Catharina van Paliacatta, SM/PROG - mtDNA L0a2a2a1 - Catharina van Paliacatta, SM/PROG

:-) Fantastic! Have you checked the line?

And please update the SA mtDNA project :-)

Hi Sharon, thanks. We still need check the maternal lineage. I would appreciate it very much if the mtdna line could be double-checked before posting the results in the SA mtdna project.

1. Jacoba Elizabeth van Zyl (Theron)

2. Christina Johanna Theron (Esterhuyse)

3. Christina Johanna Esterhuyse (Cloete)

4. Anna Hendrina Engela Esterhuyse (Cloete)

5. Anna Hendrina Engela Cloete (Esterhuyse)

6. Johanna Maria Esterhuizen (Jordaan)

7. Johanna Susanna Jordaan (Vlok)

8. Anna Margaretha Catharina Vlok (Davel)

9. Johanna Katharina Davel (Nel)

10. Margaretha Nel (Beyers)

11. Catharina Beyers (Wagenmakers)

12. Catharina van Paliacatta

There are death notices confirming the maternal lineage to no.8 Anna Margaretha Catharina Vlok (Davel).

Anna Davel's mother is noted in the 2015 GISA Database as Johanna Katharina Nel.

Johanna Nel's death notice is given on her Geni profile with her mother as Margaretha Beyer(s).

Margaretha Beyer(s), in her baptism entry, is noted as the child of Andries Beijers and Catharina.

On p.42 of Pioneers, Plunderers, and Patroits: History of The Bekker Family in South Africa by Henry Shaw, it states that Catharina Wagenmakers (born 1658), the daughter of Catharina van Paliacatta, was the wife of Andries Beijers.

https://books.google.co.za/books?id=0Hsa4VPJHhMC&pg=PA42&lp...

Siddi carry L0a mtDNA also.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3135801/#!po=25.0000

3rd in line, Christina Johanna Esterhuyse. Her maiden name was Esterhuyse (first cousin of her husband, Willem Johannes), not Cloete.

With this result Catharina Wagenmakers cannot be Catharina van Paliacatta's daughter. Unfortunately, when I add candidate relationships on First Fifty Years, people on Geni and and Wiki and MyHeritage just add them as fact.

L0a2a2 found in India and Pakistan occur in very specific groups of Muslims, the Indian Dawoodi Bohras and the Pakistani Sindhi Muslims and in the western cities of those countries. The Dawoodi Bohras are also found in Yemen and East Africa.

It is very clearly stated several times in the record that she came from Paliacatta (var.), now known as Pulicat, which is on the east coast of India.

Furthermore, the particular mtDNA group L0a2a2a1 has thus far been recorded only in Zamibia and in an African American who ancestry would be in Africa. In addtion L0a2a2a1 is a full sub-branch from L0a2a2 - these generally occur hundreds, if not thousands of years apart.

Catharina v Paliacatta was listed as a candidate mother for Catharina Wagenmakers because of the group of people within which she circulated, and because her sister was a strong candidate to be the daughter of CvP.

The Bekker book referred to above has adapted Mansell Upham's research (Cape Mothers) in which Mansell clearly states the evidence of the relationship between the two women is circumstantial. The author of the Bekker book did not point this out.

It is my opinion that you need to remove Catharina v Paliacatta as Catharina Wagenmakers' mother, for whose mother, the search continues. But that is up to you.

Thank-you for the correction Koba.

The lineage is as follows:

1. Jacoba Elizabeth van Zyl (Theron)

2. Christina Johanna Theron (Esterhuyse)

3. Christina Johanna Esterhuyse (Esterhuyse)

4. Anna Hendrina Engela Esterhuyse (Cloete)

5. Anna Hendrina Engela Cloete (Esterhuyse)

6. Johanna Maria Esterhuizen (Jordaan)

7. Johanna Susanna Jordaan (Vlok)

8. Anna Margaretha Catharina Vlok (Davel)

9. Johanna Katharina Davel (Nel)

10. Margaretha Nel (Beyers)

11. Catharina Beyers (Wagenmakers)

12. Catharina van Paliacatta

Delia, what was the original thinking (circumstantiao evidence?) for adding Catharina Wagenmakers as the child of Catharina van Paliacatta?

Private User Not sure how familiar you are the population at the Cape in those early years, but it was very small?

