Thomas Bruce, 1st Baron Clackmannan - Issue's

Started by Private User on Sunday, December 27, 2020
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Private User
12/27/2020 at 5:31 AM

Will like to share the charters of Clackmannan.
1 Robert de Bruys "Consanguineo Nostro'"17 Jan 1367- granted lands and barony of Rate in the county of Perth.
2.Son Thomas "Edward" Bruys 2 May 1389-granted lands of Wester Kennet (stated that Robert de Bruys died around this date)
3.4 the Oct 1393-Crown charter by King Robert the 3rd
4 10th June 1393 - Charter by Robert de. Bruys to his beloved son Thomas "Edward" de Bruys.
The Line is run like this in the Chamber's encyclopaedia, I'm astonished that it seems like I'm the only one who has read the Charters of
Clackmannan, one would think that's the first place you would research
This is telling me clearly that Robert the Bruce had a Son Robert Bruce who had a son Thomas "Edward" Bruce nothing at all confusing here.. ..so what is the problem?
I have conversed with no response to the curator with no response, our tree is incorrect and saying some guy says he thinks Edward Bruce is the father of Thomas Bruce 1st Baron of Clackmannan but has no sources or Record is a very weak explanation to the reasoning why the tree is running the way it is

12/27/2020 at 9:05 AM

Please resend the communiction you say we had on this. I've been having surgery recently, so I may have missed it, or I simply do not recall.

12/27/2020 at 9:27 AM

cf conversation here: https://www.geni.com/discussions/222553?msg=1433894 doesn't seem to be covering this?

12/27/2020 at 9:31 AM

cf https://archive.org/stream/collectionstowar1868clac/collectionstowa...

No. 7,— dated ]7th Jan. 1367.— A Crown
Charter by Sing David II. to and in favour of
Robert de Bruys who is again designed " con-
sanguineo nostro," granting the lands and
barony of Rate in the county of Perth to be
holden of the King and his successors in fee
and heritage, and in free barony for service of
3 suits at the King's Courts at Perth — granted
at Restenneth on the above date.

No. 9.-2 May 1389.— Charter of Robert de
Bruys of Clackmannan and Rate to and in
favour of Thomas de Bruys, his son, where-
by " for good services" he grants the said
Thomas the lands of Wester Kennet and others
for payment to his said father of a silver penny
yearly. In the history of Noble British
Families, part 3, p. 15, it is stated that Robert
de Bruce died about this period, and the next
Charters of resignation were probably made by
the possessor of the estate on succeeding thereto.

No. 10.— 4th Oct., 1393— Crown Charter of
Resignation by King Robert III., proceeding
on the Rocuratory of Resignation of Robert de
Bruys, whereby the King new grants the
lands and Barony of Clackmannan, and all the
pertinents, to Robert de Bruys, whom failing, to
David Bruys, his eldest son, and the heirs male,
procreated or to be procreated, of his body,
whom failing, to Thomas Bruys, also his son,
and the heirs male of his body, to be held of
the KiDg and his successors in fee and heritage.
Witnesses : Walter, Bishop of St Andrews ;
Mathew, Karl of Monteath and Fife, brother to
the King ; James de Douglas, Lord of Dalkeith ;
Thomas de Erskine, knight ; and Alexander de
Cockburn of Langtown, Keeper of the Great
Seal. The description of the Barony in this
Charter is as follows (when translated) : —The
town of Clackmannan, together with the castle
and meadow thereof, on the east side of the
Water of Dovane (now called Devon), with
tenandries, tofts, crofts, and annual rents,
thereof, and of the said town of Clackmannan,
lands of Grasmanstown, Tulligarth, Linmill,
Gartelove, Kennet, Pitpulden, the Cruikitlands,
the Park meadows, the Gate-end, Dryfield, and
others.

This Charter is somewhat of the nature of an
entail. At its date, according to the theory of
the law, the King might resume the gifted lands
at the death of the vassal to whom he had
granted them, but by this Charter, Robert de
Bruys had gone through the ceremony of resign-
ing or giving them back to the King during his
life, and the King then made a new grant of
them to him, and his two sons, and their heirs
male. It is possible that he might have done
this on succeeding his father about this date.

