Jacques Pinard, SV/PROG - Primary Sources for parents?

Neither of these two reputable sites have found the link either: http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g7/p7608.htm and http://www.ballfamilyrecords.co.uk/dutoit/I316.html.

This page is being cited as the Source for the parents: http://huguenots-france.org/france/loire/nantes/pag2.htm#44 (I think it's yourr addition to the About, Ds. Matthys Gerhardus Müller)

----- PINEAU, Jacques
PINEAU, Jacob Gender: Male
Birth: before 1649
Death: after September 19, 1660
Occupation: Escuyer, Sieur de Bois briand or Boisbriands

Family Pineau - JOLAN; JOLLAN
Marriage: 06 August 1665 at 44, Blain ER,, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE
JOLAN; JOLLAN, Marthe Gender: Female
Birth: before 1652

The 6 children of the PINEAU - JOLAN couple ;

1. PINEAU, Jacques Sex: Male
Birth: June 18, 1666 at, Villoin,
Baptism: June 29, 1666 at 44, Blain ER ,, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE
Godfather (Paternal Uncle) PINEAU, Henry
Godmother JOLAN, Suzanne

2. PINEAU, Pierre Sex: Male
Birth: January 26, 1668 at, Villoin,
Baptism: February 06, 1668 at 44, Blain ER ,, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE
Godmother JOLLAN; JOLAN, Renée
Death: September 16, 1670 at, Villoin,
Burial: September 16, 1670 at 44, Blain ER ,, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE

3. PINEAU, Marthe Sex: Female
Birth: March 11, 1669 at, Villoin,
Baptism: March 11, 1669 at 44, Blain ER ,, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE
Godfather JOLLAN, Pierre
Godmother LUZEAU; LUSEAU, Marthe
Death: April 29, 1669 at, Villoin,
Burial: April 30, 1669 at 44, Blain ER ,, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE

4. PINEAU, Marthe Gender: Female
Birth: October 21, 1670 at, Villoin,
Baptism: November 27, 1670 at 44, Blain ER, Villoin, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE
Godfather (Grandfather) PINEAU, Jacques
Godmother (German cousin) PINEAU, Marguerite

5. PINEAU, Anne Gender: Female
Birth: November 17, 1673
Baptism: December 03, 1673 at 44, Blain ER,, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE

6. PINEAU, Philippe Gender: Male
Birth: March 24, 1675
Baptism: April 15, 1675 at 44, Blain ER,, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE
Godmother PINEAU, Elisabeth
Death: April 26, 1675
Burial: April 26, 1675 at 44, Blain ER,, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE

Crucially (I think) is the fact that Pieter Coertzen in 'The Huguenots of South Africa 1688-1988' (28 Wale Street, Cape Town: Tafelberg Publishers Limited, 1988), p. 167
shows the South African Jacques Pinard as born in 1665 in La Fontaine-sous-Prémont, France

and not 1. PINEAU, Jacques born June 18, 1666 at, Villoin, Baptism: June 29, 1666 at 44, Blain ER ,, LOIRE ATLANTIQUE

Coertzen doesn't provide his sources, but there is no reason I can see right now to assume that the Jacques Pineau b 18 Jun 1666 in Villoin, married an Esther Fouche or emigrated to the Cape.

Pending us finding sources, I'm removing these parents and RLing the Progenitor.

It would be quite fantastic to find the parents of my / our 10th great grandfather - but I'd pefer not to close down the search by linking him to the wrong parents just because we wish itwould be so.

Let's search for the primary sources that prove this together.

The closest connection I can find so far is this line to the fourche family - but in 1752: 'On June 19, 1752, Pierre Pineau sold the seigneury of Vilhouin to Armand-Paul FOURCHÉ, lord of Quéhillac and Villefrégon.'

cf
PINEAU (1666 - 1752)

The PINEAU family, originally from Blain, acquired the seigniory of Vilhouin to establish its recent nobility; and it was out of allegiance to their powerful lords of Blain, the Rohan, that the Pineau adopted, temporarily, the reformed religion.
Jacob Pineau married on August 6, 1665, at Pont-Piétin, a Protestant stronghold in Belgium, Marthe JOLLAN, daughter of Daniel Jollan de Clerville. After the revocation of the Edict of Nantes, the Pineau hastened to return to the Catholic religion. Thus, on May 16, 1690, Jacques Pineau, son of Jacob Pineau and Anne LEROY, was baptized in the church of Bouvron which never went to the Reformation.

He will succeed Alexandre Pineau, married to Claude GALLET, who will be buried in Bouvron in August 1731. On June 19, 1752, Pierre Pineau sold the seigneury of Vilhouin to Armand-Paul FOURCHÉ, lord of Quéhillac and Villefrégon.
In 1863, the lawyer René WALDECK-ROUSSEAU will buy Vilhouin; he will demolish the old building to build an imposing mansion where his son Pierre Waldeck-Rousseau will stay. The house will be destroyed during the Pocket of Saint-Nazaire. As for the Saint Guillaume seigneurial chapel, it has long since disappeared http://www.bouvron-haute-bretagne.fr/bouvron%20et%20ses%20villages....

cf https://www.geni.com/discussions/172937?msg=1363127 where Hester Margaretha Van der Walt on 6/10/2017 at 4:44 PM says
"According to information that I have gathered Jacques Pinard does not stem from the Pineau family in France, but from the Pinard family originally from Brittany. A part of the family relocated out of Brittany establishing itself in succeeding generations in Maine, the Vendomois, the Blesois, Upper Normandy and the Pays chartrain. Our Ancestor Jacques Pinard worshipped at La Fontaine-sous-Premont near Dreux, a temple serving several neighbouring communities, among them Cher- izy according to my research, but he was also at one stage worshipping at L'Aigle. Jacques Pinard presented an attestation from L’Aigle to the Walloon church authorities of Amsterdam on October 13, 1686.

