R' Benjamin Braude, A.B.D. Grodno - Slawa Brodowicz (1800?-1847)

Lee David Jaffe I doubt Braude and Brodowicz are one and the same.
Have a look at this profile Icko Brodowicz and what's written in the overview, it may help you.

Perhaps @Michael Braverman and @Mel Werbach could kindly opine

Dimitri,

Lee and I are currently working together to attempt to solve this mystery.

I would be pleasantly surprised if the Rachel Mayer connection proves accurate.

Mel Werbach

Thanks a lot Mel!! 👍

R' Benjamin Braude, A.B.D. Grodno had only two wives. Rachel Mayer has to be merged with one other one, or disconnected. What's the source for her name?

Samuel

1) I don't think anyone is suggesting that Braude and Brodowicz could be the same.

2) The note at the link provided comes from Mel Werbach, the 4th cousin I mentioned.

3) Mel's note brings up some interesting issues which I don't think we'll resolve without additional evidence. These essentially center around JRI-Poland records which refer to Slawa's maiden name.

a) birth of daughter Basia ... "Slawa Brodowicz"
b) birth of son Lejzer ... "Hanna Ickowicz"
c) marriage of son Jochyel ... "Slawa Brejd"

Mel addresses the entry Hanna as a translation error. I think it may refer to the father's mother, whose name we believe is Chana.

Note: The entry for Ick Brodowicz linked here does NOT include Slawa as one of his children.

4) This Benjamin Braude link (here) does include Slawa as a child. And a wife, Rachel, daughter of Nathan William Mayer (thus Rachel Mayer).

I don't know where the link to Rachel Mayer comes from. It was introduced to me through Ancestry "Potential Mother" prompt. There are at least 10 trees in Ancestry and Geni and elsewhere that record Benjamin Broude / Rachel Mayer as Slawa's parents. The Geni entry above is the only place I've seen any reference to documentation – Mishpahat Broda – but haven't seen the entry that would confirm or dismiss either version.

I've gone ahead and merged the duplicates. I have left some tree conflicts as there are some questions about parentage.

Kevin

Kevin,

I'm not sure those were duplicates. I think it's best to unmerge and split Rachel Mayer with daughter Slawa from Braude tree, or leave them there for the moment until this issue is ironed out. Personally I think, if Slawa was a Brodowicz, and all are in agreement that Braude and Brodowicz aren't one and the same, the records give a different father, I can't see any reason to keep her on the Braude tree, if anything, she should be moved for the time being at least as a daughter of Icko. Rachel Mayer can also be (unmerged and) disconnected perhaps, we're yet to see any evidence of her belonging where she is.

Private User,

I've undone some merges and am going to leave it as it is currently displayed.

Kevin

As of 7-29-20, I've discovered Benjamin Broide is no longer linked to Slawa Brodowicz (father/daughter). Slawa is now shown to be the daughter of Benjamin's brother Sender.

Maybe this discussion should be attached to Slawa's record.

Lee David Jaffe,

I can't move her back as there someone had mistakenly merged Benjamin with his brother Sender.

I undid that merge and left her attached to Sender.

If you can tell me her father's name from the records, then I will be able to place her with the correct father.

Kevin

According to pre-merger connections, Rachel Mayer was Sender's wife, not Benjamin 's: https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=76277117580

I am sure that 3-4 days ago, R' Benjamin Braude, A.B.D. Grodno was listed as the father of Slawa Ludwinowska and the husband of Rachel Broide/ Margoliot. I would not have begun this discussion under Benjamin otherwise. As said, I'm new to Geni and I don't now who Kevin, Samuel or Dimitri are or why they have taken a role, but someone has made changes that don't make sense. I'm not interested in engaging in this discussion any further if this is the way this goes.

Lee David Jaffe,

We need to wait for Samuel's response when he gets back home.

Kevin

I'll continue here although some of this discussion - https://www.geni.com/discussions/216475 is also of relevance.

(Lee David Jaffe it doesn't really matter under whose profile a discussion started as long as the relevant profiles are tagged to the discussion. This is how you tag - https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229706447-How-do-I-tag-a-pr.... Alternatively you can just paste the profile URL to tag).

Some people you may not know or may not have heard of have taken a role in this discussion because you've opened a public discussion on a public website. If you want to keep it private you can opt for private messaging. But actually, we're here to help and are glad to share any insights we may have. That's Geni, it's collaborative so although mistakes and errors occur, ultimately we'll try to get the best, most accurate tree possible. (Much like Wikipedia).

As a first, I wouldn't attach much value to the scores of online trees, whichever website they may be on in the face of actual records or record indexes. Online trees are often just copied one from another and that happens here on Geni too, we're going to have to deal with the primary sources first. The fact that Benjamin Braude had a daughter Slawa on Geni is (almost) meaningless if there's no source for it. Similiarly the fact that Ick Brodowicz didn't have a daughter Slawa on Geni is also meaningless because the tree is in the process of being built and is by no means exhaustive.

I trust that you and Mel Werbach are researching this properly and have put in a lot more effort and time than I have or plan on doing. It does seem however that the issue of Slawa has led us into another mess which I've begun trying to fix. She had been attached to R' Benjamin Braude, A.B.D. Grodno and he had been merged into Reb Sender/Alexander Ephraim Leb Broide/ Margoliot. I believe that merge was done based on https://zohariststories.blogspot.com/2019/09/sheklov-hasidim.html which I'm certain is a load of nonsense. When that was unmerged she ended up (together with some other siblings) as a daughter of Reb Sender/Alexander Ephraim Leb Broide/ Margoliot. He was still given as a brother of R' Benjamin Braude, A.B.D. Grodno but I've since detached him from his parents and fixed (some of?) the children.
There's no source for Rachel Broide/ Margoliot being the wife of R' Benjamin Braude, A.B.D. Grodno although she may have been the wife of Reb Sender/Alexander Ephraim Leb Broide/ Margoliot and indeed Slawa's mother. The question is what happened first, the chicken or the egg, was there a source for Slawa's mother being called Rachel Mayer and this somehow ended up being attached as a wife of R' Benjamin Braude, A.B.D. Grodno, (probably due to the above-linked 'theory'), or was there a source for Slawa as the daughter of R' Benjamin Braude, A.B.D. Grodno, or neither...

I've also moved Slawa Ludwinowska as a daughter of Icko Brodowicz, simply because that seems the most sensible version at the moment; however, nothing's final and things can always be changed...

Just another point. Lejzor Rubin Ludwinowski seems wrong, for two reasons. 1) He has a brother Lejzor Rubin Ludwinowski which wouldn't have happened under Ashkenazic Jewish custom. 2) His parents are only 11 years older than him! Was he the one with a different mother's name in JRI but that was assumed to be a transcript's error? Was Lejzor Rubin born in 1811 or 1832?