Julian Osborn - YOU HAVE THE WRONG THOMAS OSBORNE

The Thomas Osborne son of Richard Osborne II b. 1510 and Jane Broughton b. 1510-1570 happens to be my 10th great grand father and we have the OLD family bible. Besides he is documented in "The Virginia Magazine", "The Genealogist", "Genealogical Memoirs of the Extinct Family of Chester of Chicheley, Their Ancestors and Descendants, Volume 1" by Robert Edmond Chester Waters. There are 2 other sources as well.

Using capital letters is so that that particular issue stands out. So you know that it is important. I have 2 books at my house that are sources for the Duke of Leeds Thomas Osborne and that have his genealogy in the books. I have written to one of his living direct ancestors and awaiting a letter from England. Further more, you might or might not find it interesting that the Queen also descends from two ancestors from his line. The purpose to tell you is because of the error. Which will give you a chance to correct it. When a researcher has wrong information, they are sent down a path which will waste their precious time. This is to help you, nothing more. IF you don't want the help, so be it, but when you have an error and leave it like that, then it might send other people down the wrong path as well. A Rev. Dr. Mansfield was extremely mad when someone else sent researchers down a wrong path and never bothered to fix the error of a different Osborn/e. Which wasted 2 years of her life and research. Yes I am sure that my research is correct. I have the sources to prove it. I also have well over 40 years of research behind me. And we have 3 professional genealogist on our family line.

Kay Osborn, the reason you might be getting bad responses from people is your unnecessary use of all capital letters.

From wikipedia - In typography, all caps (short for "all capitals") refers to text or a font in which all letters are capital letters, for example: Text in All Caps. ... Short strings of words in capital letters appear bolder and "louder" than mixed case, and this is sometimes referred to as "screaming" or "shouting"

It would be nicer if you could add sources and explanations of why you think a line is not correct rather than shouting at everyone that it is wrong. No one likes to be shouted at.

Leanne- The use of capitals is to make the issue stand out. Nothing more, and nothing less. I was on another site and the information was absolutely upside down! When the person left the information she did not check her sources. Leaving miss-information only causes problems for future researchers. I know a minister, Rev. Dr. Marietta Mansfield that was sent on a wild goose chase for 3 years because of "miss-information" This is time she could have used on research, and it was waisted on a Wild Goose Chase! Also in 1930 a Lawyer by the name of Will Daniels hired a professional researcher to find the parents of Ephraim Osborne. He was given wrong information. But at the time will did not know it was wrong. He passed it to the descendants of John Osborne b. 1631. By the time he found out that the information was wrong, it was spread like wild fire! For the past 90 years the information is still being spread! A few people knew about it, but not everybody. The damage was done! My believe is this. If the key point is in capitals, it will stand out. It will catch the person's eye right away. It is just like printing a newspaper. Headlines are bigger, bolder and even on a box of Jell-o they use capital letters to get your attention!

Just creating a discussion raises the issue. Shouting and screaming at people just gets them offside and makes them unwilling to help investigate and fix the issue that you are trying to get fixed.

Kay Osborn

I fixed Thomas Osborne yesterday. I missed it because this discussion is not from his profile .

Question. What is the evidence supporting this yeoman as brother of Sir Edward Osborne, MP, Lord Mayor of London & Julian? The reference I found said "nothing further known of Thomas & Julian."

Full citation appreciated along with online link. Obviously he's a point of confusion already.

Also i notice step daughters and Mellowes mentioned in his will. Do you know how they fit in?

Leanne M- I am not screaming when I use capitals- it is my way - just like a newspaper would do- to use a larger print- to capture the attention of the issue at hand!

Erica- Thank you for fixing Thomas. You are the best! I descend through Thomas Osborne and his wife Wilmeth Mellows/Mellis. He is the brother of Edward Osborne
MP, Lord mayor of London who married Ann Hewett- Their son was Sir Hewett Osborne that married Joyce Frescheville and they had a son Sir Edward Osborne, MP, Baronet of Kiveton that married Ann Walmesley and one other woman, Their son was Thomas Osborne, 1st Duke of Leeds.
Sources: this one is on line: "Genealogical Memoirs of the Etinct Family of Chester of Chicheley" Their Ancestors and Descendants, Volume 1. By Robert Edmond Chester Waters. Osborne history begins on page 225-237. Pedigree chart is on page 237
(there is one scriber error on page 237 which stated that Richard Broughton is the father of Jane Broughton that married Richard Osborne II b. 1510. On page 225 VI. PP.2 line 4 it states that John Broughton is the father. The scriber must have had her husband's name on his mind when he wrote the wrong name. The Virginia magazine, state it is John as the father and so stated also in "The Genealogical Magazine".
Source: The Genealogical Magazine
Source: The Virginia Magazine

