Sir Richard de Camville of Oxfordshire - Yes there were two Richard de Camvilles

Private User

2/2/2018 at 6:07 PM

One was (probably) the son of Gerald/Gerard de Camville and Alice de Vere, lived in Oxfordshire, had no known brothers and two sons, Richard and Roger (who predeceased his brother and probably his father, leaving no heirs). This is the Stanton harcourt line, which terminated with a third(?) consecutive Richard who went off and died at the siege of Acre, leaving his sister Isabel and his sister's husband (Robert d'Harcourt) to inherit - which is how "Harcourt" got appended to the manor's name. (As far as I know it is *still* in the Harcourt family.)

The other one belonged to a different branch of the family (I have him as Walter's son, but the only near-certainty is that he did NOT have the same father as Richard of Oxfordshire), lived in Warwickshire, founded Combe Abbey, had a brother Hugh who predeceased *him*, and at least *four* sons starting with the Gerard de Camville who married Nicolaa de la Haye.This line lasted till the end of the 13th century before finally daughtering out.

It's all too easy to mix the two of them up, and even MedLands did so. But careful attention to who was where and in what family context proves there were two of him.

Linda Wellman

2/4/2018 at 6:19 AM

Interesting post, Maven!
Geni's Push Pin gave me the following relationships:

Richard "Puignant" (grandfather of Richard of Oxfordshire) <--> his brother, Walter de Camville --> his son, Sir Richard de Camville of Warwickshire --> his son, Gerard de Camville, Castellan of Windsor Castle

Private User

2/4/2018 at 10:45 AM

The Camvilles are an interesting tangle, complicated by the factoid that at least two of them went under the byname "Puignant" until they had gotten their hands on some English land and settled down on it. (One of them seems to have kept the byname and founded one or more families under it.)

That the earlier forms of the name are "Canoville" and "Canouille" suggest that they came, not from Canville-les-Deux-Eglises as is popularly believed, but from nearby Canouville. The Battle Abbey and Falaise Rolls actually cite "(Gautier) Le Sire de Canouville" as instrumental in assisting William I to victory. (This does not mean that he was present at Hastings himself, but more likely that he supplied money, arms, and men - including some sons.)

What Canouville has in its favor besides a better spelling match is a history that goes back to Gallo-Roman times and evidence that it was once fortified circa the 11th century.

Ian Robert Hampson

7/12/2021 at 2:32 AM

From "Domesday People Revisited" by Oxford University's Katharine Keats-Rohan:

"Geoffrey {de Traili} had first occurred in the public records when he accounted for the custody of the widow of Richard de Camville and her son on the Pipe Roll of 1129/30."

So which Richard was dead by 1130? The Trailis seem to have been in Bedfordshire / Cambridgeshire at this time.

Private User

7/12/2021 at 6:53 AM

Insufficient documentation, Ian. There were at least four or five branches of the Camville family in England already, and they all kept reusing the same few first names. *Probably* not the Oxfordshire (Stanton Harcourt) branch, but the others are up for grabs. (Trailli holdings were on the north border of Bedfordshire, contiguous with Northamptonshire, but that may not be much help.)

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Sir Richard de Camville of Oxfordshire - Yes there were two Richard de Camvilles

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