The pool of women eligible to be the mother of a slave child was tiny. You go on baptisms, witnesses to baptisms, journal entries, monster- opgaafrollen, resolutions, naming patterns, many of which can be quite obscure but which offer evidence (sometimes a lot, sometimes a little) as to relationships and the circles in which people moved. Those circles at times can be extremely surprising, unexpected and interesting.

You add the sum of the evidence, and say, this is potentially correct, but in some cases can also point to different people - and when evidence surfaces you are wrong - you start the process again.

You can't go on a single stream of evidence - baptisms for example. It is the sum of many streams of evidence.

And evidence is just that, evidence.

I suggest you read Mansell's research - there is no one who is an intimately familiar with that entire population as is he.

This is the link to Cape Mothers - http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/RemarkableWriting/UL14CapeMothers.pdf

Delia, in 2012 Behar et al. suggested that the new Reconstructed Sapiens Reference Sequence (RSRS) be used. Since then the mtDNA phylogenetic tree has had a major facelift with build 16 introducing the L0a2a2a1 subclade in February of 2014.

The 2004 and 2010 articles I mentioned were not updated until late in 2010 to L0a2a2 (see updated phylogeny in my first post).

Currently GenBank reports 12 samples updated to build 16 as L0a2a2a1, of which none originate from Zambia.

http://haplogroup.org/mtdna/rsrs/l0/l0abfgk/l0abfg/l0abg/l0ag/l0a/l...

And none from east India. One from Namibia - significant. Those in US and Mexico - African origin strong possibility, and if so, also very significant. As I said before, it is up to the people who manage Catharina Wagenmakers. If you don't want to delink them, your choice.

Thank-you for Mansell's article Delia. From what I see there are a few connections he uses to connect CW and CvP.

It would be prudent to wait for another test result before making any changes.

The Namibian L0a2a2a1 is a South African who has asked to remain anonymous. His mtDNA lineage is unknown and he is not on Geni.

The Yemeni L0a2a2 and Dawoodi Bohra Indian match was published in 2010 when L0a2a2a did not yet exist as a branch. In a more recent study (before 2014) three L0a2a2a individuals from Oman, Yemen, and Saudi-Arabia were discovered. The same haplotype has been discovered in commercial test participants who have subsequently been designated L0a2a2a1 (FTDNA) with Middle Eastern origins.

The Mexican and Domenican L0a2a2a1 (Geno 2.0) together with the Middle Eastern (FTDNA) provide compelling evidence that this particular branch was involved in the trans-atlantic slave trade.

The Yemeni-Indian link provides us with confirmation that L0a2a2 (2010) migrated into the south asian sub-continent. Increased phylogenetic resolution has provided us with a Yemeni (including Oman and Saudi Arabia) L0a2a2a. Recent commercial testing suggests that the Middle Eastern and Indian L0a2a2, as well as the Middle Eastern L0a2a2a haplotypes are in fact L0a2a2a1.

The Bohra in India 2001 census data
https://www.google.co.za/search?q=bohra+india&prmd=minv&sou...:

Following the population movements from South India to Pakistan and the Indian-Pakistan border... strong traces of the prominence of the Bohra community in South India, including the Tamil Nadu... remain up to this day. This despite the historic conflict that took place.

A recent study (2015) found the 3 Zambian L0a2a2a samples to be L0a2a2a2.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.01...

Thanks for the links Alex - I'll write something up in due course.

I'm not seeing a lot of strong evidence that Catharina Wagenmakers, SM is the biological daughter of Catharina "Groote Catrijn" van Paliacatta, SM/PROG, but I haven't had a chance to look closely. Private User, can you also take a look? Private User - is your feeling that the likelihood is sufficiently strong to keep it, despite Delia's misgivings?

Can we designate Catharina Wagenmakers, SM as L0a2a2a1? This is important on its own, if we're happy the line to her is sufficiently well sourced.

The origin of the three original L0a2 individuals belonging to the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community is Tamil Nadu. This article was published by Eaaswarkhanth et al. in 2008, before subhaplogrouping of L0a2 was introduced.
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s11568-009-9096-3.pdf

In 2009, Eaaswarkhanth et al. updated the haplogroup by adding 2 more branches from L0a2 to L0a2a2.
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v18/n3/full/ejhg2009168a.html?fo...

GenBank link to the Eaaswarkhanth et al. samples from India: http://haplogroup.org/mtdna/rsrs/l0/l0abfgk/l0abfg/l0abg/l0ag/l0a/l...