Richard Osborne I & Elizabeth Flydene
Richard Osborne II & Jane Broughton 1510-1570
_______|__________________________________
| | |
Sir Edward Osborne Julien Sir Thomas Osborne
MP Lord Mayor of London Wilmeth Mellows/Mellis
Ann Hewett |
| Jeremiah (Jeremy) Osborne
Sir Hewett Osborne Joan Wybourne
Joyce Frescheville |
| Thomas Osborne b. 1594/5
Sir Edward Osborn MP Mary Goatley
| __________________________________|_____________________
| | | | | | | | | |
| Thomas Jeremiah Richard John Stephen Joseph Rebecca Increase Ben
1st Baronet of Kiveton
|
2 wives
Ann Walmesley
|
Thomas Osborne
1st Duke of Leeds

I hope this chart doesn't slide over when I send it- if so it will be hard to read.

Thomas Osborne b. 1594 and his wife with 5 boys went to America on the ship the Hopewell (I think) might need to look it up. Year about 1637. Their son Richard died at age 6 months old and is buried in Ashford, Kent England died 1-20-1628. These are the immigrants that came to America. In New Haven, Conn. then migrated to Long Island, New York and were there as tanners for 6 generations. There is a chest that Thomas Osborne family member donated to a museum in New York that he brought from England.

I have not researched Julian- other than he is listed in the above sources that I sited

This geni page does not support charts:

No worries about charts, an online URL is most helpful so we can examine in context.

Did you read the will of Thomas Osborne in his profile "about?" He identified himself as a yeoman and seemed to have substantial property including "manor at Ashfoord"

And another citation points out Sir Edmunds parents are conjectured but not proven.

So im wondering if theres more substative evidence linking the two families.

Hi Erica,
I have 3 sources. I thought that should be good enough. I did run into a 4th source about 3 month ago. I have the book at home of "Genealogical Memoirs of the Extinct Family of Chester of Chicheley, Their Ancestors and Descendants, Volume 1 by Robert Edmond Chester Waters. They also have the Peton family which is also something you should consider reading. I do have a copy of the Walmesley Pedigree chart. Ann Walmesley is the mother of Thomas Osborne 1st Duke of Leeds.

I did read the will of Thomas Osborne. And They spell Ashford funny! Just the old English way such as sister=syster, and they use the f = s. I posted an article on Osborn/e face book page just to see who could read it. One guy had a hard enough time with English let alone the Kings English of yester-year! I also found another will along the line.

What Thomas did prior and what he did in the United States is two different things. He became a tanner and his family had the tanning business for 6 generations.

Quoting you: "And another citation points out Sir Edmunds parents are conjecture but not proven."

Do you mean Sir Edward instead of Sir Edmund?

IF you mean Sir Edward, then which one of the Sir Edwards? IF you use the wife's name along with his I will know who you mean.

"IF" You are talking about Sir Edward Osborne Mp Lord Mayor of London that married Ann Hewett- then- it is well documented that his parents are Richard Osborne b. 1510 and Jane Broughton b. 1510-1570. Her father is John Broughton also well documented. However, Jane Broughton's mother was never mentioned in any of the Books. I did find a book that said that John was married to Lady Ann Sapcote. But nothing in writing that Ann was the mother of Jane. I also found an article that Queen Victoria put a cabash on anyone obtaining a copy of a will or information on the Royals. I contacted the clerk in England to try to find Jane's will along with her father's will, and the will of her two brothers Lancelyn Broughton, and Edward Broughton. Both never married and left their estates to their sister Jane Broughton Osborne 1510-1570.

"IF" you mean Sir Edward Osborne Mp 1st Baronet of Kiveton married to Ann Walmesley he is also well documented. You can also find him on Wikipedia.com , and in Genealogical Memoirs of the Extinct Family of Chester of Chicheley, Their Ancestors and Descendants, Volume 1, by Robert Edmond Chester Waters.

