Margareta, i Härtonäs - On Margareta, i Härtonäs' origins

Начал Микко Лааксо четверг, 14 сентября 2017
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14.9.2017 в 10:18 после полудня

There has been development regarding on the origins of "Margareta, i Härtonäs".

***** I. Lasse and Margareta *****

Records say that Lasse, i Gästerby was married with Margareta, i Härtonäs (1).

This particular reference is of interest for a number of reasons. It may be the only reference which lists all of their three children together. All of the three children are stamfar to noble families.

-Peder to the family Stubbe (n:o 72) (3)
-Erik to the family Ekelöf (n:o 217) (4), and
-Margareta to the family Creutz (n:o 92) (5).

This particular reference is also of interest, because if says this under the family Ekelöf. But not under Creutz (2). Which may create confusion. Both references are from the Project Runeberg, and the Project Runeberg does not mention family Stubbe as a noble family at all.

So, according to the Project Runeberg, Lasse, I Gästerby and Margareta, i Härtonäs had three children, and that they are the ancestors of the family Ekelöf and Creutz (1) but not Stubbe. Under Creutz (2), none of the five are mentioned, and the project does not deal with the family Stubbe to any depth at all.

It is here stated that I do not present my case solely under what is presented under Project Runeberg or my next references from Adelsvapen but a number of references and a common sense. Such as, if the years do not add up, then it excludes things from being possible.

Moving on,

In Adelsvapen Lasse, i Gästerby and Margareta, i Härtonäs, are mentioned under:

-Stubbe (3)
-Ekelöf (4), and
-Creutz (5)

Under Stubbe it is stated that:
-"The family has same origins with the family Ekelöf (but not with Creutz)" and,
-Parents to the stamfar, Peder, are "Lasse i Gästerby i Sibbo socken. Gift med Margareta i Härtonäs" and,
-Under Stubbe, the other two children, Erik and Margareta, are not mentoned at all. (3)

Under Ekelöf is is stated that:
-The family shares the same origins with the family Stubbe (but not with Creutz).
-The same thing of the parents of Stamfar, Erik, has been stated. Again, no reference whatsoever, to the two siblings, Peder and Margareta is made. (4)

Under Creutz it is stated that:
-Lasse, i Gästerby is stamfar Ekelöf, but also that
-Margareta, i Härtonäs, is of a noble family from Härtonäs and mentions, in passing, Jägerhorn, but places the name in parentheses (Jägerhorn). Verbatim: "Margareta i Härtonäs, av den adliga Härtonässläkten (Jägerhorn)."
-Again, no siblings to, and I quote, "Margareta Larsdotter" are listed. Thus the page is right about the name of Margareta Larsdotter. Her name is not "Margareta Larsdotter Ekelöf, i Gesterby". It never was, never will. (5)

Synthesis by now:

-Project Runeberg is right about the children, but only under Ekelöf, and nowhere else. Family Creutz is mentioned under Ekelöf, Stubbe is not (1). Under Creutz, no references to any of the five people or the other two families is made (2). Family Stubbe does not exist (6)

-Adelsvapen can not make a link between the three families. The basic mistake of Adelsvapen is this. If studies just one of the families, the link to the other cannot be made, or the connection is difficult to make.

-So, both Runeberg and Adelsvapen are right about some things, but by presenting the data the way they do, they also create confusion. No data they present are complete, and synthesis cannot be made from any of the sources alone.

***** II. The Jägerhorn Issue *****

Margareta, i Härtonäs has been confused to be "Margareta Pedersdotter Järgerhorn af Hertonäs". And she has been claimed to be a daughter of Peder Jägerhorn af Spurila.

This claim is not true. It is outright ridiculous. Let's walk this claim through.

-If Margareta, i Härtonäs was born around 1424, then her name can not be "Jägerhorn af Spurila" let alone "Jägerhorn af Härtonäs". This is very simple. Nobody in 1424 would carry such name.

The first person to carry the name Jägerhorn (af Spurila) was Christer Claesson Jägerhorn, till Spurila only in 1625 (7)

The first person to carry the name Stubbe was Henrik Olofsson Stubbe, till Vekkjärvi, and again only in 1625, and to make another point, his brother, Gottskalk Olofsson was not entitled to the name, even though he was a "hovjunkare".