No. 11.— 10th June, 1393— Charter by Robert
de Bruys, Lord of Rate and Clackmannan, to
his " beloved son, Thomas de Bruys," and his
heirs, and assigns of an annualentof ten merks,
payable furth off his lands of Tullygarth, lying
in the county of Clackmannan, and that in con-
sideration of a certain sum of money paid to him,
the said Robert de Bruys, in his urgent necessity.
To be holden of the said Robert de Bruys and
his heirs redeemable on payment of the sum of
25 merks. Witnesses : John, the son of William
de Angus ; John of Gharie, and John of Petty-
now, — signed at Dunfermline.

No. 12.— 18th February, 1399— Crown Char-
ter of Resignation and Confirmation by King
Robert III., ratifying and confirming the Char-
ter No. 9, granted by Robert de Bruys to his
son, Thomas, of the lands of Wester Kennet,
Pitfoulden, and the Cruikitland, all lying in the
county of Clackmannan. Witnesses : Walter,
Bishop of St Andrews ; Gilbert, Bishop of
Aberdeen, Chancellor of Scotland ; David, Earl
of Carrick and Athol, and Stewart of Scotland,
eldest son of the King ; Robert, Duke of Albany,
Earl of Fife and Monteath, brother to the King ;
Archibald, Earl of Douglas, Lord Galloway ;
James of Douglas, Lord of Dalkeith : and
Thomas de Erskine, knight,— signed at Edin-
burgh.

From this time the estate of Kennet con-
tinued separate from that of Clackmannan, and
although the families continued on the most
iutimate terms, and the heiress of Kennet,
in 1568, married one of the cadets of Clack-
mannanan, the estates have never been united.

12/27/2020 at 10:00 AM

The Thomas Bruce you've attached this to Thomas Bruce, 1st Baron of Clackmannan about whom Cawley says "The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified" http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SCOTLAND.htm#RobertIdied1329A -

12/27/2020 at 10:07 AM

This Thomas was granted land in Clackmannan by King Robert II of Scotland after organising a revolt against the English in 1334 acc to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bruce,_1st_Baron_of_Clackmannan

Private User
12/27/2020 at 10:11 AM

That was very insightful Sharon, thank you These charters clearly show the line and as I'm full of admiration for King of Ireland Edward Bruce he is not the father of Thomas Bruce

12/27/2020 at 10:13 AM

Re: "This is telling me clearly that Robert the Bruce had a Son Robert Bruce who had a son Thomas "Edward" Bruce nothing at all confusing here.. ..so what is the problem?"

Sir Robert Bruce, 2nd Baron Clackmannan & Rate; proprietor of lands of Kennet has a son Sir Robert Bruce, 3rd Baron of Clackmannan who had a son Thomas Bruce, 1st of Wester Kennet, Pitfoulden and Cruicket.

I see no problem? What am I missing?

12/27/2020 at 10:30 AM

I can cut Thomas Bruce, 1st Baron of Clackmannan off from all parents if you prefer.

Private User
12/27/2020 at 10:34 AM

Can see why you are apprehensive about this,when I was trying to sort this line out and make sense of it I had to stop researching sources and started looking at record's.Other than this source of Crawley I have not seen anything that convinces me that this statement holds water.For me there is no better record than the Charters and it's clear to me that Robert Bruce of Ross and Clackmannan is the father of Thomas "Edward" Bruce 1st Baron of Clackmannan .

12/27/2020 at 10:39 AM

"it's clear to me that Robert Bruce of Ross and Clackmannan is the father of Thomas "Edward" Bruce 1st Baron of Clackmannan ."

