Roger du Maine, Comte du Maine

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Roger du Maine, Comte du maine

Also Known As: "Count of Maine"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Charente, Maine, Poitou Charetes, France
Death: before circa October 31, 900
Sarthe, Pays de Loire, France
Immediate Family:

Son of Helgaud de Ponthieu, comte de Montreuil and Helissende de Ponthieu
Husband of Rothilde of the Franks
Father of Hugues I, Comte du Maine and Judith du Maine
Brother of Herluin II, count of Ponthieu; Évard I de Ponthieu, seigneur de Ham; Gisla de Ponthieu; Hildegard de Ponthieu and Blance de Ponthieu

Occupation: comte du Maine, Vicomte, Seigneur du Mans
Managed by: James Fred Patin, Jr.
Last Updated:

About Roger du Maine, Comte du Maine

Comtes du Maine

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/MAINE.htm

ROGER [Rotger] ([855/65]-before I Nov 900). His birth date range is estimated from the estimated date of his marriage which, assuming that his wife's origin is correctly shown below, must be reasonably accurate. Abbo names "Rotgaire, comte et neveu de Hugues" as one of the supporters of "Hugues…prince et gouverneur de Bourges" in his war against Guillaume "le Pieux" Comte d´Auvergne, dated to 889 from the context[79]. Comte du Maine 897. The Actus pontificum Cenomannis records the attacks on the bishopric of Le Mans by "Rotgario", while Gunherius was bishop (from 890 to 913)[80]. His marriage, and the appointment of his rival Gauslin by the Capet family (see above), indicate that Roger must have been a Carolingian supporter. His date of death is estimated based on the charter dated 1 Nov 900 which names his presumed son and widow (see below). m ([890]%29 ROTHILDIS, daughter of Emperor CHARLES II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks & his second wife Richildis [de Provence] ([871]-[928/29]). Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks confirmed donations of property "in comitatu quoque Cœnomannico" made by "Hugo comes et mater sua Rothildis", at the request of "genitrix nostra Adeleidis et…comes Hugo consanguineus, necnon et…comes Ecfridus" by charter dated 1 Nov 900[81]. The charter dated 929 subscribed by "Hugonis comitis filii Rotgerii comitis" suggests that Rothildis must have been the wife of Roger[82]. Flodoard names "Rothildis, amitæ suæ [regis Karoli], socrus autem Hugonis" when recording that the king deprived her of "abbatiam…Golam" [Chelles] in favour of his favourite Haganon, the context dictating that "Hugonis" was "Hugo filius Rotberti"[83]. As the paternal aunt of King Charles III, chronology determines that she must have been the daughter of her father's second marriage, although no source has yet been identified which confirms that this is correct. She acquired the monasteries of Chelles, and Notre-Dame and Saint-Jean at Laon. She retreated to Chelles in 922 but was deprived of the monastery by her nephew Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks in favour of his favourite Haganon, an event which led to the rebellion of Robert Marquis en Neustrie who was the father of Rothildis's son-in-law (Hugues, later "le Grand" Duc des Francs)[84]. Her death is dated to [late 928/early 929] as Flodoard names "Rothildis…nuper defunctæ" when recording that "Heribertus et Hugo comites" (specifying that "Hugo" was "gener ipsius Rothildis") attacked "Bosonem Rodulfi regis frater" in 929 over the property of Rothildis[85]. Comte Rotger & his wife had two children:

i) HUGUES [I] du Maine ([890]-[26 Mar 931/Sep 960]). Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks confirmed donations of property "in comitatu quoque Cœnomannico" made by "Hugo comes et mater sua Rothildis", at the request of "genitrix nostra Adeleidis et…comes Hugo consanguineus, necnon et…comes Ecfridus" by charter dated 1 Nov 900[86]. This presumably indicates that Hugues's father was already dead at the time, and that Hugues himself was still a minor under the guardianship of his mother. If his mother's origin is correctly identified as shown above, Hugues could have been no more than ten years old at the time. It is assumed that "comes Hugo consanguineus" and "Hugo comes…" named in this charter were the same person, although this is not beyond all doubt. If it is correct, the consanguinity would have been through Hugues's mother who was King Charles's paternal aunt as shown above. He succeeded his father in [900] as Comte du Maine. His parentage is further confirmed by the charter dated 3 May 929 under which Hugues, future duc des Francs, returned property to Saint-Martin de Tours, subscribed by "Hugonis comitis filii Rotgerii comitis"[87]. Flodoard records that in 924 Raoul King of France granted Maine to "Hugoni filio Rotberti"[88] who, as noted below, was married to the sister of Hugues [I] Comte du Maine. It is not known whether this grant resulted in Comte Hugues [I] being temporarily dispossessed, or whether the appointment amounted to replacing Hugues (future Duc des Francs) as suzerain over Maine instead of the king. The latter is more probable as Comte Hugues [I] subscribed the charter of [Duc] Hugues dated 929, which indicates a continuing relationship between the two. ["Willelmi comitis, Hugoni comitis, item Hugoni, Savarici vicecomitis, Kadeloni vicecomitis, Adraldi vicecomitis, Radulfi vicecomitis…" subscribed the charter dated [936/37] ("anno I Ludovico regnante") under which "Senegundis" donated "alodem suum in pago Alienense, in vicaria Basiacinse in villa…Fornax…" to St Cyprien, Poitiers[89]. Settipani suggests that "Hugonis comitis" can reasonably identified as Hugues [I] Comte du Maine[90].] "Hugonis ducis, filiorum eius Othonis et Hugonis, Odonis comitis, Hugonis comitis Cenomannorum, Hervei comitis Mauritaniæ, Lamberti vicecomitis" subscribed the charter dated 25 Jun 954 under which "Lambertus filius Ansberti cum Girberga sorore mea…" donated property "in territorio Corbonensi" to Chartres Saint-Père[91]. "Teutbaldi comitis, Teutbaldi junioris, Gausfredi comitis, Hugonis comitis Cenomannorum…" subscribed the charter dated Sep 960 under which "Aremburgis" donated property to Saint-Florent de Saumur[92]. "Hugonis comitis Cenomannorum" in these two documents could either refer to Hugues [I] or Hugues [II]. m ---. The name of Hugues´s wife is not known. Hugues [I] & his wife had [one possible child]:

(a) [HUGUES (-after [936/37]). "Willelmi comitis, Hugoni comitis, item Hugoni, Savarici vicecomitis, Kadeloni vicecomitis, Adraldi vicecomitis, Radulfi vicecomitis…" subscribed the charter dated [936/37] ("anno I Ludovico regnante") under which "Senegundis" donated "alodem suum in pago Alienense, in vicaria Basiacinse in villa…Fornax…" to St Cyprien, Poitiers[93]. If, as noted above, Settipani is correct in suggesting that "Hugonis comitis" in the list of subscribers in this charter can reasonably identified as Hugues [I] Comte du Maine[94], it is possible that "item Hugoni" was his son or other close relative. If this is correct, the chronology suggests that he may have been the same person as [David/Hugues] du Maine who is shown below.]

ii) [JUDITH] du Maine ([before 900]-925). The marriage of Hugues Comte de Paris with the daughter of Roger Comte du Maine is deduced from Flodoard naming "Rothildis, amitæ suæ [regis Karoli], socrus autem Hugonis" when recording that the king deprived Rothilde of "abbatiam…Golam" [Chelles] in favour of his favourite Hagano, the context dictating that "Hugonis" was "Hugo filius Rotberti"[95]. The source which names her father has not yet been identified, but it appears reasonably certain from the sources quoted above that Rothilde's husband was Roger. She is named Judith in Europäische Stammtafeln[96], but the primary source on which this is based has not yet been identified. According to Settipani her name is not known[97]. m ([914]%29 as his first wife, HUGUES, son of ROBERT Marquis en Neustrie, Comte de Paris [later ROBERT I King of France] & his second wife Béatrix de Vermandois [Carolingian] ([898]-Dourdan, Essonne Jun 956, bur Saint-Denis). He was installed as HUGUES "le Grand" Duc des Francs in 936.

