 2011). However, this was all just a theory for which argumentation can be given, but for which proof based on contemporary sources fails.
Recently, Hans Vogels has stated that he is no longer supporting the theory that the wife of Arnold Bac was a Berthout (see his messages in the forum of the Brabants Historisch Informatie Centrum on this subject of 14 March 2017 and 16 March 2017, where he states "De laatste stand van zake inzake Bac is dat ze niet afstammen van de Mechelse Berthouts", in English: "The current state of affairs concerning Bac is that they do not descend from the Berthout family of Mechelen"). The same conclusion was reached by Frans van Son in his blog of 8 October 2016.
Therefore, it should not be presented as a fact that the wife of Arnold Bac was a Berthout
(Willem Nabuurs, 3 December 2019)

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