I'm not seeing that from those Charters -
I see: Robert Bruce, 2nd Baron of Clackmannan has a son Robert Bruce, 3rd Baron of Clackmannan who had a son Thomas Bruce, of Wester Kennet https://www.geni.com/discussions/223582?msg=1438830

Private User
12/27/2020 at 10:49 AM

Ok Sharon that will be most helpful.
Will I be able to edit in the tree and have time to load the source's and records to validate the line? , and I'm also having issues with 2, 4 and 5 Baron's of Clackmannan as they are not in the Chamber's encyclopaedia or in the Charters of Clackmannan?.Will not alter the main profiles until we have discussed the issues

12/27/2020 at 11:15 AM

No. 1. — The first record in the present series
is an extract from old Public accounts of the
kingdom, dated 20th June, 1330, " Compotum
Reginaldi More Camerarii Scotie reddit. apud
Glackmannane vicesimo die Junii anno Gratia;
1330 de receptis suis expensisin diem presentis
compoti." In this half-yearly account the following payment is taken credit for " Domino
Roberto de Bruys in partem quingentarum
marcarum sibi concess. per Dominum Regem
defunctum de anno hujus compoti £40." It
does not appear from the account which Sir
Robert de Bruce this was ; it however goes
far to disprove the statement in the second
volume of Chalmers' History of Dunfermline, p.
424, that a Sir Robert de Bruce was not the
first of the Bruces of Clackmannan, but that a
Thomas de Brace, who left a widow "Marjorie
Charleris," was, prior to 1358, Lord of Clack-
mannan. No Thomas is mentioned in these
charters till Thomas obtains Kennet from his
father, in 1389. In 1326, Sir Robert de Bruce,
probably the Sir Robert above mentioned, was
a witness to a charter of King Robert the
Bruce of lands in Nith to the Abbey of Melrose,
(Liber Cash : S. Cracis Munimenta Ecc : S.
Crucis de Edin.) ;

12/27/2020 at 11:18 AM

Note: it however goes
far to disprove the statement in the second
volume of Chalmers' History of Dunfermline, p.
424, that a Sir Robert de Bruce was not the
first of the Bruces of Clackmannan, but that a
Thomas de Brace, who left a widow "Marjorie
Charleris," was, prior to 1358, Lord of Clack-
mannan. No Thomas is mentioned in these
charters till Thomas obtains Kennet from his
father, in 1389.

12/27/2020 at 11:49 AM

No. 4, dated 9th December, 1359, is the first
charter yet known containing any grant of the
Castle and Barony of Clackmannan. It was
made by King David Bruce to and in favour of
his beloved and faithful cousin, ("dilecto et
fedeli consanguineo nostro,") Robert de Bruys
of the Castle and Barony of Clackmannan, the
lands of Grasmenston, Gartlove, Wester Kennet,
Hillend, Carsehill, Greys, Park Meadow, Dry-
field, Tullygarth, Pitfoulden, and others, within
the Sheriffdom of Clackmannan. This charter
is believed to be still in existence. It was
quoted by Dr Nathaniel Johnston in 1691,
when he wrote his MS. History of the Braces,
now among the Harliem MS., No. 3079, in the
British Museum, and the original is presumed
to be with the Bruce charters in the repositories
of the Hon. Bruce Oglivie, who, through his
mother, is descended from the Bruces of Clack-
mannan. As explained under No. 3, the word
" consanguineo nostri" are a recognition of this
Robert Bruce as the King's blood relation. It
is probable that he may have been the son of
Sir Robert de Bruce mentioned in Nos. 1. and 2,