You have heard the expression- THE Proof is in the Pudding! Well, the proof is in the DNA! I belong to an Osborn/e group, which is Osborn/es all around the world. England, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, S.W. Africa, and all over the United States. There is a large group that descend from Thomas Osborne b. 1594/5 and Mary Goatley. Two from their son Thomas, 3 from Jeremiah b. 1624, about 40-50 from John Osborn b. 1631 and Mariam Rebecca Hand. About 8 from their son Stephen b. 1634, Non yet from Joseph b. 1636, but I am in communication with 3 of them privately, Rebecca b. 1642 no contact, Increase Osborne b. 1643 I don't know anything other than date of birth. Benjamin Osborne I have a chart of his line, but no communication as of yet.

When I joined the group it was more a social club. I starting asking questions about their families. It became more of a genealogy thing every since.

I was able to ask one girl that lives in S.W. Africa about her husband's family. The line goes back to Sir Peter Osborne who married Lady Eme Essex and through the son

John. So that was where they tied into the family of those who came to America...Thomas Osborne b. 1594/5 and Mary Goatley.

Sir Peter Osborne of Tyld(en) Hall and Lady Eme Essex
Sir John RIchard Osborne and Lady Wilhelmina
Richard Osborne I and Elizabeth Flydene
Richard Osborne II and Jane Broughton 1510-1570
Sir Thomas Osborne and Wilmeth Mellows/Mellis
Jeremiah (Jeremy) Osborne and Joan Wybourne
Thomas Osborne b. 1594/5 and Mary Goatley
Children: Thomas, Jeremiah, Richard 1627-1628, John, Stephen, Joseph, Rebecca, Increase, Benjamin

You have a big problem with these 2:

Sir Peter Osborne of Tyld(en) Hall and Lady Eme Essex

Thats an Essex line, not a Kent line. Leads to the Leeds baronet.

Sir John RIchard Osborne and Lady Wilhelmina

Did not exist as far as I can tell.

Your predigree begins with

Richard Osborne I and Elizabeth Flydene

(And no one has identified the parents of Richard Osborne I and Elizabeth Flydene, and his son Richard who married Jane is a bit conjectural as father of Sir Edward)

Citation

From The Genealogist page 2 GoogleBooks

Richard Osborne, said 3 to have been father, by Elizabeth, daughter of (—) Fyldane, of Richard Osborne, of Ashford, co. Kent, who is said7 to have married Jane, daughter of John Broughton, of Broughton [in Bridekirk, near Penrith] co. Westmorland, Esq., sister and heir to Edward and Lancelyn Broughton. and to have been father by her of three children, viz., Edward, Thomas and Julian, of which last two nothing more is known.

Sir Edward Osborne, Lord Mayor of London, son of Richard Osborne, of Ashford, co. Kent, "a lad of gentle birth but obscure parentage,"i was apprenticed, probablv about 1547, to William Hewett, Citizen and Clothworker of London (afterwards a Knight and Lord Mayor ....

https://books.google.com/books?id=9iY9AQAAIAAJ&lpg=PA2&ots=...

Geni profile: Sir Richard Osborne, I, of Ashford

Discussion about "John Richard"

https://www.geni.com/discussions/206105?msg=1354608

The poster is a medievalist. Her point:

"Here's what I'm seeing:

There were Osbornes all over England. Some of them were related to each other.

Peter Osborne had sons Richard and John. He lived in Essex. Neither of them was the Osborne who lived in Kent.

The earliest that the pedigree for Edward Osborne, the Mayor of London, can be taken back is to Richard Osborne and Elizabeth Fyldene. That his antecedents, previous to that link, are "obscure" is one of the giveaways here. If the genealogists had been able to take that line back further, they would have. They couldn't. It's a dead end."

Julian/Julyan Osborne is listed in the VISITATIONS OF LONDON, Greater London.

The last brother that all say no other information is given is your line, Erica!

Erica, when the article was written, the author stated, "Nothing more is known about Julian and Sir Thomas Osborne 1541/2 that married Wilmeth Mellows/ Mellis.

The article was written from the "view" of the writer.

However, You and I come from Sir Thomas Osborne 1541/2 and Wilmeth. He is the father of Jeremy (Hieremy) Jeremiah Osborne of Ashford, Kent England that married Joan Wybourne and they are the parents of Thomas Osborne b. 1594/5 that married Mary Goatley.

Julian Osborne is listed in the Visitations of London and was married. There is Nothing else listed about Julian that I have researched, at that point.