Anna Maria Pietersz de Leeuw, SM/PROG - mtDNA H3-A73G or H1ak1

Начала Sharon Doubell среда, 13 января 2016
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13.1.2016 в 6:33 до полудня

Private User - a direct matrilineal descendant of Anna Maria Pietersz de Leeuw has tested as mtDNA Haplogroup: H3-A73G - who is also listed as H1ak1 on FTDNA.com. Linda points out that the field on FTDNA is there for everyone to fill in as they please - it asks for your maternal ancestor. A LOT of people misunderstand the field and fill in their mother's surname line's ancestor. It is not to be trusted, unless you can contact the person and find out how they got to it.

I am very meticulous in my research and look for original source documents for every ancestor. It is not to say that I couldn't have made a mistake with our mtDNA progenitors, but just thought I'd let you know that I didn't get to it through Geni entries or SAG. It is sometimes hard to tell how people do their research.

She makes a good point.

Are there any other motherline descendants of Anna who have had their mtDNA tested?

Private User
13.1.2016 в 2:31 после полудня

Let's keep our fingers crossed. I can just mention that during my research I have uncovered some big mistakes with geni profiles in my mtDNA line, which has now been corrected with source documentation. The errors came about as profiles were created from errors in SAG. If only we can contact the person with H1ak1. Would love to compare research

Private User
28.1.2016 в 5:01 после полудня

I'd like to just add, I've had Full Mitochondrial Sequence (FMS) done by FTDNA, result was h1ak1. My matches include Anton Dreyer, Rick Venter et al. All of whom have proven lineages to Johanna Pietersz. There is very convincing evidence that Johanna Pietersz is the daughter of Maria Helm, who is the daughter of Geetruij Willemsz.

I have an FMS match with Dr. Piet Lötter, at a genetic distance of 1, who claims to be a descendant of Anna Maria Pietersz de Leeuw. If you'd like to compare Linda, I'd be happy to. I can't seem to get hold of Dr. Piet Lötter, despite several attempts.

Private User
28.1.2016 в 7:55 после полудня

Hi Corrie, who is Johanna Pieterz? How is Johanna Pieterz related to Anna Maria Pieterz de Leeuw with regards to a proven paper trail? Sorry, but I am pedantic about source documents and don't rely on the Geni tree or SAG for my research. I have source documents to proof my lineage back to Anna Maria Pieterz de Leeuw with the first 9 generations as follows. The 10th generation is my own great grandmother:

1) Anna Maria Jansz van Reijnenburg
2) Magdalena Bastiaans, b4 SM
3) Magdalena Helena Jooste, a2b4
4) Magdalena Jooste, a1b1c1
5) Magdalena van der Merwe, b7c3d3
6) Magdalena Johanna Jooste, b2c10d4e1f4
7) Francina Susanna Esterhuizen, b1c8d4e6
8) Martha Louisa Kruger
9) Fransina Susanna Steyl, e7f3

Would love to know how your are related via paper trail

Linda

Private User
28.1.2016 в 8:06 после полудня

There does not seem to be any direct link between Anna Maria Pieterz de Leeuw and Johanna Pieterz at all, so it seems then that we could be on the right track with Anna Maria Pieterz de Leeuw H3-A73G and Geertruij Willemsz H1AK1
This is the relationship path between the two - very far apart according to geni profiles:
Geertruij Willemsz, SM/PROG is Anna Maria Pietersz de Leeuw, SM/PROG's great grandson's wife's second great grandmother.

Anna Maria Pietersz de Leeuw, SM/PROG

Christina Bastiaans, b1 SM
her daughter

Anna Sophia Hörsel, b2
her daughter

Jan Hendrik Robbertze, b1c7
her son

Geertruij Jacoba van der Linde, b3c1
his wife

Sara Jacoba van der Linde (Lubbe), b3c2
her mother

Catharina van Wyk, b1c8
her mother

Cornelia Helm, b2 SM
her mother

Geertruij Willemsz, SM/PROG
her mother

Private User
28.1.2016 в 8:28 после полудня

Hi Linda,

The paper trail, as proposed by Jaco Strauss and Corney Keller, is as follows:
1. Geertruij Helm, SM/PROG
2. Maria Helm, b3 SM/PROG
3. Johanna Pietersz van Nimwegen

The above being supported by primary documents and research, as conducted by Corney Keller and Jaco Strauss.

4. Maria Christina Visagie
5. Catherina Elizabeth Blomerus, c4d6 SM
6. Maria Alida Blomerus, b4
7. Anna Catharina van den Berg, b2c3
8. Martha Magdalena du Plooy, b5c4d9e3f1g3
9. Martha Magdalena du Plooy *Limit of primary documents in my possession.
10. Martha Magdalena Labuschagne
11. Elsie Maria Johanna Handford (Labuschagne)

11. is my great grandmother Ellie Maria Magdalena Handford (Labuschagne).