The Siddi Indian community from North Karnataka were found to have some L0a2. They are primarily Suffi Muslims. To my knowledge, further suhaplogrouping was not done on this study sample.
http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/96210/14/14_concl...

The L0a2a2, L0a2a2a and L0a2a2a1 individuals follow:

DQ112848.2 Kivisild L0a2a2 18-OCT-2006
FJ157838 Eaaswarkhanth L0a2a2 31-AUG-2009
FJ157839 Eaaswarkhanth L0a2a2 31-AUG-2009
FJ157840 Eaaswarkhanth L0a2a2 31-AUG-2009
23andMe Surname: Young L0a2a2

DQ112689.3 (Dominican Rep) Kivisild L0a2a2a 18-OCT-2006
DQ112953.2 (Asia) Kivisild L0a2a2a 18-OCT-2006
DQ341058 (Dominican Rep) Torroni L0a2a2a 05-MAY-2009

EF184605 (Tanzania) Gonder L0a2a2a 18-APR-2007
EF657286 mtDNA149 Herrnstadt L0a2a2a 14-JUL-2007
EU092701 (L335 Mozambique) Behar L0a2a2a 14-MAY-2008

EU092745 (L380 Saudi Arabia) Behar L0a2a2a 14-MAY-2008
EU092787 (L436 Oman) Behar L0a2a2a 14-MAY-2008
EU092925 (L587 Oman) Behar L0a2a2a 14-MAY-2008
JQ705109 Behar L0a2a2a 07-APR-2012

KC533465 (South Africa) vd Walt L0a2a2a 06-MAY-2013
KC533479 (South Africa) vd Walt L0a2a2a 06-MAY-2013
KC533495 (South Africa) vd Walt L0a2a2a 06-MAY-2013
KC533509 (South Africa) vd Walt L0a2a2a 06-MAY-2013

van der Walt, E.M., Smuts,I., Taylor,R.W., Elson,J.L., Turnbull,D.M., Louw,R. and van der Westhuizen,F.H. 'Characterization of mtDNA variation in a cohort of South African paediatric patients with mitochondrial disease.

KC622056 (Khoisan) Barbieri L0a2a2a 22-DEC-2013
KC622064 (Khoisan) Barbieri L0a2a2a 22-DEC-2013
KC622187 (Khoisan) Barbieri L0a2a2a 22-DEC-2013
KC622249 (Khoisan) Barbieri L0a2a2a 22-DEC-2013

KF672819 (Mozambique Moz296) Rito L0a2a2a 19-NOV-2013
KF672824 (Sao Tome STP1) Rito L0a2a2a 19-NOV-2013
KF672825 (Somalia Som35) Rito L0a2a2a 19-NOV-2013
KF672832 (Mozambique Moz347) Rito L0a2a2a 19-NOV-2013
KF672835 (Somalia Som92) Rito L0a2a2a 19-NOV-2013

KM986563 (Yemen) Vyas L0a2a2a 21-MAR-2015
KM986565 (Yemen) Vyas L0a2a2a 21-MAR-2015
KM986569 (Yemen) Vyas L0a2a2a 21-MAR-2015
KM986580 (Yemen) Vyas L0a2a2a 21-MAR-2015
KM986599 (Yemen) Vyas L0a2a2a 21-MAR-2015
KM986609 (Yemen) Vyas L0a2a2a 21-MAR-2015
KM986624 (Yemen) Vyas L0a2a2a 21-MAR-2015

KJ669113 (Zimbabwe) Chan L0a2a2a 08-APR-2015
KJ669118 (Namibia) Chan L0a2a2a 08-APR-2015
KJ669119 (Namibia) Chan L0a2a2a 08-APR-2015
KP635243 (Bolivia) Heinz L0a2a2a 23-AUG-2015

KJ669122 (Namibia) Chan L0a2a2a1 08-APR-2015
KJ669123 (Namibia) Chan L0a2a2a1 08-APR-2015
JX303835 (Zambia) Barbieri L0a2a2a1 26-AUG-2012
23andMe Name: Derick-2371 L0a2a2a1

The Chan et al. (2015) samples from Namibia and Zimbabwe that were L0a2a2a and L0a2a2a1 (five complete genomes) were reported to have been of non-Khoisan/non-Khoesan heritage. This article suggests mixed ancestry but does not go to any lengths indicating the identities of these study participants that were L0a2a2a1.

