Alaric of Silkstone - How Do I know.........

There are several things that you seem to be asking, Stephen, but I will focus on the "proof."

On Geni, we work collaboratively, and we discuss our sources, when we have disagreements, and we come to the best conclusion we can.

And what we have to discuss varies according to time and place.

For recent generations, for which we have birth certificates and census information and the like, disagreements will happen when there are contradictions in the official records.

Further back, when we are relying on land records and wills and court documents, we will sometimes need to argue about exactly where people belong. We might have a great many people with the same last name in an area, for instance, it have disagreements about how they are related.

There are unreliable sources -- family web trees that don't cite their sources, for instance, aren't reliable because anybody can say anything -- and there are more reliable sources -- solidly researched histories and genealogies.

When we can get them, the best sources are primary sources. Wills; birth and death and marriage certificates; land records; court cases; ships' registries; church records.

But early primary sources are very difficult; even if we can get to them, very few of us can read them. So for the medieval evidence we tend to rely on scholars and scholarly transcriptions. So we have to discuss how reliable the scholars are.

So.

The kind of proof that genealogical societies require would be primary sources, for the most part. So for them you need copies of the wills and certificates and such like.

The question is, to whom do you wish to prove your line? If it's a society, you need the paperwork. If it's Geni, you need to be able to argue the validity of your sources. If it is for your own use, you need only to convince yourself.

But these are different entities, with different requirements.

Great questions and answers.

So much depends on what you need to satisfy, and to whom. You'll get wise guys (prigs) who will take you down if you boast a claim, that sounds like the unpleasant experience Private User had.

So for instance, my father used to tell us we descended from John of Gaunt. Actually, the math is there to say that x % of people with English ancestry descend from him, so who am I to argue with percentages & probabilities? :). But if I want to "prove" exactly how, when, where ... Lost cause. Unbelievably tedious. And why? I'm not claiming any thrones.

However, if I wanted to join certain societies (why) I probably would need a 100 page register report, each line properly annotated, using a desktop software program, with book citations for every step of the lineage, until we get to more recent times and copies of the primary documents.

You may be trying for the Mayflower Society through an as yet unproven line. However if you have one ancestor on that ship, you'll have more; there was no one else to marry. So if membership there is of interest to you, look in your tree some more.

Thank you. I've been doing this for 20 years. I had my family back through the Adams' family back to Alaric of Silkstone. Then I found your site, and William Vassell..............and this this option to to click and trace your history back............I still ended up at Alaric of Silkstone then Flaald fitz Flaald, Seneschal de Dol en Bretagne BUT Through Vassel, not through the Adams' Family, yet, although it ends up with Richard Adam coming to the colonies. So Now I'm confused again. I don't care about societies etc. I just want to get it it straight in my head! Right now Vassell, held the patent on the Mass bay Colony and the other side of my family was on the Mayflower one couldn't have come without the other! But neither knew each the other that I know of yet as they came from Lydon (sp).

Ok, what I have now is: Flaald, Seneschal de Dol en Bretagne is your 28th great grandfather.

I'm sharing this to see if I duplicate anyone:
https://www.geni.com/path/Stephen-Burr+is+related+to+Flaald-Senesch...

We went for years not knowing where the family name came from past my 5th great grandfather. Then recently, Geni has a path taking my family back through the Mayflower, all the way to William the Conqueror. But not one shred of source support is cited. It's fun in a way, but I don't had it to my personal chart. However, if some source should come to light, having the Geni path may help you in taking the next step back in time.

Good use of the relationship finder tool!
Your critical ancestor is Frances Adams (Vassall)

From that profile view try the ancestor report. Do the same for her husband.

I haven’t done it but I suspect you’ll find the path to Alaric is on the Vassal side, not the Adams.

There is also the ability to pushpin between two profiles and see their relationship path, I’ll post a help screen for it if you like.

Steven Mitchell Ferry if you can highlight the Mayflower with the illustrious ancestry I’d like to take a look

I found and corrected an error in the Adams tree; we don’t know his origins. That will change your paths.

Source document attached to him;

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000027455588469&

Erica Howton this is the person I mentioned. Of course, there are at least two others whom accompanied her.

Joan Tilley (Hurst), "Mayflower" Passenger

Stephen, Regards your earlier post:

I'm sharing this to see if I duplicate anyone:
https://www.geni.com/path/Stephen-Burr+is+related+to+Flaald-Senesch...

I see a problem in that you have Matilda Fitzswain's daughter listed as Mable de la Mare and then her daughter as Olive de la Mare. The daughter of Matilda & Adam Fitzswain married Adam de Montbegon and after his death married John Malherbe. From this marriage came Maude Malherbe (who you have listed incorrectly as Maude Fitzswain). Maude Malherbe then married William de la Mare and had a daughter Mabel de la Mare who married Geoffrey Neville.

