Johanna Jonker van den Kaap, SM/PROG - Johanna Jonker (gedoop 1731) is beslis nie dieselfde persoon as Johanna van die Kaap (gedoop 1717)

HI Jaco,
Sharon het gesê sy sal dit die week regmaak.
Dit is haar Curatorship profiel en dan karring ons nie aan mekaar se goed nie.
Kom ons wag vir haar of wil jy solank self begin.
Sharon Doubell what is your though. I think it best if Jaco fixes the mistake on the Jonker tree as he has the 1st hand info.
But I will wait for your reply. Hope you are rested now.
Juds

Sorry guys and girls. That one is mine. Jaco I have given you main management on the profile.
Maak asseblief die nodige reg en ons sal skoonmaak. Laat weet ne.
Juds

Great! I would very much like to see this fixed!

The current information and links to relatives in the Geni profile for Johanna Jonker is not correct:
• her surname was NOT Jonker.
• she was not in any way related to anyone in the family of Jonker progenitor Adolph (son of Jonker van Makassar), so a lot of linking has been made in error here.
• the English transcription of her baptismal data is inaccurate.

She was a Creole (mixed race, “halfslag”) child born to the female slave Rosette of Ceijlon (aka Rosetta van Batavia) owned by the so-called Katsili Daijan Mamoedij, Prins van Ternate . He was NOT the child’s father – that would have been an unknown European person. The so-called prince was merely her OWNER, being the owner of her mother.

In Burgher slave baptisms 1713 – 1742:

Dutch: Johanna - Gedoopt een slaaven-kind van Katsili Daijan Mamoedij, Prins van Ternate; de moeder was Rosetta van Batavia; de getuigen Titus Jacobsz van Macassar, en Johanna van Macassar, zijn huisvrou. NB: het kind is vrij gegeeven.

English: Johanna - Baptised one slave child of Katsili Daijan Mamoedij, Prins of Ternate; the mother was Rosetta van Batavia; the witnesses Titus Jacobsz van Macassar, and Johanna van Macassar, his wife. NB: the child has been given her freedom.

The baptized slave child Johanna van der Kaap was one year old and was born a slave due to her mother being a slave, but manumitted a month before her baptism by her OWNER Katsili Daijan Mamoedij, Prins van Ternate, on 14 Jan 1717.

Johanna van der Kaap’s manumission details:

Slave Johanna van der Kaap manumission details: Cape Archives Court of Justice 3074 No 192, Fol 91. ID 3252. *Creole, mother was Rosetta. Owner is exiled free black Daijman Catohici Mamoedi Prince van Ternate. Manumitted 14 Jan 1717, not baptized.

* Creole = Mulatto = first generation black/white mixed race person – refer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_peoples , http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mulatto and Robert Shell’s publication: “The tower of Babel: the slave trade and Creolozation at the Cape”.

I've created a new profile for Johanna Jonker as the child of Jonker van Makassar, SV/PROG.
If anyone wants to help watch over either of them - just request management.

I agree Sharon - see my post just above yours ☺ Johanna van der Kaap was is a Creole (mixed race) child that the so-called prince's slave Rosette van Ceijlon (aka van Batavia) had about Jan 1716, she was manumitted on 14/1/1717 aged 1 year old by her OWNER the prince and baptised a month later by his slave, her mother, on 14/2/1717.

She is not the same person as Johanna Jonker the daughter of Jonker van Makassar and Rosetta van Java, born around 1722 and baptised in the Christian church with her sister Catharina by their mother on 2 Dec 1731, only weeks before her death.

Em Lo, the baptism reference you quote for Johanna van der Kaap# has her mother as Rosetta van Batavia,
but your article http://www.stamouers.com/index.php/stamouers/surnames-h-to-j/231-jo calls her Rostte van Ceijlon.
Aren't Batavia and Ceijlon different?

Sorry, Em - I removed the post you were answering above: I figured out on my own that I was simply reiterating what you'd already said. (Sorry, I'd just started the disentangle then, and was still a bit lost :-( )

Another question: What sources are we using to establish that Johanna's father was European? ie where is the Creole reference in the Source Data?