------------------------------

Henry Project: https://fasg.org/projects/henryproject/data/roger000.htm

Roger

Count of Maine, late 890's.

Nearly all of what is known of count Roger of Maine is related in a letter of Gontier, bishop of Le Mans. Gontier's predecessor, Lambert, died on a 13 December on the same day as count Bérenger, in an unknown year, probably in the middle of the 890's [Nec. Mans, 329; see the page of Bérenger for more on the chronology]. Gontier accuses Roger of ravaging the possessions of the diocese, and states that Roger was driven out by duke Robert (later king Robert I), who established a certain Gauzlin as count, but that Roger then succeded in driving out Gauzlin [Act. Pont. Cenom. 342-7; Latouche (1910), 14-6; Barton (2004), 35-6].

Date of Birth: Unknown.

Place of Birth: Unknown.

Date of Death: Before 31 October 900.

He was undoubtedly deceased on that date, when his son Hugues, count of Maine, appears with his mother in an act of Charles the Simple. See the page of Hugues I for further details.

Place of Death: Unknown.

Father: Unknown.

Mother: Unknown.

Spouse:

Rothilde, d. 22 March, not long before 929, daughter of Charles the Bald, king of the Western Franks, Emperor.

Rothilde does not appear in any document with Roger, but she appears as the mother of Roger's son Hugues. See Rothilde's page for further details.

Children:

MALE Hugues I, d. after 26 March 931, count of Maine.

Hugues is called a son of Roger in two charters of 930-1. See the page of Hugues I for further deatils.

FEMALE NN, m. Hugues le Grand, duke of France.

See Rothilde's page.

Commentary

Conjectured ancestor: Roger, 8th century, count of Maine.

(said to be related to the Rorgonid counts of Maine)

This is a common onomastic conjecture, based on the fact that there was an eighth century count of Maine named Roger, who in turn had a son named Gauzlin (Gauziolenus), a name common in the Rorgonid dynasty of counts of Maine [Act. Pont. Cenom., 244-5; Boussard (1968), 19, 24; Keats-Rohan (1994), 6; Jackman (1999), 138]. The conjecture is plausible, but unproven.

Suggested identification of Roger: Roger, nepos of Hugues, count of Bourges.

[e.g., Keats-Rohan (1994): 8-9; Keats-Rohan (2000), 65] This is based on the suggestion that Roger of Maine was the same as a certain Rotgarius, nepos of Hugues (Ugo), count of Bourges, both present at the siege of Paris by the Vikings in 885-7 [Abbo, De Bello Parisiaco, ii, 562-5, MGH SS 2: 800]. For the old hypothesis that Hugues of Bourges was the husband of Roger's wife Rothilde [Depoin (1908), 590-3], see the page of Rothilde.

Conjectured daughter (unproven): Richilde, m. Thibaud, viscount of Tours (parents of Thibaud le Tricheur, count of Blois).

[Keats-Rohan (1997), 194; Keats-Rohan (2000), 65] See Rothilde's page for a discussion.

Bibliography

Act. Pont. Cenom. = Busson & Ledru, eds., Actus Pontificum Cenomannis in urbe Degentium (Archives Historiques du Maine 2, Le Mans, 1902).

Barton (2004) = Richard E. Barton, Lordship in the County of Maine c.890-1160 (Boydell Press, Woodbridge, 2004).

Boussard (1968) = Jacques Boussard, "Les destinées de la Neustrie du IXe au XIe siècle", Cahiers de civilisation médiévale, Xe-XIIe Siècles 11 (1968), 15-28.

Depoin (1908) = Joseph Depoin, "Études préparatoires à l'histoire des familles palatines. III Thibaud le Tricheur - fut-il bâtard et mourut-il presque centenaire?" Revue des études historiques 74 (1908), 553-602.

Jackman (1999) = Donald C. Jackman, "Rorgonid Right - Two Scenarios", Francia 26/1 (1999): 129-153.

Keats-Rohan (1994) = K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Two Studies in North French Prosopography", Journal of Medieval History 20 (1994): 3-37.

