Giuditta, d'Austria - House of Babenberg

Started by Livio Scremin on Tuesday, August 6, 2019
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8/6/2019 at 7:15 AM

@Jason Scott Wills (C) sorry we just don't understand,

some identify she by toponym, others by the "surname" of the "family" (House)
I had the attention given to them in the three main languages concerned.
-Can you explain why removed the name of the family from the surname?
-And why continue to remove data and put them on the display name? (This technique makes disasters in multilingual, because it is not possible to read the multilingual data of the display name of the other languages)

8/7/2019 at 10:44 AM

okay.. anyway in the meantime, I carefully rearrange surnames and toponyms in the languages concerned.

..& I'm not a lover of the cut-and-paste of wikipedia, but since in the info there are 5 messy ones, I replace them with a good one.

8/7/2019 at 11:25 AM

Jason Scott Wills so there you are, you have removed the data from the right boxes again, to put them in the display name. Can you explain us why you do it?

8/7/2019 at 11:33 AM

1 Babenberg was not her surname, it was the name given to her dynasty by historians. nobody had surnames in this times period.

2 if you set all the name fields in the same set up it is not invisible

8/7/2019 at 11:35 AM

German for his family, Italian for her husband's family, and the international language of the current century is English.
You are adding Dutch .. Russian .. Czech and Greek!?

Mike Stangel ..are he trolling me?

8/7/2019 at 11:41 AM

Ive got better things to do than troll you

8/7/2019 at 12:01 PM

no wait because it's more serious than I thought: so you remove all around the name of the dynasty that historians from all over the world use to identify historical genology, because in the "surname box" you don't think it is correct to put the name of the dynasty?
You or GENI?

Private User
8/7/2019 at 2:14 PM

I have added more than 11.000 profiles, of them 5 might have been wrong, does this count? I do actually know what I am doing, does that count? I now incompetence when I see or notice it.

8/7/2019 at 3:03 PM

Ulf your message above is a violation of our Terms of Use and has been deleted. Ad hominem attacks are not acceptable here.

8/7/2019 at 3:08 PM

Now, to the point: I would first refer everyone to where Medieval profiles are at least mentioned.

I think the most relevant statement is this:

> Normally we use the Suffix field for titles in the Medieval period and earlier, with the last name field generally used for the name indicating geographical origin. During this early period, please follow the convention of the curators who specialize in these areas, since the conventions vary slightly from period to period and culture to culture.

"last name field generally used for the name indicating geographical origin" isn't exactly the same as dynasty but it does suggest flexibility in the last name field for such things.

However it ALSO states "please follow the convention of the curators who specialize in these areas" -- we have a number of curators who specialize in Medieval genealogy and I would encourage Jason to confer with them and update this wiki in accordance with their agreed-upon naming standards.

8/7/2019 at 3:21 PM

Private User thank you for what seemed a support, I managed to read it from the notified email (now it has been obscured because someone can not even remotely accept the slightest thought of being wrong and questioning their own certainties / rules), but please don't expose yourself. (Some defend themselves at any cost and I personally know that retaliation can be unpleasant)

Please I'm here to write just to bring out perhaps misunderstood rules or maybe wrong old directives pre-multilingual.

I have seen that it's absolutely wrong to abuse the display name "box" .. very often it's useful to simplify and/or shorten the writing in the tree... but not to whiten everything:
who enter in a profile it's because want more info, and to be able to read names, surnames (or dynasties), toponyms and titles in other languages of family branches is indispensable for a single large world tree <3

8/7/2019 at 3:34 PM

(clearly I was writing the message while @Mike solved the situation:)

Private User
8/9/2019 at 6:19 AM

Mistakes can be done out of several reasons, some of them being, ignorance, unfamiliarity with the subject, sloppiness, tiredness drugs, sickness or whatever.