The first person to carry the name Creutz was Erengisle Larsson who changed his name to Ernst Creutz, till Sarvlaks in 1625.

Finally, Ekelöf. The first person entitled to the name was Claes Bertilsson Ekelöf, till Söderkulla, and only in 1636.

Before 1625 nobody was Jägerhorn, Stubbe or Creutz, and before 1636 nobody was Ekelöf. This is all very simple. The exact years can and should be set.

Now it's a jungle out there. People are granted with names and arms hundreds of years before due time.

***** III. The Hertonäs Issue *****

And to create more confusion, and the from confusion to extract clarity, there might have been some oddball frälsefamilies in Hertonäs. As in plural, "families". And they might have carried horn in their gears. But this does not make them members of families Horn or Jägerhorn. The story has it that they had received a letter, "frälsebref", but it either was eaten by a dog or burned by the Russians (8).

As a result, these people would later whine about the name, and may have received it! But both the families Jägerhorn - Jägerhorn af Spurila and Jägerhorn af Storby (which are not related), both disclaimed this bitching as untrue and, as a consequence, resulted in the birth of the name Jägerskiöld (8,9). First, in 1686 Claes Christersson was ennobled as "Jägerhorn", then as "von Jägerhorn", which finally was changed to "Jägerskiöld" in 1689 (9). The Jägerskiölds learned the power of whining, and in 1906 Christer Ludvig Edvard Jägerskiöld was adopted by Fridolf Leopold Hisinger. Christer Jägerskiöld was Hisinger's brother's son-in-law. And that resulted in the birth of a baronial family Hisinger-Jägerskiöld (n:o 29 in Finland) (10).

So, basically you can raise to the ranks of nobility by lying and whining.

***** IV. The Djäkn Angle *****

If anybody in Hertonäs ever actually received any letter, then it was "Olof Lydikssons enka" or "Olof Lydekesson's widow". B this token the letter was received by one of the families Diekn / Djäkn. Judging by the name one belonging to the "Lydekessönerna's" family Diekn. Only Lydeke had no son named Olof. But Rötker Olofsson's family starts from Olof. Only Olof's father is assumed to be Ivar, and the family lived in and around Naantali, and not in Helsinki. Moreover, not-so-trusted Anrep ponders that the family Jägerhorn af Spurila stems from Diekn / Djäkn but from Ingessönerna's family. But there was no Olof in that family. Also, the coat-of-arms of Ingessons is know, and there are two snakes on it, and no horns. In none of the families Diekn / Djäkn arms are there any horns. More importantly, there are no Margaretas n those families either (11). But the names on the beginning of the family Jägerskiöld (but not Jägerhorn af Spurila of Storby) sounds as if they might be of families Diekn / Djäkn (9).

***** V. Why the Misconception? *****

Margareta Jägerhorn af Hertonäs is a fictional figure. So is the family name, Jägerhorn af Hertonäs. It's all nothing short of result of somebody's fantasy. There never was a family under that name. It is easy to check up. Just browse the family trees of any family Jägerhorn or Jägerskiöld or Jäger-whatever. Jägermaister! The name is folklore. And nothing more. The Jägerhorns never even lived in Hertonäs. It is equally easy to check up.

Some members of Jägerhorn af Spurila did live in the current Helsinki metropolitan area but in Tuomarinkylä / Domarby in northern Helsinki and in Veromies in Vantaa. But not in Hertonäs.

Who did? The famous commander of Suomenlinna Carl Olof Cronstedt died in Hertonäs, but was not born there (12, 13). His mother was née Jägerhorn af Spurila. Hedvig Juliana (1720-1787) (7). But she did not spawn a family called Jägerhorn af Hertonäs. Had she done so, then Carl Olof Cronstedt's name would not be Cronstedt but he would be known as Carl Olof Jägerhorn af Hertonäs. And he is not known as Jägerhorn af Hertonäs but Cronstedt.

Fredrik Adolf Jägerhorn (af Spurila) was second in command in Suomenlinna with Cronstedt, and he was his second cousin. So, surely, members of Jägerhorns have visited Cronstedts. But not lived there. Fredrik Adolf was born in Domarby and died in Nykulla, Pernaja (14).

To whom is Margareta, i Härtonäs linked now? He would be Peder, i Hevonpää, and Hevonpää is located in Pernaja. Peder i Hevonpää is the stamfar of Jägerhorn af Spurila. He had a daughter, Margareta Pedersdotter.

Margareta, i Härtonäs is assumed to be born ca. 1624. Her son Erik is assumed dead before 1556.

The date of birth or death of Margareta Pedersdotter are unknown, but she had a brother who died ca. 1540. And she had a sister who is know to have lived in 1566 but having died before 1569. So the years do not add up. It is not possible she is born ca. 1424 and have a sister who was alive in 1556.

Furthermore, Margareta Persdotter was born in Hevonpää, and thus her name would be Margareta, i Hevonpää, not i Härtonäs. The only year attached to her is 1517 when she was a nun in Naantali, and not a harlot in Härtonäs. A nun!

Margareta Persdotter is not Margareta, i Härtonäs.

Finally. Wikipedia, however, still does claim that Jägerhorns did live in Hertonäs. And specifically in Hertonäs gård (15). But the very pages of Hertonäs gård do not mention a single Jägerhorn ever living there (13).

But Wikipedia does give a clue who might have lived there. He would be Henrik Thomas Jägerhorn.

Who is Henrik Thomas Jägerhorn?

He is Henrik Tomasson (not Thomas). And who belonged to those oddball Hertonäs families, and who have nothing to do with families Jägerhorn af Spurila or Jägerhorn af Storby, but rather to one of the families Diekn / Djäkn.

"Henrik Thomas" has his own page in Geni where he his called as "Henrik Tomasson Jägerhorn av Hertonäs" and a family tree to go with it. Tomasson. And the reference behind the name is already familiar to us. That would be Project Runeberg, and the oddball Hertonäs families, but not Jägerhorns (8).

Henrik Tomasson - who apparently did not have a known wife - had a son whose name was said to be Arvid Henriksson Jägerhorn, who was married to Anna Stålhana (16). There Anna has been said to be married to Arvid, who is called as Jägerhorn and who comes from a family from Hertonäs (Hertönässläkten) which was claimed to have raised to nobility but never was introduced. Or so the story has it. According to Runeberg, they had a daughter whose name was Margareta, and who was married to Henrik Blåfield, and who lived as a widow in 1708. But Adelsvapen knows of no Henrik Bläfield whose wife would have been Margareta (17).

So she is not our Margareta, i Hertonäs either.

In Geni, but not in Project Runeberg, where the source refers to, or anywhere else, Arvid is said to have a sister, Kristin. Still no mother to either Arvid or Kristin. And the Margareta who does not exist on the Blåfield family has a sister in Geni who has no name. So even if we believed Geni, then "Arvid Henriksson Jägerhorn till Härtonäs" as Geni calls it (obs, "till" and Härtonäs" now), had existed, the name would have died with him (18). And he would have been the one and only with that name, and nobody else. For his father was not a Jägerhorn.

Finally, Geni even suggests that I am related to Arvid. And that the family stems from the family Bielke! From Karin Eriksdotter Bielke. His daughter is:
-Ingeborg Larsdotter Jägerhorn af Hertonäs. Then the name changes af → av. Her son is:
-Tomas Lydiksson Jägerhorn av Hertonäs. This name refers to the Diekns / Djäkns. His son is:
-Henrik Tomasson Jägerhorn av Hertonäs, whose name was not Jägerhorn in any source. Finally, with a change in the name from av → till, we have:
-Arvid Henriksson Jägerhorn till Härtonäs.

The circle is complete. Two conclusions:

1. Margaret, i Härtonäs is not a daughter of Peder i Hevonpää. And her name does not come up anywhere in the context to families from Hertonäs or families Diekn / Djäkn.

2. There never was a family called "Jägerhorn af Hertonäs". If there was, then there was only one person with that name ever. Arvid. And he seems to be, not "af Hertonäs" but rather "till Härtonäs". People in Hertonäs might have wanted to call themselves as Jägerhorn, but the real Jägerhorns did not approve that, hence "Jägerskiöld". People in Geni like to grant people with dandy names. That does not make them true.

I rest my case.

References:

1. http://runeberg.org/frfinl/0097.html

2. http://runeberg.org/frfinl/0078.html

3. https://www.adelsvapen.com/genealogi/Stubbe_nr_72

4. https://www.adelsvapen.com/genealogi/Ekel%C3%B6f_nr_217

5. https://www.adelsvapen.com/genealogi/Creutz_nr_92

6. http://runeberg.org/frfinl/

7. https://www.adelsvapen.com/genealogi/J%C3%A4gerhorn_af_Spurila_nr_114

8. http://runeberg.org/frfinl/0236.html

9. https://www.adelsvapen.com/genealogi/J%C3%A4gerski%C3%B6ld_nr_1100

10. https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hisinger

11. http://runeberg.org/frfinl/0087.html

12. https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Olof_Cronstedt

13. http://hertonasgard.fi/suomi/esittely/henkilot/

14. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredrik_Anders_J%C3%A4gerhorn

15. https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herttoniemen_kartano

16. https://www.adelsvapen.com/genealogi/St%C3%A5lhane_nr_292

17. https://www.adelsvapen.com/genealogi/Bl%C3%A5field_nr_245

18. Lt. Arvid Henriksson, till Hertonäs

Private User
15.9.2017 в 6:21 до полудня

Hei Mikko, hieno selvitys!

Yksi huomio. Sanot "So, according to the Project Runeberg, Lasse, I Gästerby and Margareta, i Härtonäs had three children, and that they are the ancestors of the family Ekelöf and Creutz (1) but not Stubbe."
Kuitenkin viitteessä (1) Tab II Peder Larssonin poika Lars Pedersson mainitaan "Stamfader för adliga ätten Stubbe, n:r 72 (4)" ja viittaus 4. Borgå D 1593 28/3.
Minusta myös vaikuttaa siltä, että Project Runeberg loppuu kesken. Viimeisenä käsiteltynä sukuna on Spåre ja viimeisen sivun numero on 420. Ramsayn Frälsesläkter i Finland intill stora ofreden kirjassa on kuitenkin 592 sivua ja suomalaisia aatelissukuja aakkosissa Spåren jälkeen.
Tilasin itselleni kirjan digitaalisena Sukututkijan verkkokaupasta. Nyt vain odottelen, tilauksen käsittelyä. Sitten pääsen tarkistamaan.

15.9.2017 в 10:26 до полудня

Kiitos Elina. Tarkoitin juuri samaa mitä sinä. Snä puit sen sanoiksi, mitä ajattelin. Että Runeberg "loppuu kesken". Lasten ja sukujen määrä on koko ajan kolme. Mutta mitä ja miten eri lähteissä sanotaan, vaihtelee. Jos siis tyydyt vain yhteen lähteeseen, voit helposti saada väärän kuvan ja mennä höplään. Siksi juuri useiden lähteiden vertailu on se mikä tuottaa hedelmää.

Ja ehkä liian monista lähteistä Ekelöf painottuu eniten, vaikka se suku kolmesta aateloitiin viimeiseksi. Se taas näkyy kun pläräät profiileja. Vaikka ketään ei edes vielä ollut aateloitu, niin lähes kaikkien profiileissa on siitä huolimatta Ekelöfien vaakuna.

Private User
17.9.2017 в 12:31 после полудня

Sain Ramsayni.

Kuten arveltiinkin, S-sukuja Spåren jälkeen sekä myöhempiä aakkosissa on kirjan lopussa. Stubbe kirjan sivulla 439, Stubbe. Bolstad-släkten sivulla 440 sekä Stubbe till Ny Bollstad sivulla 442.

" Stubbe.
Adlad 1587 5/9 med vapen: "en afbruten lindestubbe med rot under och ett grönt löf på hvardera sidan om stubben uti ett blått fält. Item en öppen tornerhjälm, kransen och hjälmtäcktet gönt och rödt, däruppå två gröna löf i kors". -- Aldelskapet bekräftadt 1589 9/8 med vidstående vapen. Introducerad 1625 under n:r 72 på Svenska Riddarhuset. Utgången på svärdssidan 1635 eller 1636. Denna introducerade ätt Stubbe är bortlämnad ur Anreps ättärtaflor, och ersatt med den ointroducerade släkten af samma namn fån Bollstad i INgå socken. -- Under namnet Väckjärvi-släkten, finns denna introducerade ätt, n:r 72, däremot intagen bland Schlegel & Klingspors Ättar-taflor öfver Sveriges med sköldebref förlänade, icke inskrifna adel. Ätten Ekestubbe, som egde samma ursprung, antog vid introduktionen samma vapen (se Ekestubbe och Ekelöf).

Tab. I.
Lasse i Gästerby i Sibbo socken, gift med Margareta i Härtonäs.
Barn:
Peder Larsson, länsman in Sibbon 1511. Tab, II.
Erik Larsson i Gästerby. Stamfader för ätten Ekelöf, n:r 217.
Margareta, gift med Lars Mattsson (Creutz, n:r 96).

Tab. II.
Peder Larsson, länsman 1511 i Sibbo (tab. I.).
Barn:
Nils Pedersson, i Gästerby. Ingick arfskifte 1539 med sin hustrus broder, Jakob Olofsson (Stubbe, Bollstad-släkten). -- Gift med Margareta Olofsdotter, dotter af Olof Jakobsson till Bollstad, som i vapnet förde ett jägernhorn. Antagligen var han samme Nils Pedersson, som 1553-55 var fognde i Borgå län. I sådant fall återfinnes han pag. 227, såsom stamfader för Jägernhorn, General Torsten Stålhandskes mödernesläkt.
Lars Pdersson i Veckjärvi (2). Tab. III."

jne.

Toivottavasti sain kopioitua ilman kirjoitusvirheitä.

19.9.2017 в 2:10 до полудня

Elina Puranen, till Lammaskallio i Tervå socken,

Hienoa, kiitos.

Sait oman Ramsayn? Fyysisen kirjan? Mistä? Divarista?

Kiitos näkemästäsi vaivasta. Bongaan vain pari kirjoitusvirhettä...

Nyt minua kiinnostaisi Stubbe, mutta myös Ekestubbe. (Ja vielä Svinhufvud, mutta sillä ei ole mitään tekemistä tämän asian kanssa.)

Voitko katsoa Peder Larssonin jälkeläisiä? En nyt pysty itse katsomaan niitä, kun nakutan tekstiä puhelimestani.

Mutta vilkaisin hänen poikansa äsken läpi. Ne ovat just nuo Nils ja Lars.

Nilsin sukunimi jatkui vielä muodossa Nils, i Gästerby. Mutta nyt huomaan, että hänellä on vaimo, sukua Bollstad. Ja heille ei ole merkitty lapsia, mutta heillä on 5000 jälkeläistä. Mikäs piru siinä nyt on?

Larsin nimi taas muuttuu muotoon till Vekkjärvi.

Ja hänellä on poika, Olof, josta lähtee suku Stubbe.

Mutta hänellä on myös nimetön tytär, NN, josta lähtee suku Ekestubbe.

En löytänyt siitä huolimatta nimeä mistään. Miten on, löytyisikö hänen nimensä Ramsaystasi?

Private User
20.9.2017 в 3:04 до полудня

Tilasin kirjan digitoituna Sukututkijan verkkokaupasta (Suomen sukututkimusseura) hintaan 5 € eli ei edes paljoa kirpaissut.

Itse en Ramsayta kuitenkaan karvoineen nahkoineen nielaisisi. Siellä on virheitä, jotka myöhempi tutkimus on korjannut. Jos mahdollista niin tarkastettava muista lähteistä.

https://kauppa.genealogia.fi/

terveisin Elina

Private User
20.9.2017 в 3:17 до полудня

Pikaisen Ekestubbe silmäilyn perusteella Ekestubbeksi aateloitu majuri Henrik Larsson, k. 1660.
Hänen isänsä on underlagman Lars Bertilsson till Olkkala i Vichtis socken, k noin 1640, jonka ensimmäinen puoliso on Brita Ekelöf, dotter af Henrik Hansson och Dordi Larsdotter (Teet). Toinen puoliso Margareta Knutsdotter, enka efter en präst, vid namn Anders.
Ramsayn mukaan kaikki tiedetyt lapset ovat ensimmäisestä avioliitosta.

20.9.2017 в 5:02 до полудня

Jos haluat, niin fiksaa. En jaksa...

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