Keats-Rohan (2000) = K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, " 'Bilichildis' Problèmes et possibilités d'une étude de l'onomastique et de la parenté de la France du nord-ouest", in Keats-Rohan & Settipani, eds., Onomastique et Parenté dans l'Occident médiéval (Oxford, 2000), 57-68.

Latouche (1910) = Robert Latouche, Histoire de comté du Maine (Paris, 1910).

MGH SS = Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores series.

Nec. Mans = Busson & Ledru, Nécrologe-obituaire de la Cathédrale du Mans (Archives Historiques du Maine 7, Le Mans, 1906).

Werner (1958) = Karl Ferdinand Werner, "Untersuchungen zur Frühzeit des französischen Fürstentums (9.-10. Jahrhundert)", Die Welt als Geschichte 18 (1958): 256-289.

Werner (1967) = Karl Ferdinand Werner, "Die Nachkommen Karls des Großen bis um das Jahr 1000 (1.-8. Generation)", Karl der Große 4 (1967): 403-483.

Compiled by Stewart Baldwin

Uploaded 10 January 2008.


Rodgar de MAINE Count of Maine 1, 2, 3 was born 865 in Maine, France. He died 31 Oct 900 in Maine, France. Rodgar married Rothilde Abbess of Chelles on 890 in , Maine, France.

Rothilde Abbess of Chelles [Parents] 1, 2, 3 was born 871 in Paris, Ile-de-France, France. She died 22 Mar 928 in Chelles, Seine-et-Marne, France. Rothilde married Rodgar de MAINE Count of Maine on 890 in , Maine, France.

They had the following children:

     		M 	i 	Hugh I de MAINE Count of Maine was born 891 and died 931.
     		F 	ii 	Richilde de MAINE was born 893.
     		F 	iii 	Judith de MAINE was born 898 and died 925.

Sources:

   1Schwennicke, Detlev, Europäische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten (Marburg: Verlag von J. A. Stargardt, 1978-), III-692, Family History Library, 940 D5es.
   2le Hête, Thierry, "Richilde, Wife of Thibaud the Old, Viscount of Tours," Foundations 1:1 (Jan 2003), p. 3, The Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, http://fmg.ac/.
   3Settipani, Christian, La Prehistoire des Capetiens: 481-987 (Villeneuve d'Ascq: P. Van Kerrebrouck, 1993.), Tableau 7, Los Angeles Public Library, 929.74 S495.

Rodgar, comte du Maine, was nephew of Hugo, Count of Bourges, who died 892.

He married Rothildis des Francs Occidental, daughter of Carolus II Calvus, empereur auguste and Richildis de Provence, circa 890.

See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p315.htm#i14780 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )


Rodgar de MAINE Count of Maine 1, 2, 3 was born 865 in Maine, France. He died 31 Oct 900 in Maine, France. Rodgar married Rothilde Abbess of Chelles on 890 in , Maine, France.

Rothilde Abbess of Chelles [Parents] 1, 2, 3 was born 871 in Paris, Ile-de-France, France. She died 22 Mar 928 in Chelles, Seine-et-Marne, France. Rothilde married Rodgar de MAINE Count of Maine on 890 in , Maine, France.

They had the following children:

M i Hugh I de MAINE Count of Maine was born 891 and died 931. F ii Richilde de MAINE was born 893. F iii Judith de MAINE was born 898 and died 925. Sources:

1Schwennicke, Detlev, Europäische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten (Marburg: Verlag von J. A. Stargardt, 1978-), III-692, Family History Library, 940 D5es. 2le Hête, Thierry, "Richilde, Wife of Thibaud the Old, Viscount of Tours," Foundations 1:1 (Jan 2003), p. 3, The Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, http://fmg.ac/. 3Settipani, Christian, La Prehistoire des Capetiens: 481-987 (Villeneuve d'Ascq: P. Van Kerrebrouck, 1993.), Tableau 7, Los Angeles Public Library, 929.74 S495.


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Roger du Maine, Comte du Maine's Timeline

866
866
Charente, Maine, Poitou Charetes, France
890
890
Pays de la Loire, France
900
October 31, 900
Age 34
Sarthe, Pays de Loire, France
900
????