I have the marriage certificate for Martha Magdalena du Plooy and Roelof du Plooy's marriage in Bethulie (thanks to Lea Duckitt).

Private User
28.1.2016 в 9:01 после полудня

Thanks Corrie, so at the moment there is actually no problem with my research or yours and it is supported by both our Full Mitochondrial Sequence tests. Anna Maria Pieterz de Leeuw and Geertuij Willemsz are not related at all by paper trail (or Geni tree at least) and not related at all by DNA. Now to see why Dr. Piet Lötter reckons his mtDNA progenitor is Anna Maria Pieterz de Leeuw, while being a close match to you. I think we may find that he is probably related to Geertruij Willemz .

Private User
28.1.2016 в 9:52 после полудня

Linda,

Appreciate your help. As stated above, I've tried contacting Dr. Piet Lötter with no success. It would be great if we can figure it out.

Can I just point out how close your result is to mine?

354080 Farrell Anna Maria Pietersz de Leeuw c. 1665, Gelderland H3-A73G!
HVR1:
A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C
HVR2:
C146T, C152T, C195T, A247G, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C

N112887 Corrie Geertruij Willemsz, b. 1652 H1ak1
HVR1:
A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C
HVR2:
'''G73A''', C146T, C152T, C195T, A247G, 522.1A, 522.2C, 309.1C, 315.1C

One difference in the HVR2.

28.1.2016 в 11:27 после полудня

Very interesting

29.1.2016 в 7:49 до полудня

t seems too big difference in Haplogroup, which come first?

My wife is also direct maternal descendant of Willems SM/PROG via paper trail, and DNA test underway. :) However, it will only be the limited one, but at least we will have one further haplogroup.

Private User
29.1.2016 в 9:21 после полудня

Corrie, even though the differences in our mtDNA tests look small, it is actually quite big. Big enough to cause a whole new haplogroup and everything that goes with that.

Private User
29.1.2016 в 11:22 после полудня

Linda, I understand that. I just wanted to draw your attention to the similarities. To my eye, it's clear that they're both from the same population i.e. Dutch. That's all I was intimating.

Private User
30.1.2016 в 1:53 до полудня

Oh yes, I see what you mean. H1 and H3 are definitely 2 subhaplogroups of H that are very closely related and both have to do with the Magdalenian expansion from South Western Europe more or less 13,000 years ago

Private User
30.1.2016 в 2:05 до полудня

Have you read the Seven Daughters of Eve, by Bryan Sykes? He calls those with H-haplogroup the clan of Helena.

Chapter 17: Helena
Whether just by chance or by the guiding hand of natural selection we do not know, but Helena’s clan has grown to become the most widespread and successful of the Seven Daughters of Eve. Her children have reached every shore, settled every forest and crossed every mountain range. Helena’s descendants can be found from the Alps in the South to the Scottish Highlands and the Norwegian fjords in the North, and as far east as the Urals and the Russian steppes.

Helena was born about 20,000 years ago on the strip of land that joins France and Spain, near what is now Perpignan. She belonged to a family of hunters, who harvested the rich oyster beds in the lagoons of the Carmargue to supplement their diet of meat. Helena’s clan arrived in Europe from the Middle East, pushing their way along the Mediterranean, constrained to the narrow strip of land that was still habitable.

Helena lived twenty thousand years ago at a time when the last Ice Age was at its most severe. Glaciers and permanent ice fields covered all of Scandinavia and stretched as far south as the present-day cities of Berlin and Warsaw. The Baltic Sea was permanently frozen, as was the North Sea from Denmark to the Humber. In the winter the Atlantic froze and there was pack ice as far south as Bordeaux. Britain, still joined to continental Europe by dry land, was buried under ice down to what are now the English midlands, central Wales an southern Ireland. Year by year the tundra, the bleak terrain which was nothing more than a thin layer of soil and vegetation.

Not long after she was born, the glaciers that covered the Pyrenees, which Helena could see on a clear day only thirty miles from her camp, began to draw back as, little by little, the summers grew warmer. Some of her clan moved south of the mountains, up the valley of the Ebro to the West to reach the lands of the Basque, where they remain to this day. The most adventurous of her children took advantage of the climatic improvements and journeyed ever northwards to join the great movement of hunters across the plains of France. We know that they reached England around 12,000 years ago because DNA recovered from a young male skeleton found in Gough’s Cave in Somerset shows that he too belonged to the clan of Helena.

Private User
31.1.2016 в 12:47 после полудня

Yes Corrie, the book makes very interesting reading!

25.6.2016 в 11:06 после полудня

This is an interesting thread. FTDNA also shows that my mtdna and that of my brother is H1ak1, yet the only match I have on the full mtdna is my brother. There are 9 extra mutations reported. Could that be the reason that we have no other mtDNA matches.
Our earliest maternal ancestor is Elizabeth Savage b. 1797 in Woodrising, Norfolk, England.
I don't see any matches at a distance of 1.

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