If the solution is what ever cause, to lock the profile, delete information, replace connections with N.N. profiles, also locking them, disconnect them from the tree etc, instead of leaving the subject open to others that might have the ability and resources, (the skills needed), then this person acts like a not helping destructive blocking force.

So we are not allowed to critize that kind of behavior, we can raise questions regarding affected profiles, but never question the person behind it. People responsible for making grave mistakes should also accept to be ctitized for it, without that just being called a personal attack, they might need to take this criticism and maybe do something about it, learn from it, grow as a human. That´s the positive side of it.

8/12/2019 at 8:05 AM

I am happy to see that @Ulf has maintained the rights of writing,
now that time is passing, with the utmost attention and reflection I am going to re-re-re-FIX her profile

8/12/2019 at 11:19 AM

[LOL] re-re-re-re-canceled and added still more additional languages [LOL]
Mike Stangel maybe @Ulf had used a colorful way to tell you, but I really believe that some (C) are getting out of your control, because this ignore you too :D

8/12/2019 at 12:58 PM

Livio Scremin medieval genealogy is HARD. Even the names are hard. This isn't a case of "out of control curators", it's a case of people doing their best to record profiles that span 1,000 years and multiple continents, in the face of "one-size fits all" tools and procedures.

8/12/2019 at 2:10 PM

I admire your kindness, but he is not following the guidelines you have listed above.

You should stop the destruction of the Middle Ages, how did @Ulf try to tell you:
-someone (He 1st) to insert handfuls of languages that has nothing to do with its, goes to whiten the interesting data of the families languages.

/!\ He has just also vandalized her father profile (a saint) /!\

8/14/2019 at 10:22 AM

> someone (He 1st) to insert handfuls of languages that has nothing to do with its, goes to whiten the interesting data of the families languages

I'm sorry but I can't understand what you mean here. Who He? Jason? Can you provide an example of what you mean?

> He has just also vandalized her father profile

That's a strong accusation. Exactly what did he do?

8/14/2019 at 11:35 AM

Livio, this is an international site with users from all over the world, adding languages so everyone can understand is not vandalism.

also you say greek had nothing to do with her? As a member of the educated nobility living in close proximity to the Greek speaking Byzantine Empire she probably spoke at least some Greek!

8/14/2019 at 3:16 PM

Jason Scott Wills !? she was born in austria and came to do the marquise in piedmont (north west italy). So for me not to be able to read the mother tongue German toponym that sounds completely different from all other languages.. does not allow me and all other not German to identify she well between the German lines (which almost no one has Englishened). But can only read the name translated into Czech, Dutch, Bulgarian, etc. etc. makes me think to a distracted person who creates damage (vandal without even realizing it maybe thinking about helping Czech users...).

I really don't think you made any consideration that she did Bulgarian or Russian online courses, only I simply believe you have copied all the names you found in wikipedia without selecting the relevant and primary info. We cannot provide all the information of all languages on all profiles. We need to know how to make a right reasoned selection.
Mike Stangel just look at the changes in Saint Leopold III, Margrave of Austria

since I realized I was a Saint of the Roman Church with an annual recurrence on November 15th, I had internationalized and Italianized it. But now I only read "Leopoldo III. mangravio d'Austria" I do not see the English international name, nor the German original, nor that it is a saint still celebrated. His profile was perfect, but now out of spite, or indifference, or lightness, I consider him vandalized.

8/14/2019 at 3:36 PM

Sure if you want saint back ill put it back.i removed it because the standard is to use the highest title they held.

8/14/2019 at 3:54 PM

'' ((For me, explaining the obvious in a foreign language is frustrating, and if I do it at the cost of being ridiculous, it's because I care: don't be surprised by all my "spaghetti-eater" writing mistakes to answer quickly. I'm sure that with a little effort, those who want to understand ... will understand :)) ''

8/14/2019 at 6:31 PM

Mike Stangel actually from the change column you can only note that I worked a lot to optimize Leopold, but the only way to show you the difference between filling in the correct fields and not the "dispaly name" would be that at your command I put it back as I had done and you can judge the difference.

