Mariamne III - Was Mariamne III also 'Aria Major'?

Started by Sharon Doubell on Friday, March 23, 2012
Showing all 5 posts
3/23/2012 at 2:05 AM

In ‘Pedigree and Progress’ Wagner 'names this woman as Mariamne III 'the Elder' Arria b c 5BCE
but the only description of an 'Arria Major' I can find is a Wikipedia one of a rather suicidally inclined woman, who doesn't seem to easily fit the description of Mariamne III, the Hasmonean Princess.

Still, this area of history can be murky, and Herod's Judeaen family did have a tendency to 'Romanise'

Interesting?

All research findings on this are welcome, and can be logged below as well as on the profile, for future reference,

3/23/2012 at 2:06 AM

Wikipedia's Mariamne III description:

Mariamne III was a daughter of Aristobulus IV and Berenice.

She had three brothers, Herod of Chalcis, Herod Agrippa I, and Aristobulus V, and one sister, Herodias.

Aristobulus IV was the son of King Herod and Mariamne I, a Hasmonaean princess related to the renowned Judas Maccabaeus.

Some time after the death of her father in 7 BCE, Mariamne III was betrothed to Antipater II, her uncle and the eldest son of King Herod.

After Antipater's execution in 4 BCE, she may have been the first wife of another uncle, Herod Archelaus, ethnarch of Judea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariamne_III

3/23/2012 at 2:09 AM

Wikipedia's Arria Major description:

Arria (also Arria Major) was a woman in ancient Rome. Her husband Caecina Paetus was ordered by the emperor Claudius to commit suicide for his part in a rebellion but was not capable of forcing himself to do so. Arria wrenched the dagger from him and stabbed herself, then returned it to her husband, telling him that it didn't hurt ("Non dolet, Paete!"). Her story was recorded in the letters of Pliny the Younger, who obtained his information from Arria's granddaughter, Fannia.

Pliny records that Arria's son died at the same time as Caecina Paetus was quite ill. She apparently arranged and planned the child's funeral without her husband even knowing of his death. Every time she visited her husband Arria told him that the boy was improving. If emotion threatened to get the better of her she excused herself from the room and would, in Pliny's words, "give herself to sorrow," then return to her husband with a calm demeanor.

After the rebellion against Claudius led by Lucius Arruntius Camillus Scribonianus in 42. AD, Scribonianus was killed and Caecina was taken to Rome as a prisoner for conspiring with him. Arria begged the captain of the ship to allow her to join him on board. She claimed that if a consular Roman man was allowed slaves to take care of him, then she should save them the trouble and look after him herself. The captain refused, so Arria followed the great ship in a small fishing boat all the way to Rome.

Arria openly attacked the wife of the rebellion leader Scribonianus for giving evidence to the prosecution, crying:
"Am I to listen to you who could go on living after Scribonianus died in your arms?"
It was this sentence which alerted everyone to her intention of dying alongside Paetus.
Her son-in-law, Thrasea, attempted to persuade her to live, asking her if she would want her own daughter to kill herself if he were sentenced to death. Arria insisted that she would if her daughter (also called Arria) had lived as long and happily with Thrasea as she herself had with Caecina.

She was watched very closely from that point onwards but, realising this, Arria said that they could not stop her from dying. Having pointed this out she ran, head first, in to a wall and knocked herself out cold. When she came to, she cried:
"I told you I would do it the hard way if you stopped me from doing it the easy way."

Arria was eventually permitted to join her husband in a "noble death" (falling on one's own sword/dagger).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arria

3/23/2012 at 2:16 AM

Wikipedia's references do not overlap.

Those to Mariamne III use Josephus http://www.interhack.net/projects/library/wars-jews/b2c7.html as saying that the the first wife of Herod Archelaus was named Mariamne; but not designating which Mariamne.

Those to Arria Major reference Pliny the Younger: Letters 3.16. AD 97/107.

Is there a possible overlap of characters? Or is the wrong Mariamne being assumed from Josephus?

4/9/2012 at 11:39 AM

An article http://www.stoa.org/diotima/anthology/wlgr/wlgr-publiclife170.shtml referencing Pliny - http://www.bartleby.com/9/4/1034.html which links Arria Elder as the mother of Arria Younger; mother of Fannia.
Arria Elder's husband was Cæcinna Pætus (which is not any of the 3: Antipater III; Herod Archelaus; or Titus Falavius Sabinus II - given by Wagner).

Showing all 5 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion