Thomas Lloyd, II - Death and Burial and years and an ocean apart

He is listed in a London cemetery with a burial date of 1718, so I updated his profile. Likely he wasn't dug up and moved.

St Botolph without Aldgate Churchyard record number 48 Lloyd, Thomas 1675-1718

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSsr=41&G...;

He is also listed as dying in Pennsylvania. Interesting situation.

Merion Friends Burial Ground in Pennsylvania, record number 886 1671-1748

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSsr=841&amp...;

Elizabeth is shown with a death date of 10/11/1748 compared to 2/6/1748 in Geni.

Also noticed multiple wives with kids born at the same time. Too many kids listed for him to die in 1718. Tough to get married after being dead for over 20 years. Suffice to say he and his wives have some data issues.

Thomas Lloyd, II was the son of Thomas Lloyd, a noted Welsh Quaker who later became lieutenant-governor of provincial Pennsylvania. This line has been extensively researched. WorldCat provides a starting bibliography for research at http://worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n85216057/ which may help answer the question.

Kenzie has provided some work on this line, also, at http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kenzie/GenLLOYD.htm

According to Kenzie, "Thomas Lloyd, son of Governor Thomas and Mary (Jones) Lloyd, born in Great Britain, September 15, 1675, was a merchant of Goodmansfield, London, and died there prior to 12 mo. 17, 1717, at which date his widow obtained a certificate from London Meeting to Philadelphia. She was Sarah Young, born November 2, 1676, and died in Philadelphia."

You might also be interested in volume 1 of Colonial and Revolutionary Families of Pennsylvania: Genealogical and Personal Memoirs. See https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/199838?availability=Family%... for digital editions of this work. You will need to be in a FamilyHistory library to gain access.

Two Thomas Lloyds merged in Geni

1. Thomas Lloyd 1675-1717 born and died in England. married Sarah Young, who went to PA with her son Peter and died in 1740.

2. Thomas Lloyd 1671-1748 born in Wales and died in PA. Married Elizabeth Williams, who was born in Wales in 1672 and also died in 1748 in PA..

Number 1 fits here. Number 2 does not.

Pamela, do you know where number 2 goes? Or which one married Jane Jean?

Nice references. You can view the book at Ancestry.com.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=Genealogy-glh31429512...

I see from the Quaker death date of 12//27/1717, he died before February 27,1718.

Created another Thomas Lloyd and separated Elizabeth from Thomas II, along with the appropriate children. Left them both married to Jane Jean.

Thank you for your responses John and Pamela. I'm afraid that the tweaks today and last night messed up my connections to Thomas Lloyd, Sr. (my 9 GG) and Jr. (my 8th GG). It was not my intention to have the records changed. No. 2 is my ancestor....

I will go though each child and match them to church records.

This is according to Quaker Meeting records in Pennsylvania and Church records in England,

Sarah Lloyd was born 9/14/1701 in Montgomery Pennsylvania, the daughter of Thomas Lloyd and Elizabeth Williams. This Thomas Lloyd was born in Wales in 1671 and died in Pennsylvania in 1748. He married Elizabeth after he reached Pennsylvania and his children were born there. His parents were David Lloyd and Gwen Lowery.

This is not the Thomas Lloyd who was born in 1675 and died in 1718 in London. That Thomas Lloyd married Sarah Young and his children were born in London. His parents were Thomas Lloyd,, Lt Gov, and Mary Jones.

I verified the children of both Thomas Lloyds and added some spouses. I also found some ancestors for the Pennsylvania Thomas. They were already in Geni, so I merged them.

I think this line needs straightening out again. Looks like Thomas has his birth and death in England and his children here in the Colonies and yes, I mean from Virginia to Pennsylvania.

Susannah Anna Lloyd doesn't seem to fit with her child Elizabeth Molly Jackson Could someone look?

If this is a recurring sort of problem mixing the Virginia and Pennsylvania groups, maybe a curator needs to be called in to MP and lock some profiles. John S. Lloyd doesn't belong as a son, either. I have a discussion launched about other issues with his profile.

Private User Private User and Pamela D Lloyd can you all look at this profile again? Seems to have gotten all askew.

I think that Find a Grave may be the source of some confusion. Maybe it is right, but we need a confirmation that John S. Lloyd, shoemaker and cobbler moved from Wales to Virginia and is the son of Thomas Lloyd, II and wife Sarah. I am just not sure of that.

This https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/120052376/john-lloyd shows a document with Thomas and Sarah as parents, but it may or may not be attributed correctly. Any thoughts?

