Christian Magnus Magnusson Von Der Pahlen - Father

Started by Private User on Sunday, March 16, 2014
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Private User
3/16/2014 at 3:45 PM

Johanna Amnelin wrote me saying...

"Hello, there is a major mistake in my tree, this person http://www.geni.com/people/Christian-Magnus-Magnusson-Von-Der-Pahle... his father has been wrong, his father is Carlk de la Motte, how can I correct this to my tree? Im not the manager of the profile.

Carl de la Motte, natural. de la Motte (son av Samson de la Mötte, Tab. 1), till Lahis. Var kornett vid Åbo läns kavalleriregemente 1637 och löjtnant 1639. Natural. svensk adelsman 1642 och ä ättens vägnar introducerad s. å. under nr 280. Ryttmästare vid Viborgs läns kavalleriregemente 1643. Major 1647. Död 1653 Och begraven i Sääksmäki kyrka 1654-02-05. För honom resolverades i rådet 1634-07-18 att på riddarhuset skulle lämnas plats, till dess han från Frankrike förskaffat sig bevis, idet hans fader varit av adel. Gift med Gertrud von Engelhard, begraven 1659 i Sääksmäki kyrka, dotter av Casper von Engelhard och Barbara von Fulden.
Barn:
Catharina, levde 1688 på Paaso i Heinola socken. Gift 1:o med kornetten
Evert Johan Ållongren i Finland, nr 115, död 1666. Gift 2:o med
regementskvartermästaren Christian Magnus von der Pahlen, död omkring
1694."

Please discuss sources and the error and I will be happy to help make any necessary changes.

Tag Managers: Jouni Johannes Ruohonen, Private User, Private User

Here is a translation to English via Google:
"Carl de la Motte, naturalism. de la Motte (son of Samson de la Motte, Tab. 1), to Lahis. Be the cornet at the Abo cavalry regiment in 1637 and lieutenant in 1639. Natural. Swedish nobleman 1642 and ä modes behalf of introduced P. å under No. 280. Captain at the Viborg county cavalry regiment in 1643. Major 1647. Died in 1653 and buried in Sääksmäki church 1654-02-05. For him were resolved at Council 1634-07-18 that the nobles would be given place, until he procured from France itself evidence, den his father was of nobility. Married to Gertrud von Engelhard, buried in 1659 in Sääksmäki church, daughter of Casper von Engelhard and Barbara von Fulden.
children:
Catharina lived in 1688 at Paaso in Heinola parish. Married 1st with Cornet
Evert Johan Ållongren in Finland, No. 115, died in 1666. Married 2: o with
regimental quartermaster Christian Magnus von der Pahlen, died about
In 1694. "

3/16/2014 at 9:17 PM

Yes a fellow genealogist contacted me about this, Christian Magnus is our ancestor

here is what a genealogist send me by email
"Mm. Geni-sivustolla oleva tieto hänen isästään
ja isoisästään ei voi pitää paikkaansa.
Reinhold ei voi olla isä eikä Richard isoisä.
Vuosiluvuista pojan ja isoisän syntymäero on
27 vuotta ja isoisoisän 44 vuotta ja aikaisemmin
Christianin äidiksi oli merkitty nainen, joka
olisi poikaansa nuorempi.
Minä en ole asiantuntija, mutta monet ovat
sitä mieltä, että asetelma ei toimi."

(For example Geni site, the information about her father
and his grandfather can not be true.
Reinhold can not be the father and Richard the grandfather.
the years between a son and a grandfather is only 27 years
and 44 years earlier
Christian's mother was a marked to be a woman who
would be the younger than her son.
I'm not an expert, but many
think that will not work.)

I found this thread from Finnish genealogist forum::
it says that Christian is the son of Carl de la Motte, who ever can read Finnish can read it here
http://suku.genealogia.fi/showthread.php?t=250

also it says Christian Magnus is the son of Magnus Wolter vd Pahlen's son

"Görlitz 1929, löytyy viittaus kyllä rykmenttiskriivari Kristian Magnus v d Pahleniin (1666-1694), jossa esitetään epäröivästi hänen olevan aikaisemmin esittämäni maaneuvos Magnus v d Pahlenin (Stammt II) poika.

