Sir Ralph de Somery, Baron Dudley

Sir Ralph de SOMERY Baron Dudley (1151-1210) [Pedigree]

Son of Sir John de SOMERY (1125-1195) and Hawise PAYNEL (1129-1208)

      REF AR7. Held Dudley and Dinas Powis.

   b. ABT 1151, Dudley, Worcester, Eng.

   r. Dudley, Worcester, Eng.

   d. 1210/1211

Married Margaret MARSHALL [Did NOT! He actually married her *niece*.] http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3P-S.htm#Ral...

m (before 1194) as her first husband, MARGARET Crassus [le Gras], daughter of WILLIAM [III] Crassus & his wife [--- Marshal] (-after 14 Jun 1247). Her parentage and first marriage are confirmed by a charter [dated to before 1194] under which “William le Gros” gave land at Little Dalby to “Ralph Somery” as part of the marriage contract for his daughter Margaret[1322]. [The Complete Peerage names “Margaret m 1stly Ralph de Somerey, 2ndly Maurice de Gaunt” as the first daughter of John FitzGilbert “the Marshal” and his second wife[1323]. If right, this would mean that she was Margaret Marshal, daughter of John Marshal & his second wife Sibyl of Salisbury. From a chronological point of view, it cannot be correct. The births of the children of John FitzGilbert and his second wife can be dated to [1145/55]. Concerning Margaret’s first marriage, the chronology suggests that the children of Ralph de Somery and his wife were born in the late 1190s or the early years of the 13th century. Concerning the second marriage, Maurice de Gant’s wife is recorded as living in 1247. As can be seen, none of these dates is compatible with Margaret having been the daughter of John FitzGilbert.] The Pipe Roll 1210 records that "Margareta que fuit uxor Radulfi de Sumeri" arranged to pay an instalment of her fine for the assignment of her dower in Berkshire in midsummer[1324]. Margaret married secondly ([1220/21]%29 as his second wife, Maurice de Gant. This second marriage is indicated by two sources relating to Staffordshire, where Ralph [II] de Somery had been granted land by King John (see above). Firstly, King Henry III ordered the sheriff of Staffordshire to permit “Maurice de Gant” to collect scutage from knights’ fees he holds in his bailiwick of the land “he holds in dower of Margaret his wife”, dated [Sep] 1224[1325]. Secondly, the Assize Rolls for 1228 record that eight persons were summoned to show cause why they intruded into “a carucate of land which Alan de Englefeld held, the custody of whose lands after his death belonged to Maurice de Gant and Margaret his wife...the land formed part of the dower of Margaret”[1326]. Alan de Englefield was Margaret’s son-in-law (see below). Several other sources have been identified which name Margaret, none of which makes the connection between Ralph de Somery and Maurice de Gant. Three of these sources clearly refer to the widow of Ralph de Somery: (1) “Roger de Sumeri” confirmed an agreement between “Margaret his mother” and “William de Englefeld” [his nephew, son of his sister Isabel] concerning a grant and exchange of lands “at Bradfield”, Berkshire[1327], undated, but presumably dateable to after Roger’succession to the family estates following the death of his nephew Nicholas (before 4 Jul 1229); (2) and (3) two sets of entries in the Testa de Nevill, Berkshire fees in [1235/36] which include " i.m de i. feodo in Englefeud de feodo de Sumeri et...quarta parte unius feodi Nicholai le Butiler de eodem honore [=honore de Walingeford?] et i.m de i. feodo Margerie de Sumery in Cumton Beucamp de eodem honore et i.m. de i. feodo eiusdem Margerie in Idesleg...et...in Adecote...Watindeden...Stanford...Yngelpenne de eodem honore"[1328], and Berkshire fees in [1242/43] which name "Rogerus de Sumery in Bradefeld i. feodum...Margareta de Sumeri in Bradefeld unum feodum predicti Rogeri...Willelmus de Englefeld in Englefeld unum feodum de eodem feodo"[1329]. Two further sources clearly refer to the wife of Maurice de Gant: firstly, Henry III King of England ordered the sheriff of Somerset, notwithstanding the order of seisin in favour of "Walter de Everm", to give seisin of "maneriis de Cantokesheved et de Hivis [Quantockshead and Huish]...que fuerunt Mauricii de Gant quondam viri sui" to "Margarete de Sumery" as dower, by order dated 1231[1330], and secondly “Margaret de Somery” reached agreement with “Henry de Gaunt rector of the almonry of St Mark’s Hospital, Billeswick” on the tithes of the mill of East Quantoxhead, Somerset and other matters by charter dated 14 Jun 1247[1331]. Two more sources are inconclusive: the Plea Rolls for 1233 include a claim in Oxfordshire by “John de Beauchamp” against “Margery de Sumery, in a plea of land and wardship”[1332], and an undated order, in 1237, records “Assizes taken...in...Worcestershire” from “Margaret de Somery”[1333]. Thomas Stapleton made a detailed study of the life of Maurice de Gant in the mid-19th century but all the sources to which he refers are inconclusive regarding the parentage of Maurice de Gant’s second wife[1334]. It is somewhat surprising that Maurice would have married the widow of Ralph [II] de Somery who, although she had proven her child-bearing capacity, must have been nearly 40 years old by [1220]. Stapleton dates the Margaret de Somery/Maurice de Gant marriage to “prior to the fifth year of Henry III [Nov 1220/Nov 1221] when Maurice de Gaunt paid scutage of Byham for the manor of Bradfield in Berkshire to Percival de Sumery”[1335]. Ralph [II] & his wife had [five] children

Children:

  1. Ralph de SOMERY [bad dates based on bad identification of wife] (d. c. 1220) m. Ida "prima" de Longespee (no children, marriage may never have been consummated).

  2.  WILLIAM Perceval de Somery (d. before 20 Jun 1222) m. unknown, 1 son Nicholas, d. before 4 Jul 1229.

  3. Sir Roger de SOMERY (c. 1200/1208-1273) m(1) Nicole d' AUBIGNY (1206-1240), five children; 2) AMABIL, widow of GILBERT de Segrave, daughter of ROBERT de Chaucombe of Chaucombe, two more children. Sir Roger wound up with all the marbles.

  4. Joan de SOMERY (1191-1276) m(1) Thomas "The Observer" de BERKELEY Lord of Berkeley (1170-1243).

  5.  ISABEL de Somery (probably youngest, possibly posthumous) m. ALAN de Englefield.

Corrections from http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3P-S.htm#Ral...

=================================================================================================

Sources:

1. "Ancestral roots of certain American colonists who came

        to America before 1700",

        Frederick Lewis Weis, 1992, seventh edition. *[Note: Weis is highly unreliable.]*

        The earlier editions were called: "Ancestral roots of

        sixty colonists who came to New England 1623-1650"

2. "Some Early English Pedigrees," Vernon M. Norr.

3. "Magna Charta Sureties, 1215",

        F. L. Weis, 4th Ed. *[Note: Weis is highly unreliable.]*

4. "The Ancestry of Dorothea Poyntz",

        Ronny O. Bodine.

5. "The Complete Peerage",

        Cokayne.

6. "Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists Who Came to New England 1623-1650",

        Weis, *[Note: Weis is highly unreliable.]*

        Editions 1-6.

        The latest edition (7) of this book is titled: "Ancestral roots

        of certain American colonists who came to America before 1700"

        by Weis, 1992, 7th edition. Information which has been checked in

        the latest edition usually has the reference key "AR7", while

        information from earlier editions (1-6) will have the reference

        key "Weis1".

Sir Ralph de Somery1

M, #129623

Last Edited=18 Sep 2004

    Sir Ralph de Somery lived at Dudley, Worcestershire, England.1

Child of Sir Ralph de Somery and Margaret Marshal

Joan de Somery+1 d. a 1273

Citations

[S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), volume II, page 126. Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage.

See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p384.htm#i8400 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )

   * Married: ABT 1181 in Of, , Wiltshire, England 1 2

   * Sealing Spouse: 11 Mar 1992 in LVEGA

Children

  1. Joan Somery Lady Berkley b: ABT 1195 in Dudley, Worcester, England

  2. William Percival Somery b: ABT 1217 in Dinas Powys, Wales

  3. Roger Somery b: ABT 1020

  4. Lafracoth O' Brian b: 1076 in Pembroke, Wales

  5. Ralph Somery b: 1219 in Dinas Powis, Wales

  6. Roger De Somery b: ABT 1208 in Of, Dinas Powis, Wales

  7. Roger Somery b: ABT 1208 in Dinas Powys, Wales

Sir Ralph de SOMERY Baron Dudley (1151-1210) [Pedigree]

Son of Sir John de SOMERY (1125-1195) and Hawise PAYNEL (1129-1208)

REF AR7. Held Dudley and Dinas Powis.
b. ABT 1151, Dudley, Worcester, Eng. r. Dudley, Worcester, Eng. d. 1210/1211 Married Margaret MARSHALL

Children:

1. Ralph de SOMERY (1172-) 2. Sir Roger de SOMERY (1208-1273) m(1) Nicole d' AUBIGNY (1206-1240) 3. Joan de SOMERY (1191-1276) m(1) Thomas "The Observer" de BERKELEY Lord of Berkeley (1170-1243). Sources:

1. "Ancestral roots of certain American colonists who came

to America before 1700", Frederick Lewis Weis, 1992, seventh edition. The earlier editions were called: "Ancestral roots of sixty colonists who came to New England 1623-1650" 2. "Some Early English Pedigrees," Vernon M. Norr.

3. "Magna Charta Sureties, 1215",

F. L. Weis, 4th Ed. 4. "The Ancestry of Dorothea Poyntz",

Ronny O. Bodine. 5. "The Complete Peerage",

Cokayne. 6. "Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists Who Came to New England 1623-1650",

Weis, Editions 1-6. The latest edition (7) of this book is titled: "Ancestral roots of certain American colonists who came to America before 1700" by Weis, 1992, 7th edition. Information which has been checked in the latest edition usually has the reference key "AR7", while information from earlier editions (1-6) will have the reference key "Weis1".

Sir Ralph de Somery1

M, #129623

Last Edited=18 Sep 2004

Sir Ralph de Somery lived at Dudley, Worcestershire, England.1 Child of Sir Ralph de Somery and Margaret Marshal

Joan de Somery+1 d. a 1273

Citations

[S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), volume II, page 126. Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage. -------------------- Sir Ralph de Somery of Dudley was heir of his uncle, Gervase Paynel, to the barony of Dudley on 29 September 1194 at Michaelmas.

See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p384.htm#i8400 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm ) -------------------- Marriage 1 Roger Somery [Lord Dudley] b: ABT 1160 in Dudley, Worcester, England

• Married: ABT 1181 in Of, , Wiltshire, England 1 2
• Sealing Spouse: 11 Mar 1992 in LVEGA Children

1. Joan Somery Lady Berkley b: ABT 1195 in Dudley, Worcester, England 2. William Percival Somery b: ABT 1217 in Dinas Powys, Wales 3. Roger Somery b: ABT 1020 4. Lafracoth O' Brian b: 1076 in Pembroke, Wales 5. Ralph Somery b: 1219 in Dinas Powis, Wales 6. Roger De Somery b: ABT 1208 in Of, Dinas Powis, Wales 7. Roger Somery b: ABT 1208 in Dinas Powys, Wales read more