Ælfgifu - Not documented as wife of Hardeknut

Started by Harald Tveit Alvestrand on Sunday, April 27, 2014
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4/27/2014 at 2:41 AM

In a long discussion on Gorm den Gamle (Gorm "den Gamle", dansk konge), I think it's been established that we don't have any source giving the name of his father Hardeknut's spouses. I've therefore taken the liberty of disconnecting Ælfigu's profile from Hardeknut.

This has the side effect of leaving the two children named here (for which we also have no sources) fatherless.
Please discuss before considering reconnection!

4/27/2014 at 2:45 AM

Just a technical point in a merge environment. Difficult to work with a "single parent" profile unfortunately. Possible if one child, but if more than one, the "invisible parents" proliferate.

4/27/2014 at 2:47 AM

Yup, I hope the children can get new parents soon (if they exist at all; if there's no documentation on them, I don't care what happens to them).

4/27/2014 at 2:51 AM

they both need to be moved to hardeknud or disconnected completely

4/27/2014 at 4:11 AM

Jason Scott Wills that's 2 of the 3 obvious alternatives I want to choose between (the 3rd being leaving them as children of Ælfugifu, but with a different father).

I'm not in a hurry, though.

4/27/2014 at 4:30 AM

Another problem with Ælfigu: She's married to Harald II "Parcus", king of Sjælland (who I can find no data on), but she's also the mother of Frodi [Vi] Hardeknudson - who's Harald II "Parcus"' father.

More cutting needed. Does anyone have any information on a legendary line of kings of Sjælland?

4/27/2014 at 4:34 AM

I do somewhere. Need to digg though.

4/27/2014 at 4:55 AM

This tree is amusing. A few generations down one finds a guy named "Audun Skokule" - this name occurs on the Web only in online genealogies.

Sounds like a great target for removal!

Private User
4/27/2014 at 9:28 AM

@Harald Tveit Alvestrand .. Audun Skokule - is the settler Auðunn Skökull Bjornsson

Bjorn, father of Audunn was the son of "Hund-Steinar" who was an earl in England. Mother of Audunn was Alof, daughter of Ragnar Lodbrok. They had also the children Isgerdur and Eirikur.

Audun's first wife is unknown - but with her he had the daughter Thora Moshals, mother of Ulfhild who was the mother of Asta who was the mother of Olaf den Hellige.

His second wife was Thordis Thorgrimsdottir. ,,,,
Here is a link to an Icelandic page with info's on these people: http://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Au%C3%B0unn_sk%C3%B6kull_Bjarnarson

4/27/2014 at 11:17 AM

Private User that is why I love Geni so much - mysteries unravel so easily when we find the right persons to share the question with!

Is this person documented in Landnamabok?

Is it the same guy as Auðun Bjarnason Skökull who is an MP on Geni?

I'm itching to merge him - just want to check that I'm doing it right!

4/27/2014 at 12:19 PM

Hehe - I think I found where the name comes from.

Emma Ælfgifu of Normandy - she was married to the OTHER Hardaknut!

4/27/2014 at 12:23 PM

Grr..... Jason Scott Wills, did you just merge another one into this profile?

Somehow her "about me" has disappeared.

Private User
4/27/2014 at 12:55 PM

@Harald Tveit Alvestrand - YES he is the same I sincerely doubt that he had other children than are listed with him in the article on wikipedia.

Private User
4/27/2014 at 1:05 PM

@Harald Tveit Alvestrand - here is a link to the settlers in Iceland

4/27/2014 at 4:15 PM

Harald Tveit Alvestrand you write in your first message: " I think it's been established that we don't have any source giving the name of his father Hardeknut's spouses." His showing back to Gorm den gamle. Here it looks like Hardeknut is established (proven?) as being the father of Gorm den gamle, is that what you are telling us?

4/27/2014 at 10:18 PM

Remi Trygve Pedersen we do not have any source giving a conflicting theory, as far as I can tell, and we do have sources stating that his name was Hardeknut (or equivalents in Icelandic and Latin).

Separation of concerns .... if you want to discuss that some more, please do it in the Gorm discussion, where we have all the source mentions that people have done available upstream.