who was living between 1326 and 1330. Robert
de Bruce, it will be observed, who obtains the
lands of Clackmannan, is not called "Dominus,"
or Sir, in the first charter ; he therefore was
probably very young at the time of his father's
death, (which Chalmers, in his MS. notes to
Douglas' Peerage of Scotland, fixes in 1332),
and this may account for a period of 27 years
before we again find among the present existing
charters any notice of Clackmannan or the
Bruces. On the authority of Johnston's MS.,
before quoted, this second Robert is stated to
have married Isabel, daughter of Sir Robert
Stewart of Rosyth Castle, a second cousin of
King Robert II. The year previous to this
grant, Sir Thomas de Murray, Lord of Both-
well, granted to Sir Robert Stewart, his cousin,
the Barony of Shanbody, to be held of Thomas
de Moravia and his heirs, " for service at the
King's Court of Clackmannan," which is corro-
borative of the belief that until the grant of
1359 (by No. 4) Clackmannan had continued to
be a Royal residence when the King, assisted
by the principal Officers of State, exercised
jurisdiction according to the custom of the
period. Edward de Brace, a son of this Robert
of Clackmannan, is said to have married, about JuUL /4/7
1440>j_ the heiress of Sir William de AirthTlfiid
acquired that estate. The Airth charters (now
in the possession of Mrs GaUwey, the sister
and heiress of Lieut.-Colonel Richard L. B.
Dundas of Blair, the representative of Bruce of
Airth,) commence 1417, when, by a charter of
that date, Robert, Duke of Albany, Regent of
Scotland, grants the lands of Airt h, or a portion "i'lL
of them^to Sir William deT3rawford, knight of gu .
Manuel. <§In 1457, John, Lord Lindsay o{tt/KcAatiM4
Byres, appears to have been in possession of the z ta^u^ jjL^
Barony of Airth. In 1483, David, Lord Lynd- 1^«, f\ju
sey, was seized of the Barony of Airth. In *V**'^ ^*^J
1497, there is a precept from King James tom^^^Jm
Robert Bruce, Sheriff of Stirling, directing him '
to deliver seizin of the lands and Barony of
Airth and others to Patrick Lindsey, brother of
John, Lord Lindsey. In 1508, Sir Robert
Bruce, knight of Airth, and John Montgomery,
procurator for Euphemia, wife of the said Sir
Robert, and Robert Bruce, his son, are men-
tioned in a precept of seizin of this date, granted
by the Earl of Lennox, of an annulet of five
marks out of the lands of Baldrave, in the
Sheriffdom of Dumbarton.

No. 5— 1363— From the Acts of Parliament
of this date, vol. 1, p. 168, " Robert de Bruce "
is then stated to be proprietor of the lands of
Kennet.

No. 6.— 20 Oct. 1364.— A Crown Charter by
King David Bruce to and in favour of " Robert
de Brays," who is again styled " consanguineo
nostri" of the lands of Grassmynston, Gartlove
Carse, "La Park meadow," Crage Roy,Dryfield,

hMLJk

-Skibi

and others, with the pertinents all lying within
the Sheriffdom of Clackmannan. The lands
thus granted or confirmed by Nos. 4 and 6 ex-
tended for several miles, and comprehended
probably more than half the county. The
names of most of the parcels can still be recog-
nised as they have been comparatively little
altered to suit the modern style of spelling.

Private User
12/27/2020 at 12:07 PM

Thank you Sharon that's most helpful

12/27/2020 at 9:10 PM

This is what I see from those charters:

1) Sir Robert Bruce fl 1326-30 Possibly died by 1359

Sources :
*In 1326, Sir Robert de Bruce,
probably the Sir Robert above[below] mentioned, was a witness to a charter of King Robert the Bruce of lands in Nith to the Abbey of Melrose, Sir Robert Bruce

*20th June, 1330
Roberto de Bruys pays in old Public accounts of the kingdom, dated, 20th June, 1330

12/27/2020 at 9:34 PM

2) Robert de Bruys Baron Clackmannan & Rate; proprietor of lands of Kennet (<1359 - >1393) cousin/nephew to King David

x Isabel Stewart

*David
*Thomas (of Wester Kennet from 1389)
*Edward x 1440 heiress of Sir William de Airth