8/14/2019 at 7:01 PM

sometimes I forget how many hours I gave! Look you can get a taste of what I mean by his father and grandfather too. (and if now @Jason goes to ruin these too?)

*Ernst von Babenberg {DE-origin [ENG-international (ITA-because son of Italian Venetian mother)
**Leopold II of Babenberg, Margrave of Austria (DE-ENG)
***just that Saint Leopold III, Margrave of Austria was more difficult and complicated because I had to make it feel like it was called "saint" and that it was actually sanctified.

You can pass the mouse over the names and see already in the previews how their identifications sound in the family languages, (& and entering the profile)

also all the JPGs I tagged them selectively to look better in the preview, in the profile, and in the miniature of the tree (especially leopoldo III) but that's another story :D

8/14/2019 at 7:07 PM

and think that everything is the result of following the guidelines that you yourself have listed, nothing strange or anomalous like deleting everything and writing in the dispay name. Ok all said ^^'

8/15/2019 at 8:08 AM

Trolling 100% now @J write in feminine "Santa Leopoldo III. mangravio d'Austria" and locked.
Do not say that he is doing his best, because it was enough to look like I did, or wikipedia.
@Mike Regain control of your free curators.

Private User
8/15/2019 at 8:33 AM

Have been wishing for some kind of curator guidelines, and if they make up their owns, it could and should be revoked, without targeting the persons that object against what could be called, I do as I please because I'm a curator mentality.

I have been both blocked and warned because of my objections against certain individual curators, and also mocked and ridiculed by their supporters, and Mike Stangel isn't on my side in this, and what's my side?

I want profiles to be correct, presented and displayed according to the sources avaible and re-adjusted by recognized experts in their respectively professional field, and that doubts are explained, not created out of free fantasy, such as, ( good example)
we actually don't know, there could have been 2 different persons named Alitava Maxzzyusion living in the same area at the same time, and if we don't know, we can't use that line at all.. invented stories, in order just to rectify cutting off lines.

I suggest, as a number one good guideline, stick to what you're good at, hand over the rest to others. That will surely reduce the number of errors and problems a great lot.

8/15/2019 at 10:40 AM

The profile in question was changed to match the sources "Judith" her name, in a period where surnames didn't exist, and in the Display name "Judith of Babenberg" because she was born in Babenberg castle and is know to history as that, yet you are called me an idiot, smearing me and taking the side of Livio. So please don't tell me you want profiles correct according to sources, you just want to talk smack about curators.

8/15/2019 at 12:40 PM

@J but what do you have against the Babenbergs!?
why can't you leave the dynastic name used by all the historians and at this point even the Catholic faithful of the world, in the "surname box" as the GENI line guide also foresees? (the Italian solution name is "
-san .......................[title]
-Leopold III ...........[name]
-di Babemberg, ...[surname]
-mangravio d'Austria ..[sufix] "
but this you already know this because it was already written and you see it also on wiki)

I have no idea who named you that* way, for example I signed an agreement with "google genealogists" that I never offend even when others do, so I just ask you:
But what are you doing among the Italian-Austrian lines, are you not a little too far from home? Did you confuse Austria whit Australia?
Did I see that you had to take over after "an unpleasant loss", after one year you did not find any local(C) to which to pass the management?

8/15/2019 at 1:17 PM

Livio Scremin your charge that I should "control my curators" like some dog on a leash is offensive. Knock it off. The curators are our experts for particular areas of the historical tree. If you want to step up and do better, the curator application is here:

Private User you make a straw-man argument. Are you seriously implying that Jason and others do NOT "want profiles to be correct, presented and displayed according to the sources available and re-adjusted by recognized experts in their respectively professional field" ?

You both need to ease up. Jason does a lot of good work and has everyone's best interests in mind.

Showing 1-30 of 66 posts

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