Chan EKF, Hardie R-A, Petersen DC, Beeson K, Bornman RMS, Smith AB, et al. (2015) Revised Timeline and Distribution of the Earliest Diverged Human Maternal Lineages in Southern Africa. PLoS ONE 10(3): e0121223. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0121223

An ongoing (2017) mtDNA study of African lineages on Madagascar found a total of 79 L0a2a2a individuals. The data included 1023 participants that belonged to haplogroup L. There were no L0a2a2a1 participants found.
http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2017/07/12/1704906114.DCSupplemen...

In a 2015 study focusing on the legacy of the transatlantic slave trade. Numerous L0a2a2a individuals were found. These participants were from the Dominican Republic, USA, Oman, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Kenya and Mozambique.

In this study only one participant from the USA was found to be L0a2a2a1.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4532489/

Sharon Doubell, the mtDNA lineage leading up to Catharina Wagenmakers appears to be well documented.

Another mtDNA test is needed to confirm this.
https://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Wagenmakers-8/890

As Delia stated, Catharina van Paliacatta was placed as the mother-candidate and now the www has taken this as fact. It is not possible at this point to say that CvP is not the mother. Mansell Upham mentions a few points that make the maternal link quite plausible.

If we break the maternal connection we need more than the L0a2a2a1 result as this mtDNA haplogroup appears to be a transatlantic slave trade marker and is possibly also a Muslim Indian marker.

I recommend we keep the maternal link until the evidence says otherwise.

I am of mixed heritage. Both of my parents have relatives from South Africa. I have not been able to get into my dads german records because my tablet is not working well. My parents are directly related to each other. I need to get into these german records in order to find the connection.

I've moved the mtDNA description to Catharina Wagenmakers' Curator note - and added Catharina van Paliacatta as 'possible mother' on both Curator Notes.

Anney, You are my 19th cousin some what removed. look at the attached link. maybe it can be of some help.

Anney Cress-Dailey

Anney Cress-Dailey Anney I think this is the right one

Just to throw a spanner in the works - in all my family research I have found I am descended from 5 "slaves" - Catherine Wagenmakers (married Andries Beyers), Johanna van Madras (married Gerrit Romondt), Eva van de Kaap (married Carl Pruysser), Sophia van die Kaap (m Johann Greifenstein), Christina de Vogel (married Joachim Kannemeyer). I have had my DNA tested (the autosomal test offered by Ancestry.com) and oddly enough it has pulled up zero % Indian blood in me. I do however have a bit of Middle Eastern & Caucasus blood & very oddly, 1% Pacific Islands & 1% Senegalese. My question is: just because a slaves surname was van Madras, doesn't necessarily mean she was from Madras. She could have been a woman of Middle Eastern descent who was taken into slavery and at some point lived in Madras from where she was taken to the Cape. So her surname became van Madras. I am not stating a fact here, merely posing a question. So - just because CvP had the surname, may not mean she was in fact an Indian woman from Paliacatta. Or am I totally wrong in this? I would love to do the mtDNA test but my maternal line has nothing to do with any of the above - all my slave blood was from my father's side, so I guess it won't be of assistance in this discussion. Love these discussions - so interesting!

Hi Nicola. Thank-you for your comment. Your slave ancestors are not going to make a significant contribution to your autosomal DNA results mainly because of the following:

1. They lived too long ago and therefore make up a miniscule portion of your aDNA (in percentage terms).

2. Your specific slave ancestors may have been less common in your other direct ancestors and therefore not as widespread within the general community of ancestors from which you descend. This would suggest that crossover may have wiped out a portion of your slave genetic heritage and replaced it with non-slave genetic markers.

3. Genetic drift: This is when isolation and random mutations change a portion of code along the autosome and following generations continue along a different genetic path that differs from the DNA ancestor, making the future code unrecognizable or incomparable to the original ancestral code.

4. Eurasian DNA markers have a recent connection. The same markers that have not altered significantly due to drift can be common in European and West/Central/South Asian individuals. Ancestral calculators call the same markers differently depending on the other percentages found. Some slave ancestors with Asian origins happen to have more of these 'common' Eurasian markers that, depending on the ancestry calculator, DNA company and the rest of your ancestral heritage could be designated either European or Asian. The threshold for giving an autosomal marker a geographical designation is very low. Not your 95%/5% significance threshold used in quantitative research.

5. Any combination of the above.