Sources :
*9th December, 1359, is the first charter yet known containing any grant of the
Castle and Barony of Clackmannan. It was made by King David Bruce to and in favour of his beloved and faithful cousin, ("dilecto et fedeli consanguineo nostro,") Robert de Bruys of the Castle and Barony of Clackmannan, the lands of Grasmenston, Gartlove, Wester Kennet, Hillend, Carsehill, Greys, Park Meadow, Dryfield, Tullygarth, Pitfoulden, and others, within the Sheriffdom of Clackmannan (.It Is probable that he may have been the son of Sir Robert de Bruce mentioned in Nos. 1.[above] and 2,who was living between 1326 and 1330. Robert de Bruce, it will be observed, who obtains the lands of Clackmannan, is not called "Dominus,"or Sir, in the first charter ; he therefore was probably very young at the time of his father's death, (which Chalmers, in his MS. notes to Douglas' Peerage of Scotland, fixes in 1332), and this may account for a period of 27 years before we again find among the present existing charters any notice of Clackmannan or the Bruces. On the authority of Johnston's MS., before quoted, this second Robert is stated to have married Isabel, daughter of Sir Robert
Stewart of Rosyth Castle, a second cousin of King Robert II.

*1363— From the Acts of Parliament of this date, vol. 1, p. 168, " Robert de Bruce "is then stated to be proprietor of the lands of Kennet.

*20 Oct. 1364.— A Crown Charter by King David Bruce to and in favour of " Robert de Brays," who is again styled " consanguineo nostri" of the lands of Grassmynston, Gartlove Carse, "La Park meadow," Crage Roy,Dryfield,and others, with the pertinents all lying within the Sheriffdom of Clackmannan.

*17th Jan. 1367.— A Crown Charter by Sing David II. to and in favour of Robert de Bruys who is again designed " consanguineo nostro," granting the lands and barony of Rate in the county of Perth to be holden of the King and his successors in fee and heritage, and in free barony for service of 3 suits at the King's Courts at Perth — granted at Restenneth on the above date. Thomas obtains Kennet from his father, 2

*May 1389.— Charter of Robert de Bruys of Clackmannan and Rate to and in
favour of Thomas de Bruys, his son, whereby " for good services" he grants the said
Thomas the lands of Wester Kennet and others for payment to his said father of a silver penny yearly. In the history of Noble British Families, part 3, p. 15, it is stated that Robert de Bruce died about this period, and the next Charters of resignation were probably made by the possessor of the estate on succeeding thereto. [WHY, THO?]

*4th Oct., 1393— Crown Charter of Resignation by King Robert III., proceeding on the Rocuratory of Resignation of Robert de Bruys, whereby the King new grants the lands and Barony of Clackmannan, and all the pertinents, to Robert de Bruys, whom failing, to David Bruys, his eldest son, and the heirs male, procreated or to be procreated, of his body, whom failing, to Thomas Bruys, also his son, and the heirs male of his body, to be held of the King and his successors in fee and heritage.
By this Charter, Robert deBruys had gone through the ceremony of resigning or giving them back to the King during his life, and the King then made a new grant of them to him, and his two sons, and their heirs male.

*10th June, 1393— Charter by Robert de Bruys, Lord of Rate and Clackmannan, to
his " beloved son, Thomas de Bruys," and his heirs, and assigns of an annualent of ten merks, payable furth off his lands of Tullygarth, lying in the county of Clackmannan, and that in consideration of a certain sum of money paid to him, the said Robert de Bruys, in his urgent necessity. To be holden of the said Robert de Bruys and
his heirs redeemable on payment of the sum of 25 merks.

*18th February, 1399— Crown Charter of Resignation and Confirmation by King Robert III., ratifying and confirming the Charter No. 9, granted by Robert de Bruys to his son, Thomas, of the lands of Wester Kennet, Pitfoulden, and the Cruikitland, all lying in the
county of Clackmannan. From this time the estate of Kennet continued separate from that of Clackmannan, and although the families continued on the most intimate terms, and the heiress of Kennet, in 1568, married one of the cadets of Clackmannanan, the estates have never been united.

*4 Jul 1440 Edward de Brace, a son of this Robert of Clackmannan, is said to have married, about Jul /4/7/1440 the heiress of Sir William de Airth & acquired that estate.