Thanks for helping get this right.

Creole is referenced in her manumission: Cape Archives Court of Justice 3074 No 192, Fol 91. ID 3252. 14 Jan 1717. (She aged 1, daughter of Rosetta, owner = exiled free black Daijman Catohici Mamoedi Prince van Ternate.

I'm being dof I know :-) - but I still don't see the Creole reference there.

Sorry: this it, isn't it:
Slave Johanna van der Kaap manumission details: Cape Archives Court of Justice 3074 No 192, Fol 91. ID 3252. *Creole, mother was Rosetta. Owner is exiled free black Daijman Catohici Mamoedi Prince van Ternate. Manumitted 14 Jan 1717, not baptized.

Hi Sharon, I will try and attach a copy of her manumission details to her profile.

Just note that slave Johanna van der Kaap manumitted by her and her mother Rosetta's owner the exiled prince of Ternate and baptised 14/2/1717 was not married to Johann Braun Olckers and did not have a son Johannes Adolphus Olckers. The person who was, was Johanna Jonker, free born daughter of free slaves Jonker van Makassar and Rosetta van Java, baptised as a young girl in Dec 1731.

Thank you Sharon Doubell and Em Lo for all the hard work.
Judi

Sharon could you please add me. Very close family. I don''t get to ask. Geni not giving me the correct link. I says add manager.
Groete
Juds

Yes, will do, Judi. I'm having the same problem on Adolph and a couple of the others. Geni won't let me request management because it seems to believe I'm already a manager, but then doesn't show it.

Thanks for the heads up, Em. I'll move the husband.

I'm still trying to untangle the four Rosetta references:
Rosetta van Java
Rosetta van Ceijlon
Rostta van Batavia
Rosetta van Bengale

My head hurts :-)

Hi Sharon, this may help:

in short:

Rosetta van Java was the wife of Jonker van Makassar, both were free slaves, manumitted around 1717/8.

Prior to her manumission Rosetta van Java was the slave of Rosetta van Bengale. These two Rosettas were close friends and Rosetta van Bengale named Rosetta van Java’s children in two wills of hers. [Will: Rosetta van Bengale (30 Mei 1739). CJ 2609:6 1739 and Will: Rosetta van Bengale (18 Des 1747). CJ 2658:48 1747; MOOC 7/1/10 - 37.]

Rosette van Ceijlon was a slave of exiled Prins Catchiri Daijman Mamoeti from Ternate. She had no connection with the other two Rosettas.

In more detail:

Rosetta van Java (aka van Boegies or Makassar – from Indonesia)
Indonesian woman Rosetta van Java was the wife of Jonker van Makassar. She was born ca 1690-1700. Both her and Jonker were free slaves, manumitted around 1717/8. [Not in 1716 free persons Opgaafrol, but 1719 onwards].

We know from Rosetta van Bengale’s wills (1939 and 1947), that Jonker’s wife Rosetta van Java/Boegies was free black woman Rosetta van Bengale’s slave prior to her manumission, and that they had become such close friends that Rosetta van Boegies’s children were named in these wills as beneficiaries. [Will (1739): CJ 2609:06 Rosetta van Bengaelen; Will (1747): CJ 2658:48 1747; MOOC 7/1/10 - 37. Rosetta van Bengale.]

Before marrying Jonker van Makassar,Rosetta van Java had a son Jacob Jansz with a Dutchman from Amsterdam. Jonker helped raise him and treated him as his own son, and mentioned him in his will together with his own children. Together this Muslim couple had 3 free born children of their own:
• Abdul(lah) born ~Okt 1718, baptised Adolf on 25 Jan 1733 aged 14; became a burgher on 16 Oct 1734 aged 16. We know he was 16 when he became a burgher because it was a requirement that men register within 6 weeks of turning 16, thus we know he would have been born between 4 Sept 1718 en 16 Oct 1718. [Resolutions of the Council of Policy of the Cape of Good Hope (18 Okt. 1708): C.26, pp 107-109].
• 2 Daughters Jamela en Raja born 1722-1724 [HEESE H., Opgaafrolle for Cape Town and District 1719-1735], baptised Johanna and Catharina, on 2 Dec 1731, aged about 7 and 9 (after Jonker van Makassar’s death in 1727).

