Andrew Stewart, 1st Lord Avandale - Parents?

Started by Erica Howton on Tuesday, May 14, 2019
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5/14/2019 at 6:35 PM

Private User Writes:

According to the Dictionary of National Biography, his father is Walter Stewart of Morphie. Alexander Stewart was his brother, who succeeded Andrew Stewart, 1st Baron of Avondale (d. 1488, leaving behind no issue). When Alexander died, Andrew succeeded him.

Mark Steven Jacobson Notes:

Per Clan MacFarlane, and clan genealogy, Walter Stewart, 1st of Morthie, had sons Alexander of Avandale.... and Andrew of Laurencekirk,,,,,,, Avandale passed to Alexander's son Andrew, 1st Lord Andrew, Andrew of Laurencekirk, his uncle, had a son David of Inchbreck.....

References:

https://www.stewartsociety.org/history-of-the-stewarts.cfm?section=...

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1981/31205_Vol18-01191?pid=100...

Link to screenshot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AdBxOjGf1q_Gj23AjbulVVJUVxngsKVR/v...

5/14/2019 at 6:36 PM

Eugene Thomas Can you take a look?

I’ll try to give the Clan MacFarlane site also.

5/14/2019 at 6:45 PM

Correction: this is Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Stewart,_1st_Lord_Avondale_(se...

Has his father as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Stewart,_1st_Lord_Avandale

With a comment: Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900, Volume 54. This source suggests he was the son of Walter Stewart, who died in 1425, executed along with his father the Duke of Albany. Retrieved 26 November 2010

5/14/2019 at 8:52 PM

show now sow

5/14/2019 at 9:04 PM

http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00006151&tree=LEO

Father Alexander Stewart, of Avandale, of Avandale , d. 1489

5/16/2019 at 1:42 PM

So how does a 3 generation look to you?

And have we looked at Scots Peerage?

5/16/2019 at 2:59 PM

http://www.wallbring.se/ochiltree.html

" The Scots Peerage a history of the noble families of Scotland ".

ANDREW STEWART SECOND LORD AVANDALE
Was grand-nephew of first Lord, being son of Alexander,son of Walter Stewart of Morphie, the brother of the first Lord Avandale. It has been alleged that this Walter
Stewart was, unlike Lord Avandale, a legitimate son of Sir Walter Stewart, son of the Regent Murdoch of Abany, by a marriage with Janet, daughter of Sir Thomas
Erskine, for which he had a dispensation from pope Martin V, 27 may 1421. If however, he was legitimate, it is difficult to explain why he received whit his brothers
letters of legitimation on 17 april 1479, and also how his descendants claims to the throne as sole male descendants of King Robert II were disregarded completely on
the death of King James V. Andrew was a minor at his father´s death, and had sasine of the Barony of Avandale 8 october 1498.

He and his wife received a charter of confirmation of the Barony of Morphie fresale 4 february 1499-1500, and he is there styled Lord Avandale, so that the title must
have been conferred upon him before that date. He was Lord of the Bedchamber to King James IV, and sat as Lord in parliament in 1503 and 1505. He was killed at
Flodden 9 sep. 1513, having married before 4 feb. 1499-1500, Margaret daughter of John second Lord Kennedy, by whom he had issue :-

1. ANDREW, his successor.

2. HENRY created Lord Methven after his marriage with the Queen-Dowager, Margaret Tudor. (see title Methven). He supported the Earl of Arran against Angust
in 1524. He owed his advancement, however to the favour of the Queen-Dowager Margaret Tudor, widow of King James IV who became attracted by him about
1526, when he held the office of Master Carver to the King her son. The Queen was then in the midst of her quarrel with the Earl of Angus, her second husband,
and was soon completely governed by Henry Stewart, who favoured the English alliance. She appointed him treasurer, Lord Chancellor, and keeper of the seals, and
he ´ordered everything.´

The Queen obtained a divorce from Angus, at Rome 11 march 1527-28, and shortly after 23 march 1527-28, at which date the news had not arrived, but before 2 april
1528, married Henry Stewart. He was imprisoned for a short time, but on the fall of the power of Angus was received into the favour of the King, and retained it until
his death. He was created Lord Methven 17 july 1528, the King giving in conjunct fee to his mother and to Henry Stewart her husband, brother of Andrew Lord
Avandale, the lands of Methven and Balquhidder, erected into a Barony to be called the Lordship of Methven.