12/27/2020 at 9:35 PM

Alternatively, you can add an extra Robert in there - if you decide that Robert [de Bruys Baron Clackmannan & Rate; proprietor of lands of Kennet (<1359 - >1399)] actually dies around 1389 as is stated In the history of Noble British Families, part 3, p. 15

viz

2) Robert de Bruys Baron Clackmannan & Rate; proprietor of lands of Kennet (<1359 - >1399) cousin/nephew to King David

x Isabel Stewart

*3) Robert de Bruys
>*David
>*Thomas (of Wester Kennet from 1389)
>*Edward x 1440 heiress of Sir William de Airth

But, I cannot see why this is more logical, because it actually means that the May 1389 Charter giving Thomas Kennet, must already have been concluded by the extra Robert (*3 above) as the father - which means that Robert 2) must be said to have died BEFORE 1389.

12/27/2020 at 9:47 PM

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/ecco/004896980.0001.000/1:99?rgn=div1;... Interprets it this way:

Sir ROBERT BRUCE of Clackmannan, (<1359 - c1393)
9th December 1359 got a charter from king David II. dilecto et sideli consanguineo nostro, Roberto Bruis, "of the castle and manor of Clackmannan, Gyrmanston, Garclew, Wester Kennault, Pit•oluden," with a great many other lands; all lying within the sheriffdom of Clackmannan..

20th October 1365 He got also a charter under the great seal from the same prince, of the lands of Gyr∣mansto•n,Kennet,* and several others in the shire of Clackmannan, contained in the pre∣ceeding charter, to him, and the lawful heir-male of his body.

17th January 1369 And another charter, under the great seal,of the lands of Rait in Perthshire, to the same sir Robert, and the lawful heirs-male of his body,* ; in both
which charters he is designed the king's be∣loved cousin, &c. And certain it is▪ there
was no family of the name of Bruce then in Scotland, so nearly related to the royal fami∣ly by blood as that of Clackmannan.

This sir Robert married dame Isabel Stew∣art, daughter of sir Robert Stewart,* ancestor
of the family of Rosythe, by whom he had issue, five sons and one daughter.

1. Sir Robert, his heir.

2. Edward, ancestor of the Bruces of Airth,of whom the Bruces of 〈◊〉 Kinloch, Bunzion, &c. are descended.

3. Alexander, ancestor of the Bruces of Garbot, &c.

4.—, ancestor of the Bruces of Munas, &c.

5. James, who was bred to the church, of which he became a great ornament for pi∣ety
and learning.* He was bishop of Dun∣keld, anno 1441, chancellor of Scotland, anno
1444, and archbishop of Glasgow, anno 1447, in which last year he died.

His daughter Helen, married David Ross of Balnagowan, representative of the ancient
earls of Ross.

He died before the year 1393, and was succeeded by his eldest son...

12/27/2020 at 9:50 PM

II. Sir ROBERT BRUCE of Clackmannan, ( - 1405)

12th August 1393, at Linlithgow - who, upon his own resignation, got a charter
from king Robert III. of the lands of Rait in Perth-shire,* to himself in liferent, and to Da∣vid his eldest lawful son, and the heirs-male of his body in fee; which failing, to his own nearest heirs whatsomever.

24th October 1394 - And another charter of the same prince, of the lands of Clackmannan, &c. to himself in liferent,* and to the said David his lawful son, and the heirs-male of his body, in fee; which failing, to his son Thomas, and his heirs-male; which failing, to return to the king, &c.; in both which charters, this sir Robert is design∣ed the king's beloved cousin, and his son Da∣vid is so designed in the last.

He married a daughter of sir John Scrym∣geour of Dudhope,* ancestor of the earl of
Dundee, by whom he had one son,

David, his heir.

1399 - His son Thomas Bruce, mentioned in the above charter,* obtained from his father the lands of Wester-Kenneth, which is confirmed by a charter from king Robert III.

Sir Robert of Clackmannan died anno 1405, and was succeeded by his eldest son...