I welcome any comments or other information should there be any to clarify Jacques Pinard's true origins."

Hello everyone

Does any of this help us, there are a number of sources cited here?

http://hanekom.org/tng/getperson.php?personID=I9999&tree=tree1

Thank you all
Matthew

I did find a document ... see from page 112

.Cape settlers I: from the Loire to the Channel
PDF by M Boucher

http://uir.unisa.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10500/19477/Boucher__M__086...

Private User - what are you seeing in Bouher that I am missing?
No Marthe Jollan in any spelling variation.

Also here: http://hanekom.org/tng/getperson.php?personID=I9999&tree=tree - no sources for Marthe Jollan and Jacques Pineau.

Sharon Doubell this one once translated says
Parents : Jacob Pineau and Marthe JOLAN with Godparents Hendry PINEUA and Suzanne JOLLAN as hm being child 1

http://huguenots-france.org/france/loire/nantes/pag2.htm#44

This one parents of Jacques PINARD Father Jacues PINEAU ( Jacob) and Martha JOLAN.

If load shedding don't start I will also look into the very reputable Hugenote 100 jaar

But do feel unless we get real sources e.g. Birth certificate, baptism certificate we should leave as is. as many, many users have this family as ancestors.☺

Judi

http://hanekom.org/tng/getperson.php?personID=I9999&tree=tree1
Sorry see you already have it.

Judi - we're looking for the primary sources. None here: http://hanekom.org/tng/getperson.php?personID=I9999&tree=tree1

http://huguenots-france.org/france/loire/nantes/pag2.htm#44 - Nothing on this page that connects the SA Prog to this family at all.

Sharon Doubell perhaps the question of "nothing" should rather be what have these known ancestors (for they existed - not in dispute at all) left in FRANCE/EUROPE since then, why are there no other descendants trying to claim their profiles, rather than finding obscure and probably non-existing sources inaccessible to most here. We have over 100k here trying to claim them via sources spanning 4 centuries (up to them).

This is a more reasonable question (why is there no-one else / why is there nothing in France) I think and a tactic that should be viable not only in this instance. Or are you suggestion that the "pure" French are not interested in their ancestors?

I'm not following you at all.

The link to these two parents does not appear to be accepted by historians at all.

This has nothing to do with the pure? Fench. There appears, as for so many of our Huguenot progenitors, to have been no record of parents.

RE"what have these known ancestors (for they existed - not in dispute at all) left in FRANCE/EUROPE" - I'm really not getting this

1. That the SA prog had parents isn't in dispute.

2. That Jacques Pinaeu & Marthe Jollan existed isn't in dispute.

The reason to link 1 and 2 is the question that needs explanation.

If I may add some comments here are I have extensively searched French Huguenot notarial records from the Saint-Jean-du-Gard region. Many of these have been transcribed and many have important clues, but the record is patchy. Records have been lost or destroyed due to revolutions and wars. What we find is that many Huguenots fled or died trying to flee from France and the few that remained had to convert to Catholic. You may want to look for Pinard on Geneatnet as they have many French trees.

Crucially, Premont and Blain are at opposite ends of France.

And Pinard in France is a completely different surname to Pineau. Other Pinards emigrated from France in the 1600s - so they existed with that surname at the time.

May I add to the confusion? I know a Pinard family in Ottawa, but have not asked about their ancestors. Is this of interest?

Sharon Doubell - what I am saying is that there should be 100k+/1m| French people claiming these their ancestors from France. The lack of evidence (complains from France/French) tend to suggest that they are our South African ancestors...

Would be interested to know the few Historicans who tend to disagree with this...

Sharon Doubell found these but don't understand or can read French. A few Jacques here. Still not the same dates I am sorry.☺

Judi

NB If I don't come back quickly we are being hit hard by load shedding. Yesterday a stretch running all the time from 3 pm till 11 pm. At this stage all our generators runs at our business so no electricity here at home. ☺

Sorry the link.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?givenname=Jacob&...

And here are some with the spelling PINARD. Again French.☺
https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?givenname=Jacob&...

Jan, I still don't undersatand you. http://huguenots-france.org/france/loire/nantes/pag2.htm#44 This isn't a South African site.

Regarding the historians - Coerzen doesn't find parents. Neither Has Richard Ball or the FFYP. Which historians have you found that agree with it?

Thanks Judi. So there were lots of Jacques Pineaus and Jacques Pinards at the time.

Mimi - the Pienaar in Ottawa 's family origin would be interesting.

Actually he is Robert Pinard, who was one my technicians years ago. I will try to call him tomorrow if he is still alive and find out how much he knows about his family's origin. I think they have lived in the Ottawa Valley for some time. By the way, he speaks no French, just English. Of course there are also many French-speaking Canadians with English/Irish names such as O'Brien.

Also, if you want quick reads of any French documents - no problem. Just the time to do it.
Louis

:-)