Col. William Floyd - No-Win Scenario

Started by Private User on Monday, September 21, 2020
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Once again we have people grabbing and snatching at the Accomack County Floyds because *they are documented and the other Floyds are not*.

This time around, someone tried to invoke Y-DNA studies without really understanding what they were seeing. The alleged "blue cian" group on FTDna turns out to be "Generic R1b", very loosely related if at all. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Floyd/default.aspx?section=yco...

*None* of the named test kits includes any reference whatsoever to Accomack or Northampton County.

It has long been *believed* that Col. William Floyd was related to the Accomack County Floyds - but belief is not the same thing as fact.

We do know that Col. William Floyd named a son "Nathaniel" - a name that *never* occurs among the Eastern Shore Floyds, and may indicate a connection with Nathaniel Floyd of Jamestown.

And I will thank everyone to remember that the Eastern Shore is separated from the mainland by the wide and treacherous waters of the Chesapeake Bay!

Appears a new Geni user has made a merge on 3 September...
Would it be possible to LOCK some fields and make merges go by request?
It is a given that some profiles are going to be difficult to work on/through because of the nature of 17th and 18th century America and these are NOT just Europeans involved in our genetic make up and family lines.

This is in the hopper as well: https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000010155557246?to=600000013...

I love my diverse ancestry. Geni is not amenable to some lines but I do believe that the heart is generally in "the right place."

Col. William Floyd MP
Gender: Male
Birth: 1714
Province of Virginia
Death: after 1800
Probably Jefferson County, Kentucky, United States
Immediate Family:
Son of John Floyd; John Floyd; <private> Floyd (Bnu) and Michal Harris
Husband of Abadiah Floyd
Father of Sarah Powell; Isham Floyd; Elizabeth Tuley; James John Floyd; Maj. Robert Clark Floyd and 17 others
Brother of John Floyd and James Floyd

Consistency Check:daughter Floyd contains incorrect use of uppercase/lowercase in her name.[fix case]Isham FLOYD contains incorrect use of uppercase/lowercase in his name.[fix case] Floyd (Bnu) was born before c.1850 and is set as private.[make public]

A curator is requested, please and thank you.

I am a believer in win-win Private User. I see you are a manager as well as Private for some in this line and I am thankful for such attention to accuracy and thank you for bringing attention.. I follow the profile but had no idea of the issues that have crept in.
This is an uncle relationship to me. DNA proven gratis of a group of cousins and my own dear uncle who has since passed away.
DNA is important. I am reminded that paper and DNA make for a proven tree but I will always side on the side of DNA when there is n paper. Today I think the problem is just a matter of needing locked fields while new Geni users learn the ropes :)

Can’t lock fields when genealogy is still being worked out.

Edward (John) Floyd, Ill Who married Mechell “Mitha” Parker - we don’t have known sons for him, only a daughter.

I’m not fixing all those meaningless inconsistencies. Either fix yourself, wait for manager, or mark ignore.

These Floyd’s formerly attached to Edward (John) Floyd, Ill are floating:

James Floyd Brother to John Floyd

Please see notes in profile for Colonel William Floyd:

“ We should note that there is a marriage between Mrs. Burgomy and an Edward Floyd in Henrico County, a marriage that gave rise to Ann Floyd born abt 1662, documented as the wife of Joseph Tanner (married 1682), shown in these notes. Edward b 1641 or so and his wife are not the parents of our William. The years do not fit.”

I am patient... will "wait" lol Erica Howton

I’m very impatient when I have 80 requests on an average Geni day.

I know... thank you Erica Howton

Whoever pushed Col. William Floyd's birth year up to 1714 (from a previous c. 1721) didn't realize that made it *less* likely that he was a son of John (son of Charles son of John) of the Eastern Shore. That particular John Floyd was born in or very close to the year 1698 (not more than a year's variance either way, based on 1) age of parents and 2) record of administering an estate in 1720).

For ever and ever and ever people have been ASS-uming Col. William Floyd *must* belong to this particular Floyd family, based on nothing whatsoever except the same last name (problem is, of course, it's a *very* common Welsh-derived surname). It's just "convenient" to tie him up to the loose end - and it was more convenient when he was assumed to be born c. 1721. Now, not so much.

Worked through the whole list of Floyds at FTDna and didn't come up with a single good match to any known Eastern Shore Floyd. The only even *possible* match (William son of Hew Floyd, b. 1715) has no paper trail for descendants. (The FTDna record has William Floyd abt. 1720, VA; d. 1789, VA, so he's not a particularly good match for Col. William Floyd (d. after 1800, KY?) either.)

