Ralph 'Wheelright' Allen, Sr., of Sandwich - Confusion between Ralph 'Wheelright' Allen, Sr., of Sandwich and Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich

Angus Wood-Salomon
yesterday at 7:26 PM
To distinguish between the two we called 'Ralph Sr.' son of George Allen Ralph 'Wheelright' Allen, Sr., of Sandwich https://www.geni.com/people/Ralph-Allen-Sr-of-Sandwich/600000000337...

We called Ralph Jr,. Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich https://www.geni.com/people/Ralph-Allen-Jr-of-Sandwich/600000001266...

I just disconnected Esther (Swift) Bull as the husband of Ralph 'Wheelright' Allen, Sr., of Sandwich
"She was twice married. Prior to 1647, Esther m. 1) Ralph Allen, Jr., b. at England Identified as a mason, Ralph is called Jr. in the Sandwich, Mass. town records to distinguish him from an older Ralph Allen of Sandwich, called Sr"

They are so easy to confuse as we know ...

Perhaps Richardson B. Allen can give us a concise précis of three generations for the profile overviews?

Angus Wood-Salomon
yesterday at 7:48 PM
Ralph Jr. seemed to have inherited a daughter Esther Allen of Newport b 1648 https://www.geni.com/people/Esther-Allen-of-Newport/600000000307567... according to the revisions
'Hester was added as Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, of Sandwich's child by Vl Beck.
Oct 17, 2015 at 10:22 AM"
then
'Hester was merged into Esther Allen of Newport by Vl Beck.
Oct 17, 2015 at 10:24 AM · view · undo'

https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=68433489200

According to the 'About Me' of Ralph Jr. 'The Ralph who was the father of Jedediah was also found to have had children born at Sandwich named Experience and Ephraim in 1651 and 1656'

No Hester nor no Esther....

Richardson B. Allen would you look into that also.

Richardson Allen
yesterday at 8:24 PM
Angus,

I'm afraid that the only relationship of another Allen with Ralph Allen Jr. was the John Allen who married Elizabeth Bacon of Barnstable, and moved to RI. Ralph Jr.'s first child was Jedediah Allen, b. Jan 3 1646[/7?]. Ralph Sr.'s first two sons, John and Joseph were first mentioned in court for not taking the oath of fidelity on Jun 1 1658 and Jun 7 1659, suggesting that they were about 18 years old then. Thus they were born about 1640 or about 6-7 years older than Jedediah. Both John and Joseph are mentioned in Ralph Sr.'s 1691 will. A map of the houses of Sandwich in 1667 lists two houses of Jedediah at the age of about 21, and no mention of Ralph Jr., so it is very likely that Ralph Jr. had already died.

Unfortunately, the first mention of a possible wife of Ralph Sr. is the witnesses of the marriage of Edward Wanton and Mary Phillips on the twenty fifth day of the seventh month of 1676, well after Ralph's children were born. So we don't really know who was the mother of Ralph's children. Ralph was finally mentioned in 1696[7?]: Petition to William Stoughton Lt. Governor of Mass. Bay, requesting approval of disposition of necks of land at Sandwich according to meeting 16 Mar 1696[/7?], signed by Ralph Allin & John Allin [MA Archives, v. 113, #145].

I am a descendant of John Allen's youngest son, Judah Allen. I have found two other descendants of Judah who, like me, have Y-chromosome haplogroup I1, totally different from other descendants of George Allen who are haplogroup R1b, despite the clear paper trail. So either Judah or his father John is not really an Allen. I suspect that John might have been adopted by Ralph Sr., but after an extensive search of the original records there is no hint of what happened. If you ever run across an Allen descendant of one of Judah's brothers, Isaac or Benjamin, I'd love to get a Y-chromosome test on him!

Thanks,
Richardson

Richardson Allen
yesterday at 9:21 PM
About Hester Allen, my note is: There is also the record of the birth 8 Dec 1648 of a Hester Allen, again thought to be a daughter of one of the Ralph Allens.

Vital Records Massachusetts to 1885, by Kardell and Lovell, 1996, v. 1, p. 3, lists a "hester Allen was born the 8th of December" (1648). On v. 2, p. 1248, "Henery Bull of Road island & esther Allen of sandwich took each other in marriage ye fourteeneth Day of ye twelvth moneth in ye yeare one thousand six hundred sixty & foure." Since the marriage of "esther" is only 16 years after the birth of "hester", I think that the marriage was between Hester Allen widow of Ralph Allen Jr. and Henry Bull, and that the earlier "hester" Allen must have died. I think that Ralph Jr. died about 1659.

Ralph Allen Jr. had children:
Jedediah Allen b. 3 Jan 1646[7],
Experience Allen b. 14 Mar 1651[2], and
Ephraim Allen b. 26 Mar 1656.
There is a gap in which "hester" might have been born. Since Ralph Jr. married Esther or Hester Swift by 1646, it appears to be consistent.

Richardson

Erica Howton

Richardson started an 'Attention Managers' message so I transfered it into a Public Discussion so it would be recorded on the profile.

Some of the links may not work that were copy and pasted

Proper link for Hester Esther Allen

Proper link for Revisions on Hester
https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=68433489200

When we first stated the messages Esther Susannah (Swift) Bull/Allen Esther Bull was connected to Ralph Allen Sr so I disconnected that relationship

I asked Richardson to look into this
'According to the 'About Me' of Ralph Jr. 'The Ralph who was the father of Jedediah was also found to have had children born at Sandwich named Experience and Ephraim in 1651 and 1656'

No Hester nor no Esther.... on the tree it shows Esther Allen as a daughter

This was his reply as shown above
Richardson Allen
yesterday at 9:21 PM
About Hester Allen, my note is: There is also the record of the birth 8 Dec 1648 of a Hester Allen, again thought to be a daughter of one of the Ralph Allens.

Vital Records Massachusetts to 1885, by Kardell and Lovell, 1996, v. 1, p. 3, lists a "hester Allen was born the 8th of December" (1648). On v. 2, p. 1248, "Henery Bull of Road island & esther Allen of sandwich took each other in marriage ye fourteeneth Day of ye twelvth moneth in ye yeare one thousand six hundred sixty & foure." Since the marriage of "esther" is only 16 years after the birth of "hester", I think that the marriage was between Hester Allen widow of Ralph Allen Jr. and Henry Bull, and that the earlier "hester" Allen must have died. I think that Ralph Jr. died about 1659.

Ralph Allen Jr. had children:
Jedediah Allen b. 3 Jan 1646[7],
Experience Allen b. 14 Mar 1651[2], and
Ephraim Allen b. 26 Mar 1656.
There is a gap in which "hester" might have been born. Since Ralph Jr. married Esther or Hester Swift by 1646, it appears to be consistent.

Richardson

All,

Is there any way that I can put on-line a slightly more recent of my 1997 text on the two Ralph Allens? I have copies in Word and PDF.

Thinking about Ralph, the will of George Allen's, probated in 1649, may be important. This is and abstract of George's will:

The will of "Georg Allen the elder late of Sandwidge," undated, proved 7 Jun 1649, "I give to all my children twelve pence apiece. I give unto my sonne Matthew one calfe and five shillings. I give unto my wife the ould cow. I leave my house and household stufe to my wife during the time she continuith unmarried. (If she remarried, as she did--the remaining goods and land were to be divided between "the five least children"). I give to my five least children a Cow apiece. I give unto my sonn, William, the meadow I bought of Peter Gaunt being in the 2nd Division for my lands and the rest of my meadow I give to my sons Henry and Samuel, my adventure in the barque to my wife and the least children. Wife "Katheren Allen" to be executrix, and Ralph Allen and Richard Bourne to be overseers. "Wittness my hand, George Allen. In presence of William Loveridge, John Vincent, Richard Bourne."

Note that Ralph Allen was an overseer, and Ralph Allen Sr. first appears in Sandwich in about 1650. There is also the birth of an Ebenezer Allen (son of Ralph Sr. mentioned in Ralph's will) on 10 Feb 1649/50 on the second page of the "1649 Sandwidge Regester of the beirth of their Children" (Vital Records of Sandwich of Massachusetts to 1885, by Kardell and Lovell, NEHGS, Boston, 1996, v. 1, p. 5).

I suspect that Ralph Allen son of George was George's first child. There are no deeds associated with Ralph's move from Rehoboth to Sandwich.

Richardson

Absolutely upload as PDF. Sources tab, add source document, navigate to your doc on your computer (on line URLs also accepted). When the upload completes retitle to English and put source attribution in the description, you can link to an event on the timeline also. And cite facts (tick off box). Use a blank box to make an additional comment.

I see that there is already a copy of the text from the web version. I'll put in the PDF version with embedded footnotes. It will take me 1-2 weeks to clean up the genealogy text. A year or two ago I moved the full genealogy to a newer program, but it did not handle well all the embedded citations. My notes for George and Ralph (including the 2 Ralph text) are a few pages with dozens of embedded citations in the text note fields, so it takes some time to figure out where the citations should be put. Unfortunately there is no existing Windows program that allows embedded citations in text notes, so I'm now using Genbox.

Just put the 2 Ralphs PDF in the Allen Project documents.

Good to meet you Richardson B. Allen. I am a descendant of Ralph Allen's brother.

Hello. I've been focused on Ralph son of George, my ancestor. When I started looking at George's family about 25 years, I found that it was a mess. So when I moved to Salt Lake, I started collecting any Allen data in SE Massachusetts in the 1600's to 1700's, thanks to easy access to the Family History Library. Haven't put together all of George's family, and nothing about the descendants that moved to NJ, but I have the data if I ever expand the genealogy. So let me know if you need help. I have limited time, given work and my only research, but I might have some time.

Harte,
Richardson Allen and I share Haplotype I-M253. Some others share the same marker. Have you taken full DNA testing? I am travelling away from home right now so only have cell phone contact. When I return home in a few days I will be in a better position to contribute to this discussion.
William Arthur Allen

Hatte,
Sorry for the typo error. I am an old great grandfather with a vision problem so my cell phone keys are difficult to use.
William Srthur Allen

William Arthur Allen I have done autosomal testing on Ancestry and FTDNA and have transferred to Gedmatch.

This is far enough back that a single shared pair of nth great grandparents is not likely to result in a match but if like me a large amount of your ancestry is Great Migration, we may in fact share DNA.

I am new to DNA research but have undertaken testing with 2 companies, one of which reported 95% confidence that I am descended from Colonial New England. My paper trail takes me back to both Ralph Stonemason Allen and Ralph Wheelright Allen.

Everyone,

Might have found another relative of Jedediah Allen son of Ralph Allen Jr.
There is a Society of Friends marriage in Newport, RI in 1677: William Allen late of Newyorke now resident Road Island married widow Patience Beere of same Island, Newport, witnesses include Jeddida Allen and Elizabeth Allen, but not John Allen, 16:3mo:1677. Also notice an intention of marriage of William Allen and Patience Beere, William producing certificates from London and Flushing, consented by the meeting 30:2mo:1677. It is possible that Jedediah was related to William. This is the only marriage in Rhode Island in which Jedediah was a witness.
Sources: Family History Library: Society of Friends, Rhode Island meeting, Marriage Certificates, 1643-1775, film 0022414, item 3, p. 5.
Ibid., Society of Friends, RI meeting, Men's Meeting, film 0022417, items 1, 1676-1708, p. 3.

The marriage is listed in the "New England Marriages Prior to 1700", p. 13: William Allen (1629-1718) & Patience (Clifton) Beere, w John; 16 May 1677; Newport, RI

William died in Newport on 18:1mo:1718/9, while Patience died in Newport on 16: 8mo: 1691/2.

This morning I went to my paper files photocopied over 30 years ago during a research trip to New England and found a poor copy of a record entitled "Records of the West Parish of Barnstable Massachusetts 1668-1807." In barely legible handwriting is an entry that seems to be worded as follows:

"John Allen a child of the church of a Competent age upon the account of fornication was visited by the Elder with the Consent of the church the 11th day of the 8th month Anno 1674 -"

A second 3 line entry names John Allen but is completely illegible.

Does anyone have a better copy of this document?

I checked, and there are two copies of the text in the Family History Library, a "microfilm of a manuscript filmed at the Rhode Island Historical Society, Providence"; Family History Library, microfilm 22364, items 4 and 5 (two copies). I'll check it today.