Matthys Cornelissen - Confusion

Hi Alex,
Humble immigrants who immigrated to New Amsterdam were used to using patronyms. They actually didn't want to have anything to do with last names. But when the English came closer and closer to them they were forced to chose last names. The nice thing about patonyms is that you can be sure that Mathys Cornelissen / Mathijs Cornelisz had a father whose name was Cornelis.

You have to remember when working in the New Amsterdam area that there is a transition period between the Dutch and the English.

I don't have any idea why his marriage record which is in Dutch states that he came from Jutland. if he came 'from Hoorn'. His brothers and sisters had very Dutch first names. Van Horne is also a Dutch name.

This entry states about the same thing: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/VANHORNE/1999-01/0916...

It wasn't until 1811-1812 that people in the Netherlands that it was mandatory to choose last names if the weren't already going by a certain name.

Getting a little bit away from the subject I read just a day or two ago that even now in the 21st century there are no last names in Iceland !

(Some chose patronyms, others decided to go by their occupations. Some people were so innocent that they chose ridiculous names like pannekoek (pancake), mierenhoop (ant hill) etc. They sometimes even chose dirty names! They didn't realize that a last name was important for tax purposes.)

Hi Private User,

Did you read the responding post to the one you linked?
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/VANHORNE/1999-01/0916...
Horne is on the very northern tip of Denmark (make sure you Google "Horne, Jutland" or you will get results for Holland)

Obviously as his patronym is "Cornelissen" logic dictates that his father's name is Cornelis(sp) that is why i questioned him being attached to the Van Hoorn family... ie, JAN van Hoorn and his wife Hillegondt Joris (also from Hoorn). His sibling's names are hardly relevant, especially if you check the data conflict as you will see that one option has Matthys as the only son of CORNELIS and Barentje. However, while that seems closer I think it may also be wishful thinking as Cornelis is from Sweden not Denmark and they marry in NA so how would their child be born in Denmark?

I think Matthys Cornelissen should be disconnected completely from both sets of parents, there might be a bunch of "Dutch" New Yorker's who surprised to learn they are not Cloggies at all.

Hi Alex,
I've now read the responding post http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/VANHORNE/1999-01/0916....

Everything you and I have read has helped me to decide that his parents are unknown to us.

I don't think that he is the son of either of the parents that can be chosen. I seen the other Curators advise posting their thoughts in the 'Discussions' section which can be found on Matthys's profile page before you disconnect Matthys from the different sets of parents. Just copy and paste what we both have written. OK?

I suppose my mind was just spinning the following 'story'
I did check to see where Jutland is located. In the area where I live there aare many van Horne families however and I've read of many instances that sailors who sailed up north to fish. Many times they not only caught fish but also married Scandinavian ladies. That's why I was thinking that Matthys could have been the son of a Dutch sailor that had been born in Denmark :-)

(I do however think 'dutch' whenever I see names that can be Dutch . I'd like you to keep in mind that there are many van Horne families living in the Netherlands and the Flemish part of Belgium. In Weert, which is in Limburg the Netherlands, there is an ancient brick arch which was the entrance to the van Horne castle. It and the castle are right in the middle of Weert. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Horne.)

Ann

Erica Howton advises leaving a link to the detached parents / spouse in the Overview, e.g.,

Detached parents [xxxxxxxxxx] and [yyyyyy] on <date> "your name". This is no evidence for his/her parents.

Justin Swanstrom taught me that method. What's nice about it is that it puts the burden of proof on someone asserting a parent claim, without needing to defend the "unknown parent" position.

My typing is atrocious. I usually put in the Curator's Notes or Overview "There is no evidence for these parents."

I added a paragraph to the start of his About, it's a bit long winded but i think covers all points made here.

(Any chance there is a Jutland,USA?)

The Swedish/Dutch American couple (Cees and Fyije) did have a son named Matthys a year or so after they married...

Disconnected parents and MP'd him :)

Jutland, New Jersey :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jutland,_New_Jersey

As you know, Alex Moes, Hunterdon was one of the counties with large, early Dutch settlements in New Jersey.

Hatte,

You give me too much credit, i had to check Wiki just to find that Jutland NJ is in Hunterdon County!
I see that Hunterdon was formed in 1714 from a portion of Burlington County, the Burlington wiki page isnt very well written but the earliest date i see on it is 1681.

There are two "Jutland" references in the entire Robert L. Billard DRC database, one from 1655 and this one from 1692.

There's the slightest possibility that he was from Jutland, NJ but i really think the evidence points to Jutland in Denmark.

Somerset, Hunterdon, Monmouth, Cumberland are all New Jersey counties whose early settlers included many of the Long Island Dutch families.

Remember Readington, Hunterdon was founded by Adrian Lane (van Pelt), whose parents we were / are unsure of (Gysbert or Mathias)?

But you are correct, it's too early for the Dutch. The Dutch got to Jutland (Union Township) in the early 1700s.

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000000331358043

Found it, lol

Maria / Mary Provoost

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000002134801577

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/5492007358480022948

Hello Bruce, judging by the number of PMs you sent me you seem quite excited about something??

Yes, Jutland (in Hunterdon County, NJ)

https://newjersey.hometownlocator.com/nj/hunterdon/jutland.cfm

Well with all my research I have found my great Grandfathers portfolio of 1930's of his business with BC Molybdenum Company mine in Pitt Lake here as Esquire Director and documents to support the Union College of BC residence in the United Church of Canada, University Hill, this is just some of the facts to support out life here in Vancouver as Royalty Esquire, this is why my name

Lord Bruce de UBC

Matthys Cornelissen MP
Gender: Male
Birth: circa 1658
Horne, North Jutland, Denmark
Death: circa 1716 (49-66)
Monmouth, Province of New Jersey
Immediate Family:
Husband of Fytje Adamse Brouwer
Father of Capt. Cornelius Matthysen van Horne and Abraham Matthysen Van Horne

I AM LOOKING FOR Matthys-Cornelissen FATHER MATTHYS was born 1658 around that time the battle between the Sweden and Danmark and Norway the 3 kings

Matthys Cornelissen

BrouwerijCornelissen

https://brouwerijcornelissen.be/en/ the founders of this name link to Matthys-Cornelissen and Fytje Adamse Brouwer

You
→ Robert Ernest Myers
your father → Harry Elsworth Myers
his father → Baron William Charles Benson LeRoy
his father → David Myers
his father → David Myers, Jr
his father → Catherine Myers/Miers (Roelofsen (Rule))
his wife → Laurence/Lorentz Roelofson (Rule) (Roelofson)
her father → Margaret Roelofson (Van Horne)
his mother → Abraham Matthysen Van Horne
her father → Matthys Cornelissen
his father