He received the grant of many other lands also. On account of his marriage he assumed (and bore on his seal 1539) for one of his supporters a dragon (the badge of
his wife´s father, King Henry VII of England), and for crest, a queen crowned, standing erect, holding a naked sword reversed with her right, and leaning on a wheel
with her left. He was later made `Maisterof the Ordinaunce and Sherif of Linlithcu by inheritance.` The Queen later, in 1537, obtained a dissolution of her marriage
with him also on the ground that he was within the fourth and fourth degress of consanguinity to the Earl of Angus, her second husband, and wished to marry again
but her son James V prevented this scandal, and she died at Methven 18 oct. 1541.

He received a final grant of he Lordship of Methven 10 oct. 1551 to himself, Janet Stewart Mistress of Sutherland, and their son, and died shortly after. He was, it is
stated, married early in life to `Lady Leslie ´by whom he had a son. His first proved marriage, however, was to the Queen-Dowager. On her death he married the mother
of his four children, Janet Stewart who as his wife, received with him, june 1545, the third part of the lands of Nether-Gorthie. She was daughter of John second Earl
of Atholl, and widow, first of Alexander Master of Sutherland and secondly of Sir Hugh Kennedy of Girvanmains. She survived him, liferenting the Lordship of
Methven and married, fourtly (contract 9 april 1557), Patrick Lord Ruthven. This is her last proved marriage, but it is alleged that she was married, fifthly to James
Gray, son of Gilbert Gray of Foulis.

3. JAMES STEWART of Beith, ancestor of the Lords Doune. Obtained on the 14 july 1528 a grant of the captaincy of the Castle of Doune from King James V, then
inminority whose gentleman of the bedchamber he was. Three days later his brother Henry Stewart, who had married the Queen-Mother, was created Lord Methven.
He had a charter 14 july 1529 of Traquair, sold to him by Queen Margaret.

In 1538 he witnessed a charter as ´Senescallus de Menteith´and on 1 june 1543 had a charter of a grant of 27 april of that year of the lands of Beath by Richard Abbot
of St. Colm, ´insuce de ymonia,´ which proceeded ´pro ingentibus pecuniarum summis sibi persolutis ad reparationem monasterii sui per veteres suos Anglie imimicos
nuper combusti, ´in favour of himself and his wife.

He was killed at Dunblane on whit sunday 1547 by Edmonstone of Duntreath and his brothers, to whose family the office of Stewart of Menteith had formerly
belonged. He married Margaret Lindsay, daughter of John third Lord Lindsay of the Byres, and widow of Richard third Lord Innermeath.

4. ALEXANDER frater germ anus of Andrew Lord Ochiltree 27 june 1541.

5. WILLIAM brother german of Henry, Lord Methven 18 july 1548. He married Isobel Ker.

6. BARBARA married first before 1535 to Sir James Sinclair of Sanday, Governor of Kirkwal : secondly in 1541 to Roderick Macleod of Lewes. As ´Lady Barbara
Stewart`she acguired the Island of Burray in Orkney from Bishop Adam Bothwell, paying yearly´ 62 li. 6 s. 8 d. 24 cunningis and 24 maiss of Stra.

7. AGNES married, as his second wife, to Jon Boswell of Aucinleck.

8. ANNE married to Bartholohew Crawfurd of Carse.

Private User
5/16/2019 at 4:11 PM

screenshot of Dict. of Nat'l Biog: https://drive.google.com/file/d/131jJBOUobzjlhScBdzZpQ3ZXWK_D0h-W/v...

Andrew, 1st Lord of Avondale, father of Henry Stewart, 1st Lord of Methven, is Alexander Stewart's brother, both of them being sons of Walter Stewart of Morphie see: https://www.stewartsociety.org/history-of-the-stewarts.cfm?section=...

Just because someone claims something on a website doesn't mean it is true. One must also look at the credibility of the source(s). The DNB is a standard work of reference on notable figures from British history published since 1885 with academic research behind them. Is Clan McFarlane an academic source, or are they people interested in their ancestors and posting info as they find it? I ask the same of the Wallbring site. No offense to anyone. I am interested in academic, historically factual pursuit and welcome information to help me in this. If I have misread the information I dug up, I appreciate scholarly proof to show me where I went wrong.

5/16/2019 at 5:57 PM

Totally agree. But DNB has “lied to me” before. :)

http://www.wallbring.se/ochiltree.html cites

" The Scots Peerage a history of the noble families of Scotland ".

Which is one of the best resources (Better than DNB). So what we want next is to find the online SP page to examine. It’s in 9 volumes at Archive .Org, Links to the volumes at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scots_Peerage

5/16/2019 at 6:01 PM

MacFarlane cites

[S6] Stirnet Genealogy, Peter Barns-Graham, Stewart06 : The Scots Peerage (Methven), Burkes Extinct Pe e rages 1883 (Stewart-various).

[S6] Stirnet Genealogy, Peter Barns-Graham, Kennedy01: The Scots Peerage (Cassillis), Burkes Peerage 1 9 34 (Ailsa).

