Maria Juliana Jansen - Sources?

The entree for her daugther SARA. See the father name and surname.

Name: Sara Helena Smith
Event Type: Baptism
Event Date: 22 Nov 1772
Event Place: Cape Town, Cape of Good Hope, South Africa
Father's Name: Hendrik Smith
Mother's Name: Maria Juliana Janse
Entry Number: 162 , GS Film number: 2214107 , Digital Folder Number: 4322620 , Image Number: 00381

Interesting. Marie - & also these two you found on MH (one has the German SV again?)

More Sharon,
Kyk na die inligting op My Heritage, ek dink hier is iets ook nie lekker.

Maria Juliana Jansen
Birth: 1744 Germany
Death: 1779
Mother: Rosetta "Rosetta van de Kust" van Bengale, SM/PROG
Partner: Johann Heinrich Christoffel Schmidt, SV/PROG
Daughter: Sara Helena

Maria Juliana Jansen
MyHeritage Family Trees
Tracy Engelbrecht_s family (3) in Tracy Engelbrecht's Family, managed by Tracy Engelbrecht (Contact)
Birth: Mar 29 1744 - Cape Town, South Africa
Death: July 7 1779
Parents: Johannes Jansz Van Ceylon, Rosetta Jansz Van Ceylon (born Van Bengal)
Siblings: Johannes Willem Jansen, Johanna Rebecca Danielse (born Van Der Caab), Appolonia Danielse (born Jansz
Marie

1750 There are 3 Rosetta van Bengale wills: CJ 2611:38 1750; wife of Johannes Jansz; MOOC 7/1/11:4 1750; wife of Johannes Jansz; MOOC 7/1/19:14 1750; It will be interesting to check exactly what each said and try and understand why so many had to be drawn up.

There is also a 1764 combined will of Johannes Jansz and Rosetta van Bengale - will be good if someone has access to this to transcribe the detail: MOOC 7/1/19:15 1764.

Yes, that would be crucial info. @Judith. I'll try and tag judi when I get my computer back to see if she has the info.

Private User - would you have access to any of these?

Looking at this will (through the translating eyes of an Engelse) can someone check my assumptions please? (Em Lo, Private User, Private User):

Inventories of the Orphan Chamber Reference no.: MOOC8/13.23
Testator(s): Rosetta van Bengalen
16 October 1769
Cloppenburg

Inventaris van alle sodanige goederen als 'er naar voor afgaande op den 6:e Julij 1750 gepasseerde testamentaire dispositie met haar en haar voor overleedene man, mitsgaders op den 10:e Maart 1764 door haar nader gemaakte codicillaire dispositie metter dood zijn ontruijmt en de naargelaaten door Rosetta van Bengalen wed: Jan Jansz: van Ceijlon, ten voordeele van haare nagelatene kind en kindskinderen, met naamen:

1) Valentijn van Oolen bij representatie van wijlen desselfs moeder Johanna Rebecca Jansz: gehuuwt geweest met Harmen van Oolen
2) Sara Christina Danielsz en Hendrik Danielsz: bij plaatsvullinge van wijlen hunlieder moeder Appolinia Jansz: getr: geweest met Adolph Danielsz:
3) Johannes Adriaan Jansz: bij representatie van wijlen desselfs vader Johannes Willem Jansz:
4) Maria Juliana Jansz: getrouwt met den burger Hendrik Smit

....

-Rosetta van Bengalen is likely to have died in 1769

-Jan Jansz: van Ceijlon is likely to have died in 1750

-Only 1 of the following is Rosetta's child; All the others are granchildren:
Valentijn van Oolen;
Sara Christina Danielsz en Hendrik Danielsz [definitely grandchildren]
Johannes Adriaan Jansz;
Maria Juliana Jansz

...The child being, Maria Juliana Jansz.

We're still short of baptism documentation for Johanna Rebecca Jansz.

Notable, is the absence of references to children of:
Frans Jansz (c1737), Jan Adriaan Janse (c1738),(c 1740), Johannes Valentyn Van Cylon (c1741), Hendrik Jan Van Cijlon (
- who we have as the other kids of Rosetta van Bengalen

Frans: Baptised 14 July 1737. Parents Rosetta van Mengalen & Jan Jansz
Jan Adriaan: Baptised 14 Sept 1788, Parents: Johannes Janse & Rosetta van Benglalen
Johannes Valentyn: Baptised 23 Apr 1741, parents Johannes Janzen van Ceylon & Rosetta van Bengalen
Hendrik Jan: 12 Jun 1746, parents Johannes van Ceijlon & Rosetta van Bengalen
Maria Juliana: found baptismal entry for her child Jan Daniel, with husband Hendrik Smith on 12 Jun 1768. Witness = Adolf Danielse, sister Apolonia’s husband.
Johanna Rebecca: found baptismal entry for her child Frans Christoffel Alen/Oolen husband of Harmen van Alen/Oolen on 16 Apr 1750. Witnesses are Johannes Janse van Ceijlon & Rosetta van Bengale.