After Jonker van Makassar’s death in about Oct 1727, Rosetta remarried another free slave Bastiaens van Ceijlon (aka Arij Bastiaans). Sometime thereafter she accepts the Christian faith and she baptises their 2 sons (Johannis baptised 24/9/1730, Adriaan baptised 14/1/1731) as well as her two daughters with Jonker van Makassar before her own death in Dec 1731.

Rosette van Ceijlon (recorded as van Batavia when baptising a child in 1717 )
Rosette van Ceijlon was one of the slaves of exiled Prins Catchiri Daijman Mamoeti from Ternate, aka Ketees Malocco.

She had a Creole (mixed race) daughter, born ca Jan 1716, whose owner the prince of Ternate manumitted her named Johanna van der Kaap when she was 1 year old on 14/1/1717. [Slave manumission: Slave Johanna van der Kaap, ID nr 3252, aged 1 (14 Jan 1717). Cape Town Archive Court of Justice 3074] Rosetta baptised her a month later on 14/2/1717.

Thereafter Rosette van Ceijlon had 3 slave children by her owner exiled Prins Catchiri Daijman Mamoeti from Ternate - born 1717-1722: Amel, Talie en Adel. His 3 children with slave Rosette van Ceijlon were only manumitted 11 years later on 24 Apr 1733 on their incarcerated owner and father’s request. [Slave Manumission - Obligatiën, Transporten van Slaven, Vrijbrieven: CJ 3083 (1733); Resolutions of the Council of Policy of the Cape of Good Hope (2 Feb. 1733) C. 91, pp. 108-117] Their mother Rosette van Ceijlon was still a slave then.

The exiled prince ran a brothel and persisted in such serious immoral and criminal behaviour at the Cape that he was sentenced to incarceration on Robben Island – where he stayed from 28 Nov 1722 untill his death in 1747. [Resolutions of the Council of Policy of the Cape of Good Hope (24 Nov. 1722): C 61, pp 27-34]

-With regard to Rosetta van Batavia (who, documentation tells us, baptised her Creole daughter Johanna by herself in 1717. This daughter previously freed by her owner Prince Mamoeti) –
I can't see the sufficient link that makes her more likely to be Rosette van Ceijlon, - as suggested by: http://www.stamouers.com/index.php/stamouers/surnames-h-to-j/231-jo - rather than a different woman altogether.

I get the point that the slave routes stopped at all these ports, and that there is a chance this woman had travelled to both; or that someone had muddled her toponyms; but this seems more of a stretch than to simply assume (until evidence proves otherwise) that they were two women. Prince Mamoedi himself is unlikely not to have known the vast difference between Ceijlon and Batavia, and we do know that there were many Rosettas. I cannot see the good reason not to assume that Rosetta of Ceijlon and Rosetta of Batavia are simply two different women who Prince Mamoedi owned.

Until we establish that reason, I'm going to hold them as two different profiles, if everyone thinks that is logical.

Hi @Sharon, I have uploaded the proof of Johanna van der Kaap's "Creole" status at the time of manumission. See: Johanna van der Kaap

Thank you Jaco - you're a star!

Sharon that is just fine to keep Rosetta van Batavia and Rosetta van Ceijlon as 2 people - it will make no difference to any connections, and they can be merged in future if one finds conclusive proof beyond both being the Prince van Ternate's slave at about the same time. Thanks.

Great, Em. As you say - easy to merge them if we find evidence that they were definitely the same person. Far more difficult to unmerge them if we find evidence they weren't.

Exactly right!! Assumption and supposition can be very appealing but is also at the root of many if not most genealogy blunders, so I am very happy for everything we publish to have to pass the 'evidence-test'!