5/23/2014 at 3:06 AM

Alfifa (Ælgifu)

Knud den Stores elskerinde (frille), der var datter af den engelske stormand Ælfhelm af Deira. Hun fødte Knud sønnerne Harald Harefod og Svend.

5/23/2014 at 3:14 AM

Knud 1. den Store (Omkr. 1000 - 1035)

Konge af Danmark 1018-35, af England 1014-35 og af Norge 1028-35. Søn af Svend Tveskæg. Da faderen døde blev han hyldet af vikingehæren i England, men englænderne havde valgt Edmond Jernside til konge så Knud måtte de første to år sammen med kong Olaf af Norge og dennes bror Harald og kæmpe mod konge Edmund indtil denne blev besejret og Knud blev konge i England. Han forførte kong Olafs frille Alvine og Olaf afbrød krigssamarbejdet. I 1017 giftede han sig med Ethelred den Rådvildes enke Emma, der var datter af normannerhertugen Robert og Knuds søster Estrid giftede sig med hertugens bror Richard. Da han ikke selv kunne styre det store rige, delte han England i 4 jarledømmer, oprettede hirden Tinglid og hjemsendte hæren. Kong Olav af Norge og broderen Harald truede Knud med krig og i 1026 besejrede han den svenske og den norske konge ved Helgeån i Østskåne. Han støttede kirken og tog i 1027 til Rom og besøgte paven. I 1028 besejrede han Olav den Hellige fra Norge som måtte drage i landflygtighed, og indsatte i stedet sin søn med frillen Alfifa, Svend Alfifasøn som sin underkonge. Da hans søster Estrid blev fordrevet af svogeren Richard, måtte han også flygte ud af landet.
Han betragtede sig selv mest som konge over England og opholdt sig sjældent i Danmark. Han ligger begravet i domkirken i Winchester.

5/23/2014 at 9:46 AM

Ole Kristian Moustgaard what source are you quoting?

That seems to fit my comment above about where the name came from - but if those were her only children, that doesn't fit the names we have on this profile (Frode and Gudrid).

5/23/2014 at 10:37 AM

Frode og Gudrin kan være forkert?

5/23/2014 at 10:42 AM

Frode og Gudrin optræder ikke på profilen for Knud den store???

5/23/2014 at 10:45 AM

I 1017 giftede han sig med Ethelred den Rådvildes enke Emma, der var datter af normannerhertugen Robert og Knuds søster Estrid giftede sig med hertugens bror Richard.

Dette er korrekt og verificeret!

5/23/2014 at 10:46 AM

Ole Kristian Moustgaard this discussion, as you can tell from the subject line and the profile link in itallics at the top, is about the profile named Ælgifu that used to be listed as the wife of Hardeknut and the mother of Gorm.

She is listed with two children named Frode and Gudrid. We don't have a source for any of them.

Unknown Profile is the profile link.

5/24/2014 at 12:07 AM

Den jeg omtaler, er EMMA ÆLFGIFU - som er nævnt oppe i "Profiler nævnt"
- det kan være svært at kende forskel!

Private User
11/5/2014 at 1:43 PM

Ælfgifu / Alfgifu was concubine of Knut the great He had Harald harefoot with her
Harde-Knuts mother Was Emma.
See "Scandinavia Ancient and Modern Cap. 5 page 199

11/5/2014 at 3:17 PM

@Sigurður are you referring to this book?


This chapter seems to be the 9th century Ælfilgu, again - Emma Ælfgifu of Normandy

Nice reference, and freely available too!

11/6/2014 at 1:33 PM

I think he meens page 189 and the start of the chapter is not only about Emma but also about Ælfgifu whom I think Private User is mentioning as the concubine of Knut den store.

Private User
11/6/2014 at 2:21 PM

Yes Harald I am refering to that book. And Remi got it right.

11/6/2014 at 7:52 PM

Looking quickly at the profiles, it seems that Ælfgifu and Emma Ælfgifu of Normandy are intended to be the same person.

Should they be merged?

Private User
11/7/2014 at 10:20 AM
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