Please also see my post at http://www.geni.com/discussions/147942

Yes, sorry - I wasn't perhaps being clear. I meant that it is notable that so many of them are not mentioned in the will.

Won't you also give me an opinion on my assumptions on the 2:05 post? (Oh damn - you're in Australia, hmm - so time won't work ... 4 posts up ... on the will. I need someone to check that I'm translating correctly:

ie

-Rosetta van Bengalen is likely to have died in 1769

-Jan Jansz: van Ceijlon is likely to have died in 1750

-Only 1 of the following is Rosetta's child; All the others are granchildren:

Hi Sharon, it sounds as if their wills from 1750 were superceded in 1764. It is not clear to me that it implies a DOD for the husband.

In Leibbrandt it sounds as if he died not very long before her since they mention executing his estate in 1769:
Leibbrandt Precis Requesten vol 2 F-O: Jansz (Johannes) ; of Ceylon ; deceased. Orphan Masters as Executors of his Estate, and that of his wife (deceased) Rosetta of Bengal submit that the latter, in her Will, desired the manumission of her slave, Augusto of Ceylon. They offer as sureties, the burghers Jan Mostert of Wieringen and Daniel Winst. (Extract from Will annexed. (No. 68 ; date, 1 2th December, 1769, p612)

Note that there are new wills drawn up for both Johannes Jansz and his wife Rosetta van Bengale in 1764. One will have to read them to be sure but it sounds to me as if both died after 1764, and not long apart going by the Leibbrandt entry mentioned above.

I did find a raft of references to documents which I think one will have to read to be sure why so many documents were drawn up if they are all for the same couple, or if they are for different couples, try and separate them by children names:

DEPOT KAB
SOURCE CJ
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 2611
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 38
PART 1
DESCRIPTION JANSZ, JOHANNES. VAN CEYLON. TESTAMENT.
STARTING 17500000
ENDING 17500000

DEPOT KAB
SOURCE MOOC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 7/1/11
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 4
PART 1
DESCRIPTION JANSZ, JOHANNES. WILL.
STARTING 17500000
ENDING 17500000

DEPOT KAB
SOURCE MOOC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 7/1/19
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 14
PART 1
DESCRIPTION JANSZ, JOHANNES. WILL.
STARTING 17500000
ENDING 17500000

DEPOT KAB
SOURCE MOOC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 7/1/19
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 14
PART 1
DESCRIPTION ROSETTA, VAN BENGALEN. WIFE OF JOHANNES JANSZ. WILL.
STARTING 17500000
ENDING 17500000

DEPOT KAB
SOURCE MOOC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 7/1/11
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 4
PART 1
DESCRIPTION ROSETTA, VAN BENGALEN. WIFE OF JOHANNES JANSZ. WILL.
STARTING 17500000
ENDING 17500000

DEPOT KAB
SOURCE MOOC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 7/1/19
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 15
PART 1
DESCRIPTION JANSZ, JOHANNES. WILL.
STARTING 17640000
ENDING 17640000

DEPOT KAB
SOURCE MOOC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 7/1/19
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 15
PART 1
DESCRIPTION ROSETTA, VAN BENGALEN. WIFE OF JOHANNES JANSZ. WILL.
STARTING 17640000
ENDING 17640000

DEPOT KAB
SOURCE MOOC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 13/1/7
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 42
PART 1
DESCRIPTION ROSETTA, VAN BENGALEN. WEDUWEE VAN JANSZ, JAN VAN CEYLON.
LIQUIDATION AND DISTRIBUTION ACCOUNT.
STARTING 17690000
ENDING 17700000

In Rosetta van Bengalen's 1769 inventory MOOC8/13.23 it does list only one child (Maria Juliana Jansz) and grandchildren from 3 other children, Johanna Rebecca Jansz x Harmen van Oolen, Johannes Willem Jansz, and Appolinia (Appolonia?) Jansz x Adolph Danielsz.

Of course any children who pre-deceased their mother and did not leave grandchildren, will not be mentioned. Or it is of course possible that the other children in the baptismal records shown as children of Rosetta van Bengale and Jan (Johannes) Jansz/e are from a different couple or couples with similar names.

There seems to have been numerous possible Jan Jansz or Johannes Jansz/Janse candidates, so I think one will have to cross check many documents to separate them all accurately.If someone lives near the CT archive and can look up all these wills it will be a great help.

I see in the Cape muster rolls 1657-1713 there were also a raft of European Jan Jansz/e/en at the Cape - looks like these were very common names. http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/muster-rolls/cape-archives...

And in many distribution accounts female slaves by the name Rosetta van Bengalen are mentioned, so this opens up many possibilities...definitely a bit of a challenge! ☺

HI Sharon Doubell and EM, I am still not able to go through my CD's on the new PC. Will have to put to old box on to watch the CD's. Hopefully by next weekend Jan will cut them all onto memory sticks and I will be able to load them I am better known with my Jansen line that Ferdi Jansen helped me with. That is Zirk Jansen.
That is why I prefer books. At least they never go "uit die mode" and don't work as the technology goes up☺.
Juds