Stirnet is a pretty good subscription site, and what’s nice about his pedigree work is he goes (transparently) into multiple sources. So he’s giving the articles in SP he used and also what Burke’s 1883 & 1934 had.

5/16/2019 at 6:05 PM

http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00006151&tree=LEO (The late Leo Van Der Pas) additionally cites

The Complete Peerage, 1936 Doubleday, H.A. & Lord Howard de Walden. vol XII page 273

And gives a volume and Page for SP

The Scots Peerage 1904-1914, nine volumes , Paul, Sir James Balfour.
6:510

5/16/2019 at 6:08 PM

And that’s here. It’s the same as the text Eugene copy / pasted for us.

https://archive.org/details/scotspeeragefoun06paul/page/509

5/16/2019 at 6:12 PM

Index to the volumes for CP is given here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Peerage

I’m not sure I spot 1936 vol XII page 273 as available on line? Sometimes though you can find extracts in rootsweb databases.

5/16/2019 at 6:14 PM

Private User Your drive doesn’t work without permission, but I’ll go into Ancestry and see if I can’t download / upload to Geni for us all the examine. DNB gives a lot of Citations.

5/16/2019 at 6:23 PM
5/16/2019 at 6:34 PM

The second page https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000093482298324&

So the article is clearly referring to an earlier Andrew Stewart (d 1488).

5/16/2019 at 6:36 PM
5/16/2019 at 7:14 PM

And here’s the text of DNB (easier to read)

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Stewart,_Andrew_(d.1488)_(DNB00)_

5/16/2019 at 7:24 PM

DNB has:

[Andrew Stewart d 1488, Lord Chancellor] was succeeded by his nephew, Alexander, son of his brother, Walter Stewart of Morphie, who inherited the lands of Avandale, and, dying before 1500, was succeeded by a younger brother, Andrew, who about that date received the title of Lord Avandale, and in 1543 was created lord Ochiltree (Registrum Magni Sigilli, vol. ii. No. 2516, cf. No. 1632).

——

But this Andrew (Andrew Stewart, 1st Lord Avondale ) d 1513 at Flodden.

DNB is referring to a different Andrew.

5/16/2019 at 7:25 PM

This one was the 1st Lord Ochiltree

Andrew Stewart, 1st Lord Stewart of Ochiltree

Private User
5/16/2019 at 7:36 PM

Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to screenshot to you. The Andrew Stewart mentioned (d. 1488) died without issue, and Alexander Stewart succeeded him. If you read closely, it states: "He was succeeded by his nephew, Alexander, son of his brother Walter Stewart of Morphie, who inherited the lands of Avandale, and, dying before 1500, was succeeded by a younger brother, Andrew, who about that date received the title of Lord Avandale, and in 1543 was created Lord Ochiltree (Registrum Magni Sigilli, vol ii. No.2516, cf. No. 1632). The eldest son of Andrew, third lord Avandale (and first lord Ochiltree), was Andrew Stewart . . . the second son was Henry Stewart, first lord Methven. . . ."

Private User
5/16/2019 at 8:32 PM

Erica Howton, my initial email was regarding Andrew Stewart, 1st Lord of Avondale, whom you or someone identified as being the son of Alexander. I contend they were brothers, as explained in my previous message.

My concern with using the peerage is, as the author states himself: "You might ask what my qualifications are to take on this task – the answer is absolutely none other than an interest in the subject. So clearly the information shown in this database is only as good as the sources I have used, and my ability to duplicate these sources without distorting them. Therefore treat any and all entries in this database without any sources with great caution."

Private User
5/16/2019 at 8:57 PM

I will defer to Scots Peerage.
Thank you for your help!

5/17/2019 at 12:33 AM

Always glad to review. Some of the prose can be tortured. I still hate reading Burke’s.

6/11/2019 at 5:34 AM

Andrew Stewart, 1st Lord Avandale - Parents are Alexander Stewart (1445-d. bef. 1489) and Elizabeth (of Arnot) Arnot 1430-d. aft. 1470) - source: https://www.thepeerage.com/p2504.htm#125037.
Dona Lorine (Floyd) Kimmons

Private User
3/11/2022 at 12:30 PM

25 July 1531: Charter by which James V, King of Scots, confirms that he has given, with certain exceptions, the land and barony of Avandale (Avondale) in the sheriffdom of Lanark, to Andrew Stewart, son and apparent heir of Andrew, Lord Avandale. The barony had previously been resigned by his father, Lord Avandale, who reserved his own liferent and the terce of his wife [ not named ].

Register of the Great Seal of Scotland 1513-1546, charter number 1043 on page 229

https://archive.org/details/registrummagnisi03scot/page/229/mode/1up

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