Warin "The Sheriff" de Metz, I

https://books.google.com/books?id=NJwuAAAAMAAJ&pg=PR7&dq=Shropshire...

Shropshire: Its Early History and Antiquities: Comprising a Description of the Important British and Roman Remains in that County: Its Saxon and Danish Reminiscences: the Domesday Survey of Shropshire: and the History of Its Forests, Towns, Manor, Abbeys, Churches, Castles, and Great Baronial Houses

By John Corbet Anderson

London, Willis and Southeran, 1864

[MTD]

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http://knight-france.com/geneal/names/2761.htm

Genealogy - KNIGHTs from Continental Europe to England/Ireland, to Philadelphia (PA), to France - Sept. 2016

Warin DE METZ, , Sheriff Of Shropshire

[MTD]

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http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/eaton/4230/

Warin the Bold By genealogy.com user August 16, 2001 at 01:35:58

I found this information on Warin the Bold, and if he were the Warin who was sheriff, would not one of his family have inherited the position which they apparently did not.

Thomas6 De La Lee (John5 De Lee, Reyner Reginaldus4, Hugo3 De Lega, Hugo2 Fitzwarin, Warin The1 Bold) was born in Lea Hall and Alderton, England.

This is evidently the forerunner of the Lees of Virginia.

Child of Thomas De La Lee is:

+ 7 i.Thomas7 De La Lee.

Re: Warin the Bold By Rick Eaton August 16, 2001 at 08:02:06 In reply to: Warin the Bold 8/16/01

Barbara:

You may want to check my original, long posting about the Sheriffs as taken from Blakeway.

Warin, who is said by John Corbet Anderson (for one) to be Warin the Bald, was succeeded by his brother, Rainald or Reginald, who was Sheriff at the time of Domesday.

Next listed IS Hugh, and I quote: Son of Warin.-- Is said to have been Sheriff: but this I doubt."

Blakeway gives no reason for his doubt.

Next is Fulco, apparently from 1098 to 1102.

Then, 19 years later, during the reign of Henry i, the third Sheriff was Fulco. Is this the same Fulco or another? I don't know. However, Blakeway quotes Mr. Godolphin Edwards as characterizing this Fulco as the son of Rainald.

Fulco, by the way, was followed by "Alan. Son of Fladald.--He is supposed to have married Warin's daughter.

Now, to the Lees. I know, as a fact, that a Thomas Lee, who built Connecticut's oldest surviving house in East Lyme, Connecticut, is an Ancestor. I have been in the house several times and my father wrote a reference to that ancestry in the now museum's guest book. Alas, I do not remember the text as I was last there as many as 20 years ago.

The first Shropshire Sheriff named Lee was Robert Atte Lee, Sheriff in 1387. The next was a Thomas Lee (knight), appointed November 11, 1395. He was preceded in office by John Eyton, 1394.

So, perhaps the plot thickens.

I think that my great-great-grandfather Amos,a West Point graduate like R.E. Lee and, unlike, the Confederate Lee, a Yankee general during the Civil War, would have very much liked to have known his counterpart's lineage... especially if any connection could have been founded.

One final thread so thin that you could see through fabric woven from it: I am convinced that Leaton Grange, not far from Eaton, Eyton-on-the-Weald Moors, Eaton Constantine and other places of importance to probable Eaton ancestors, was a holding of some Eaton. I previously posted the story of the Oldham family, who now occupy the estate, so I won't repeat it. But there could be a tie to Lea and Leaton. There could be none.

Rick

Re: Warin the Bold By genealogy.com user August 17, 2001 at 04:58:30 In reply to: Re: Warin the Bold Rick Eaton 8/16/01

I always had assumed the first tie in between the de Eytons and Lega/Legh/Lees was from Matilda de Lega who married William de Eyton, but perhaps it does start much earlier than that with Warin the Bold.I've also seen several references to the uncertainty of Hugh being a son to this Warin, but nonetheless, it seems very likely.Alan stated very emphatically, that in Chester there were as many "Leghs as fleas."