For what it's worth, the Miles Files penciled in Col. William Floyd as a son of John (b. c. 1674) son of John the founder, prior to marriage with Mary Berry (c. 1725). But once again no documentary evidence.

Re: “ We should note that there is a marriage between Mrs. Burgomy and an Edward Floyd in Henrico County, a marriage that gave rise to Ann Floyd born abt 1662, documented as the wife of Joseph Tanner (married 1682), shown in these notes. Edward b 1641 or so and his wife are not the parents of our William. The years do not fit.”

It looks as though somebody got two Edward Floyds mixed up - or possibly an Edward and a John. Edward Floyd II *did not* marry Mechell Harris, *did* marry an otherwise unidentified woman (who later married a James Forrest), and *did* have two children, Edward/John who *did* marry Mechell Harris and Ann who married Joseph Tanner c. 1682. Quite a nasty tangle. (And that's not even going into what we had to go through to sort out Ms. Harris - oy vey!)

I am "following" this. Curious as to how it will sort. Floyds are so mixed up and I wish there was a better way to sort. It will take a lot more of them to do the DNA and a lot more digging through records if they exist. The problem I see on looking at the Floyd family study is that we depend that those tested give accurate ancestors.

Thanks to those looking. There are a lot of us out there that are interested and trying to piece together what we can.

Made a mistake of my own above. John son of John Floyd married Ann Wilkins c. 1725, not Mary Berry (his mother). http://espl-genealogy.org/MilesFiles/site/p540.htm#i53983

Col. William Floyd is penciled in as a possible son by (undocumented) first?) marriage(?), but there are no records. No marriage record, no birth record, no nothing.

One thing that trips people up again and again and again is that there were TWO Hog Islands. One was actually more of a peninsula (isolated at high tide) near Jamestown. The other was an Atlantic barrier island off the Eastern shore.

The Eastern Shore Floyds are associated with the Atlantic barrier island, *not* the peninsula.

*THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER CONNECTING JOHN FLOYD OF "NORTHAMPTON" TO TRADER JOHN FLOYD.

There were Floyds - and Hunts - on BOTH sides of the Chesapeake Bay. It is unknown whether they were related.

"About" for John Floyd, of Northampton County has been thoroughly messed over by the person(s) who INSIST that he MUST have been the son of Trader John Floyd - and MUST have been part-Native.

BAD INFO STARTS RIGHT AT THE TOP:
"Parentage: ydna - R1b - categorically native"

R1b *IS NOT* a Native American Y-DNA haplogroup. Never has been. It's widespread all across Western Europe and especially in the "Celtic fringe" of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. It also has many many many subclades, most of which haven't been related since well before the Year One.

"same ydna as Nathaniel Floyd and William Floyd."

No. There is no documentation. There is no paper trail. FamilytreeDNA has *A* Nathaniel Floyd (1779 South Carolina, d. East TN) who is *certainly not* the same person as Nathaniel Floyd of Jamestown (and no paper trail to indicate whether he is a descendant). There are *three* William Floyds, *NONE* of whom match the currently given stats for Col. William Floyd - and two of whom are in the "catchall" category for Generic R1b (probably *not* related within genealogical time); the third *isn't even R1b*, he's G. There is only *one* John Floyd (b. 1799) and he's E.

"See Avatar for Charles going to Ga, and William line going to WV for the 1st Native Man To Serve In Congress, the 25th Gov of WV John Floyd. "

Lots of family myths in the Governor's family, most of which die very, very hard if at all.

"Probable father: John Floyd, Licensed Trader of Ft. Henry Trader Status - Hog Island of IOW Co was held by natives who raised hogs there; then called Machapunga Island"

No. Machapunga Island is in North Carolina, part of the CAROLINA (not Virginia) barrier islands off Cape Hatteras. The Hog "Island" referred to here is a peninsula on the south side of the James River, and most of it is actually in Surry County. It is currently a wildlife refuge.

"Family proven by primary source, named as Nathaniel, his brother and how they are related to this John; same group as the first Trader who held an official trade status with British America: Trader John Floid whose house was the only allowed trade post except for at Ft Henry which was 30 mile away from the Nottoway natives (source reads Nattowais) who were in trade, on record."

There is no primary source. Family trees are not primary sources - and are often not reliable at all.

"Land Grantee Associate: Thomas Hunt of Skiffes' Creek, which is 10 miles south of Jamestown and across the James River from IOW Hog Island, witnessed this John Floyd's will.