Wikitree https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lloyd-2946 lists the father of John S. Lloyd as a Thomas Lloyd, but this is the information noted on the profile:

Occupation

Occupation: Boot and Shoe Maker

Note

Note: Some of the information contained in these notes may or may not be correct. Some is speculation, but based on information available at the time. Please understand that there is no documentation for part of this information and proceed with caution in using it.
John's father was from Wales "hence the reason of using the double L in the spelling of our names. He had 2 older brothers, Joseph and Phillip, one a watch maker and the other a printer. John was bound at a young age as an apprentice to a boot and shoe maker and he aspired to become a master craftsman in this trade. He married without the permission of his employer to whom he was bound as an apprentice, and therefore could not become a master craftsman, but would work his life as a journeyman. This marriage took place about 1723 in London, England, to a woman who was born 1704. A child was born to this marriage but the wife and child died suddenly in 1725. It is believed that John Loyd came to America as an indentured prisoner convicted of theft of several shoemaker's tools. His punishment was 14 years of indentured service in America. He was shipped aboard the ship Rappahanock, under the command of Charles Whale on March 10, 1727, bound for Maryland, along with fellow prisoners, 7 men and 1 woman. Nothing more is known of John until his marriage to Prudence Emrey in Orange County, Virginia in 1742. This would be 16 years after his conviction in England. John Loyd served in the Frederick Co. Virginia Militia in the 1750's. At a vestry meeting in November, 1767, John was appointed "reader" of the Parish of Frederick of the Church of England at McKays Chapel. His salary was 6 pounds a year. He served in that capacity again in 1768 and 1769. A vestry of November 27, 1772 showed John Loyd was exempted for payment of Parish livies, which might indicate that he was too old or too feeble to work. John would have been 68 in 1772. All of John Loyd's 5 sons served in either the Continental Army or the Minute Men Militia during the Revolutionary War. While the manner of his coming to America is questionable, he is thought to have been a productive and respected member of the Frederick County community, living most of his adult life there. His appointment as "reader" at McKays Chapel is indicative of the esteem in which he was held by the community and it shows that he was a devout member of the Church of England.
Bonded Passengers to America (Volumes I and II) 1615-1775 & 1617-1775-John S. Lloyd-Oct T(transported) 14 years Nov 1725-aboard the Rappahannock M to Md. -captained by C. Whale-79 passengers-actually bound for Virginia according to this book-38 passengers died on voyage.
As a starting point, here is an extraction from the beginning
of the Weaver book:

"Most of what is known about John and Prudence (Emrey) Lloyd has been preserved in a letter written by their youngest son, Joseph, when Joseph was seventy-seven years of age, the letter having been written in response to an inquiry from Joseph's nephew, James McCracken Lloyd.

1. The full text of Joseph's letter is:
Mount Washington Oct 14th 1838. Bullitt County Kentucky
A. The Lloyds
The First of our Lloyd line to reach American Shores was John Lloyd who was born in the city of London, England, in the year 1704 on Old Christmas Day, came to Baltimore, Maryland, in 1726, married Prudence Emrey in 1742, and with her reared a family of five sons and two daughters."

Anonymous [View Citation] [View Image]
Memorial record of Alabama : a concise account of the state's political, military, professional and industrial progress, together with the personal memoirs of many of its people.
Madison, Wis.: Brant & Fuller, 1893, 2216 pgs
(copied)

This found regarding John Lloyd, listed as a grandfather of George W. Lloyd from the above source!
The grandfather Lloyd was a native of Wales, came to America in an early day, was a soldier in the Revolutionary war, and died from a wound received in that struggle.
Picture of home of John Kelly Lloyd home, Calmes Neck, Virginia.
It was taken between twenty and twenty-five years ago. The photographer was Gordon "Mac" MacDougall, from whom we bought the five acres we now live on.
Mac is about 80, lives alone and has some 25,000 slides which are spottily classified. Mac is still looking for the picture he took of John Kelly Lloyd standing in front of that house. If we find it, THAT's going to be the one you want.
chrs,

In 1782 a census was taken in Orange County, Virginia which included a John Loyd with 9 persons in the household. THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE TAKEN IN ORANGE COUNTY, VIRGINIA BY ROWLAND THOMAS, GENT. OCTOBER, 1782
Could this possibly be our John Lloyd--The Proceedings of the Old Bailey Ref: t17270222-9-Source

Original Text:

John Lloyd , of the Parish of St. Botolph's Aldgate, was indicted for stealing a Gold Ring, value 9 Shillings with several Shoemakers Tools, as Knives, Pinchers. Awls, &c. the 6th of Feb. last, the Goods and Property of Samuel Peters. The Prosecutor depos'd. That the Prisoner had lodged at his House, and upon making Enquiry for the Loss of his Things, he heard the Prisoner was stopt with the Ring, which he pretended he found in the Entry, but it not being believ'd that he could find the working Tools too, (which was taken on him) the Jury found him guilty to the Value of 10 d .

The Trials being over, the Court proceeded to give Judgement as follows:
Transportation 45.

John Hastings , Edmond Lloyd , Jane Arter , Margaret Taylor , Matthew Plumly , John Deal , John Lloyd , Joseph Ilewood , John Edmonds , Mary Brown , Jane Eades , Sarah White , Sarah Dallison , Ann Perry , William Caper , Richard Welch , Ann Jordan , Charles Rawlins , Simon Sherlock , Philip Bond , Charles Stamper , Edward Crisp , William Dawson , Anthony Hamilton , Andrew Best , Rowland Salmon , Sarah Roberts , John Asbcomb , George Shaw , John Broom , John Mayo , William Minton , Martha Williams , Thomas Edwards , Tho Reynolds , John Blake , Elizabeth Plat , Mary Holland , and John Lawson .