A few questions then remain as to why a Lee would not have succeeded as Sheriff until after 1300 if Warin the Bold was progenitor of the Leghs the position of sheriffwas so often inherited, especially if Warin had been a Norman brought over with William the Conqueror.Was Rainald who succeeded only there because he married Warin's widow and was stepfather to Warin's rightful heir who was a minor?And who is Fulk as undersheriff and is he related to Warin or Rainald?If to Rainald, then Rainald would have to have been married earlier with a grown son to have position.The only other slight possibility might lie in the fact that Warin the Bold and Warin de Metz were one and the same, and although Warin the Sheriff died by 1086, R. W. Eyton stated that Warin de Metz had another son, Warin.Perhaps these two have been combined leaving us with an extended timeline and an assumption that Warin the Sheriff (the Bold) and Warin de Metz couldn't have been the same.If there is another Warin involved, why is there absolutely no information as to who he was or why he had properties to pass on to our Robert.And then we skip over to Fitz Flaald and Fitz Alan.

I have also been reading more about the lineage of the Bretons, and believe most definitely that they were related by marriage to William the Conqueror's family, thus giving more credence to the prominent position they took in Shropshire from otherwise unknown barons.Sharon was right on.6,000 mercenaries was said to come with William the Conqueror, primarily Bretons & Flemings.One of William's main concerns was how to reward them for their service, and one way was obvious - confiscated property and position.The mercenaries came primarily for what they could get out of it, and as the Counts of Brittany were part of Williams's extended family, they would get choice pieces.It is even said that later, Matilda's constant companion was Brian Fitz Count, son of Alan Fergant, Count of Brittany in service to Henry. Brian Fitz Count held the castle of Wallingford.

From the Peerage Studies by J. Horace Round, he further reiterates that close to the end of the Conqueror's reign, among others to rise in prominence from Dol, was a "Baderon and his son, the Domesday tenant."There is a Baderon de Monmouth who married a descendant of the Norman family of Richard de Clare.Richard and his brother Baldwin were forced to flee Normandy upon the asassination of their father, finding refuge with Baldwin V, Count of Flanders. William the Conquerer allowed them to return to Normandy, but without return of their family lands. Richard became Lord of Bienfaite and Orbec. He accompanied William to England during the Conquest, and served as joint regent with Williamn de Warenne during the Conquerer's absence in 1075. He was granted a lordship centered on Clare, Suffolk, with estates in Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, and Kent, including the manor and castle of Tonbridge.

Round further states that it was another Breton family of which Alan Dapifer with brother Rhiwallon took prominence.Alan Dapifer of Dol "took part in the first crusade, 1097."He was styled in a charter of 1095 [from Bretagne cartulary of Marmoutier] as Alan Dapifer of Dol recording a gift to Marmoutier by Hamo, son of Maine "with consent of his lord, Rhivallonius dominus Doli castri, filius Johannis archiepiscopi."His brother's son, Alan fitz Flaald also appears in these same Bregon documents, as well as Rhiwallon "Extraneus" the founder of the Norfolk family of Le Strange, which gives them the perfect positioning for being guardians and protectors later of the Fitz Alan estate.

As to the relationship to William the Conqueror, Judith de Bretagne, daughter of Conan I de Bretagne and Ermangarde D'ANJOU, was the mother of Robert II Duke of Normandy, William the Conqueror's father.Her great-grandson (I believe) was Ranulph "De Briquessart", Earl of Chester Le MESCHINES.Judith's brother, Geoffrey de Bretagne, was married to Hawisa de Norman, sister of Judith's husband and therefore, aunt to William the Conqueror.Their son was known as Alan de Bretagne, Count of Brittany, and I believe the cousin Robert, Duke of Normandy, asked to protect his 7 year old son William.It is many years later when William comes to the aid of Alan, Count of Brittany, against the aggression of Conan III, and according to Round, "Duke William and Harold of England had relieved [William, eldest son of Rhiwallon, lord of Dol] when he was besieged by his lord [Conan]."

It is Conan IV, Earl of Richmond, and Margaret Maid of Norway's daughter and heir, Constance who marries Henry II's third son Geoffrey in 1169, and by 1171 at Conan IV's death, it is Geoffrey who succeeds him.Thus we finally have an Englishman ruling over the house of Bretagne.

[MTD]

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http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id50.html

Please see Darrell Wolcott: Welsh Origins of the Peverel Family; http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id50.html. (Steven Ferry, April 15, 2020.)