Ja vastoin sitä tietoa, että Iso-Kyrössä 17.2.1714 kuollut kpt Wolter Magnus v d Pahlen olisi Kristian v d Pahlenin ja Catarina de la Motten poika, arvellaan hänen olleen sen Wolter Magnus v d Pahlenin poika, joka oli Ewstschanzen linnakkeen komentaja 1656-60 ja Pähkinälinnan käskynhaltija 1668.

Isokyrössä 1714 kaatuneen kpt Wolter Magnus v d Pahlenin ja Anna Maria Schildtin poikana pidän sitä majuri Wolter Magnus v d Pahlenia, joka kuoli Virossa 1758."

(Görlitz, 1929, can be found a reference that says Kristian Magnus vd Pahlén (1666-1694), is the son of Magnus vd Pahlén (Stammt II). )

So who is his father then??

Private User
3/16/2014 at 11:48 PM

I think that there is a major mistake in generation for von der Pahlen. Gertrud W is not Christian´s husband. Peter T. made a lot there. We must make a major so that generation will become right.
We all dont know still who is Wolter´s parents. We know only this, who is Wolter von der Pahlen, whose wife is Anna. We together must research it.

Private User
3/16/2014 at 11:53 PM

I agree with it: "Christian Magnus is our ancestor

here is what a genealogist send me by email
"Mm. Geni-sivustolla oleva tieto hänen isästään
ja isoisästään ei voi pitää paikkaansa.
Reinhold ei voi olla isä eikä Richard isoisä.
Vuosiluvuista pojan ja isoisän syntymäero on
27 vuotta ja isoisoisän 44 vuotta ja aikaisemmin
Christianin äidiksi oli merkitty nainen, joka
olisi poikaansa nuorempi.
Minä en ole asiantuntija, mutta monet ovat
sitä mieltä, että asetelma ei toimi."

(For example Geni site, the information about her father
and his grandfather can not be true.
Reinhold can not be the father and Richard the grandfather.
the years between a son and a grandfather is only 27 years
and 44 years earlier
Christian's mother was a marked to be a woman who
would be the younger than her son.
I'm not an expert, but many
think that will not work.)"

Private User
3/18/2014 at 6:22 AM

After reviewing this a bit, I don't think message you received reflects that Christian Magnus von der Pahlen is the son of Maj. Carl de la Motte, till Lahis. Maj. Carl de la Motte, till Lahis is the father of Christian Magnus von der Pahlen's wife Catharina Carlsdotter de la Motte. The message says Maj. Carl de la Motte, till Lahis married Gertrud von Engelhardt and their daughter Catharina Carlsdotter de la Motte married 2: Christian Magnus von der Pahlen.

As Private User stated, the timeline for Christian Magnus von der Pahlen being the son of Unknown Profile is difficult, though perhaps biologically feasible.

I'm having difficulty translating the link Johanna Amnelin, but it seems that it describes Magnus Wolter vd Pahlen as the father of Wolter Magnus vd Pahlenin (-1714), Christian Magnus 1669-94, Kaspar Magnus in 1649 and 1702, Richard Magnus von der Pahlen.

Private User
3/18/2014 at 8:44 AM

Child:
1. Christian Magnus (Magnusson) von der Pahlen, s. n. 1646 Lill Tulola.

Christian´s father is Magnus (Jürgensson) von der Pahlen (Aus Sepkül, Eck, Överbeck und Podis, Livl. Landr. schw. ObtLt., s. n.
1602 Sepkull, d. n. 1648 Pernau, n. 46 years old. I wife Elisaberth Schmölling.
II wife: Margareta (Jürgensdotter) von Üexküll (a. d, H. Limmat)
Child: Christian

Magnus`s father is Jürgen. JOhan is Jürgen´s father. Reinhold is Johan´s father.

Gertrud Konrad´s daughter is wrong, is not wife. Margareta von Uëxkull is Magnus´s wife.

I got this information from my 5.-6. cousin who research generations. I tried remove paths in Geni, but it didn´t work, Because I am not von der Pahlen´s manager in Geni. Anybody can know perhaps a lot of generation as me.

Private User
3/18/2014 at 12:27 PM

Please verify that is correct.

3/19/2014 at 1:57 AM

Jeff !

Happy with above answers ??

Brgds

Fredrich

3/20/2014 at 2:53 AM

I think it is correct now

Private User
3/20/2014 at 3:35 AM

I ask you who is Jürgen´s wife? Jürgen von der Pahlen, a. Sepkull(Pale)
Syntynyt: 1568
Sepkull ?
Kuoli: 1602 (34)

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