So basically there isn't as far as I can see any direct connection between Sarah de Thornhill to Olive de la Mare to Maude de la Mare.

It might be that you or someone has confused the sister of Mabel de la Mare, Olive de la Mare who's second husband was John de Thornhill and they had a daughter by the name of Sarah.

So, my suggestion from Sarah would be > mother = Mable Malherbe > grandmother = Maude Fitzswein > Gt grandfather = Adam Fitzswein > Gt Gt grandfather = Swein Fitzalric > Gt Gt Gt grandfather = Alric of Cawthorne

Now, given that both Alric and his son Swein were documented as being landowners in 1066, Alric's date of birth could not have been after 1035. That makes it impossible for Flaald to have been his Father.

Steven Mitchell Ferry

She’s documented (overview needs cleanup) so she’s the daughter of those parents, but my eyebrows raise here:

Sir Edward Hurst, Sir

If you start a discussion from his son’s profile let’s see if we can prove or disprove parent

happened is that the side of the family that would "least" likely to go back this far has! I grew up with my Dad's family all posh looking down at mu Mom's family because they were from the wrong side of the side of tracks. So this all very surprising! My Dad's family does come from the MayFlower and I have that proven, not to the Mayflower Society standards, yet. Some day maybe.

Private User it really is amazing how trees can connect. Keep up the good work.

Given that there is nothing posted to support the parentage of Alric through the Fitzflaald line and that the Domesday Book clearly disproves the given dob by around 40 years, and therefore disproves the lineage, I don't see why this page has not been corrected.

Anne Brannen Clive has uploaded sources for us all on Alaric of Silkstone

Should we go ahead and disconnect him as son of Flaald fitz Flaald, Seneschal de Dol-de-Bretagne & wife of Flaald fitz Flaald

Sounds good to me. Thanks to Clive!

The The Chartulary of St John of Pontefract give several clues into the biography of Alric who is referred to as Ailric in the document.

His son Swein is described as being a 'young man' at the time of the conquest and is recorded as holding several lordships in 1066. From that we can deduce that Alric may have been around 35 - 40 in 1066.

His death is described as being around the same time that William I and Ilbert de Lacy died, that is 1087 - 1093 respectively. The text further states that Ilbert's successor had already been granted his Father's lands by the new King and allowed Swain to inherit most of Alric's lands thus putting Alric's death around 1093 or slightly later.

There is no mention of any other offspring so we can assume that Swain was his only child, or certainly his only heir.

I wish I had an answer to help solve this dilemma - however I find that I too have the same questions as you - and then you have brought forth even more questions . some unknown to me - such as with the mayflower and it costing to claim the ability to join . '''' I plugged in this man and found that per all of our records and research that he is my 26th great uncle
.... Nice to meet the relatives

Andrea

And with all my research . I am now completely stumped and baffled . as I find Kings Queens, Emperor , all kinds of Royal bloodlines straight up my tree - as grandparents . I am IN AWE . is this true . I do agree with you . I am at a loss as to what to do next .
Andrea

not trying to hijack thread . - just a thought .

My Geological line is here also. Thanks for the info. Most I have, but some are new and interesting.

Well said.

It is a long line. Part of my line goes to Aleric; my wife's family line.
From it, the Allen name came a long way.

Alaric of Silkstone is your 27th great grandfather.
You
→ Alice Childers
your mother → Charles Childers
her father → Mary Martha Childers
his mother → James Uriah Seaton
her father → Kenner Houser Seaton
his father → James B. Seaton
his father → Mary Ann Seaton
his mother → Maj. Howson Francis Kenner
her father → Hannah Kenner
his mother → Elizabeth “Betsy” Turberville
her mother → Ann Lee
her mother → Francis Constable
her father → Robert Constable, II
his father → Robert Constable, of Kent
his father → Thomas Constable, MP
his father → Sir Robert Constable, Kt., of Yorkshire
his father → Sir Marmaduke Constable
his father → Lady Agnes Constable
his mother → Sir Roger Wentworth
her father → Sir John Wentworth
his father → Joan de Tyas
his mother → Alice le Tyas
her mother → Sarah Thornhill Tankersley
her mother → Olive de la Mare
her mother → Mable de la Mare
her mother → Matilda fitz Swain
her mother → Adam fitz Swain
her father → Swaine fitz Alaric
his father → Alaric of Silkstone
his father

As posted before the lineage through Olivia de la Mare may not be correct. There may be an error in respect of her maiden name and married name.

Matilda Fitzswain was married to Adam Fitzswain had two daughters Matilda (Maude) and Mabel (Amabel) who shared Adam's considerable inheritance. So Mabel would have been Mabel Fitzswain not Mabel de la Mare. She married Alexander de Crevequer.