WRONG THOMAS HUNT!!! It was THIS one: http://espl-genealogy.org/MilesFiles/site/p614.htm#i61349 Captain Thomas Hunt

There were Hunts as well as Floyds on *BOTH* sides of the Chesapeake Bay, and it is fatally easy to get them mixed up.

"John Floyd made a will on 2 April 1687 at Northampton Co, VA. To my son John my 100 A. plantation whereon I now live, a set of cooper's tools and carpenter's tools. To my sons Charles, Berry, and Mathew all my 1/4 part of Hogg Island to be eq. div. To my dau. Sarah one feather bed. To my dau. Esther one feather bed, but if she dies under 16 then to the rest of her brothers and sister. To my loving wife Mary two feather beds. My sons to be at age at 18 if their mother remarries, else 20, and daus. at 16. To my son John the 1/2 of Prouts Island. To my wife for life the use of 1/3 of my plantation. Wife Mary and my son John extrs. Witt: William Jarvis, William 'TWS' Shepheard, Thomas Hunt."

The "Hogg Island" mentioned is the barrier island, not the peninsula, and the witnesses can all be identified as first or second generation Eastern Shore settlers.

Oh, and far from the "natives" "raising hogs" on Hog Island (Surry County), the settlers had much ado to keep the "natives" from *raiding* their hogs.

Pigs *are not* native to North America.

SOMEONE needs to study up on R1 Haplogroup

Haplogroup R1
Haplogroup R1 (Y-DNA) (specifically R1b) is the second most predominant Y haplotype found among indigenous Amerindians after Q (Y-DNA).[48] The distribution of R1 is believed by some to be associated with the re-settlement of Eurasia following the last glacial maximum.

Correct pigs are not native to America, however they have been in America since the 1500's so yes Natives were able to raise hogs.

Feral swine are not native to the Americas. They were first brought to the United States in the 1500s by early explorers and settlers as a source of food. Free-range livestock management practices and escapes from enclosures led to the first establishment of feral swine populations within the United States.

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/resources/pests-diseases/feral-swi....

Linda, Linda, Linda - R1 is *NOT* indigenous Native Y-DNA: it is an *absolute* indicator of "White-eyes in the woodshed". It is found so commonly *because* there *has* been so much "White-eyes in the woodshed". (You should know better than to trust Wikipedia - it is a very faddy, very general source and subject to perpetual revision by whoever has the latest hot theory.)

As for the pigs on Hog "Island": the Jamestown settlers moved *their* pigs there *to keep the Natives from stealing them*. This is explicit in the primary accounts of the time. If the Natives were keeping pigs there, the Jamestown settlers would have had to find someplace else, duh!

General note: there *are* hucksters out there who prey upon gullible people desperate to "prove" their "Native heritage" based on their "family lore". Some of them will actually take a self-identification at face value and issue a certificate "authenticating" a non-Native test result as "Native", even down to specifying the tribe (which is something no DNA test can identify with certainty, as any *reputable* DNA researcher will admit).

Caveat emptor.

Again, YOU need to study up on R1

A majority of North American Native Americans carry the R1 haplogroup.
https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/comment?id=10.1371/a...

NatAmerican
34
US, AK
5
Q
R1b
https://www.newgeography.com/content/005051-race-ancestry-and-genet...

R1b among Mesoamerican natives and finds it similar to that of hg.
http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com/2014/07/y-chromosome-haplogro...

R1b, the sister clade of haplogroup Q
https://bmcbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12915-018-0622-4

Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans,
https://familypedia.wikia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)

The presence of the haplogroup R1b in North America, especially in Native Americans have brought up many questions about the origins of this haplogroup.
https://haplomaps.com/haplogroup-r/

"A majority of North American Native Americans carry the R1 haplogroup"

Because there has been (at least) 500 years of interbreeding with European R1 (mostly R1b) men.

R1, and especially R1b, is found *extensively* west of the Urals, with R1b especially heavily concentrated in Scotland, Ireland and Wales (it's also fairly common in England and, yes, Spain.).

R1a is found more commonly in *eastern* Europe and *western* Asia, about as far east as northern India.

The R groups are found *minimally* or *not at all* in *eastern* and especially northeastern Asia. If they *were not there*, they *could not* have crossed into Beringia and the Americas.
https://eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml

A few anthropologists think the Americas began to be populated shortly after, or possibly even about the same time as, the Aborigines populated Australia. (We're talking around 40,000 years ago, give or take ten thousand or so.) There is considerable doubt that Y-haplogroup R is quite *that* old. (It really only became dominant in western Europe relatively recently, almost within historic times, and probably - though not certainly - coeval with the Indo-European dispersion.)

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