12/27/2020 at 9:51 PM

III. Sir DAVID BRUCE of Clackmannan,

6th October 1406 - who made a renunciation of the tythes of the mills of Clackmannan,* to the canons regular of Cambuskenneth, and is then designed David de Bruce, dominus de Clackmannan.

He married Jean,* daughter of sir John Stewart of Innermeath and Lorn, by whom
he had issue two sons.

1. John, his heir.

2. Patrick Bruce, who got a charter, un∣der the great seal,* of the lands of Hill, dated
anno 1449.

12/27/2020 at 10:00 PM

It all depends (it seems to me) on how you interpret this: *4th Oct., 1393— Crown Charter of Resignation by King Robert III., proceeding on the Rocuratory of Resignation of Robert de Bruys, whereby the King new grants the lands and Barony of Clackmannan, and all the pertinents, to Robert de Bruys, whom failing, to David Bruys, his eldest son, and the heirs male, procreated or to be procreated, of his body, whom failing, to Thomas Bruys, also his son, and the heirs male of his body, to be held of the King and his successors in fee and heritage.
By this Charter, Robert deBruys had gone through the ceremony of resigning or giving them back to the King during his life, and the King then made a new grant of them to him, and his two sons, and their heirs male.

Either:

Robert
*David (son of Robert)
*Thomas (son of Robert)

Or - as in https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/ecco/004896980.0001.000/1:99?rgn=div1;...
Robert
*David (son of Robert)
**Thomas (son of David)

I'm just not seeing the second version as the more logical

12/27/2020 at 10:32 PM

Also, that charter clearly states that Thomas is paying his father ROBERT not David.

*May 1389.— Charter of Robert de Bruys of Clackmannan and Rate to and in
favour of Thomas de Bruys, his son, whereby " for good services" he grants the said
Thomas the lands of Wester Kennet and others for payment to his said father of a silver penny yearly.

12/27/2020 at 11:06 PM

https://archive.org/stream/collectionstowar1868clac/collectionstowa...
summarises the history of the two families at Clackmannan and Kennet so:

In 1359, Robert Bruce, a cousin of King David IT., obtains a gift of the castle and
Barony of Clackmannan.

In 1389, he gives Kennet, which is a part of that barony, to his son, Thomas ; and, in 1393, King Robert III confirms this gift, and with the consent of Robert Bruce, the father, settles Clackmannan on David Bruce, the eldest son and Kennet on Thomas Bruce, the second son

David is succeeded by his son, John, sometime before 1423, while Thomas of Kennet is succeeded by his son, Peter, in or before 1423, and he again is succeeded by his grandson, David Bruce, in or before 1447.

12/27/2020 at 11:13 PM

So

2) Robert de Bruys Baron Clackmannan & Rate; proprietor of lands of Kennet (<1359 - >1393) cousin/nephew to King David

x Isabel Stewart

*David (of Clackmannan from 1393)
**John (of Clackmannan before 1423)
*Thomas (of Wester Kennet from 1389)
** Peter (of Wester Kennet by 1423)
***David (of Wester Kennet by 1447)
*Edward x 1440 heiress of Sir William de Airth

12/27/2020 at 11:43 PM

cf
Robert I the Bruce, King of Scots Reign 25 March 1306 – 7 June 1329

David II, king of Scots Reign 7 June 1329 – 22 February 1371

Robert II, King of Scots Reign 22 February 1371 – 19 April 1390

Robert III, King of Scots Reign 1390-1406

12/28/2020 at 12:12 AM

Burke's peerage adds in the extra Robert: https://books.google.co.za/books?id=KxdVAAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA486&amp;r...

but contradicts the children given in Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bruce,_3rd_Baron_of_Clackmannan -
David Bruce, who succeeded his father as 4th Baron of Clackmannan;
Edward Bruce, who married Agnes, the daughter and co-heiress of Sir William Airth of Airth;
James Bruce, later Bishop of Dunkeld.[1]

who nevertheless use him as their source.

Instead Burke has
*Robert of Clackmannan from King David 9 Dec 1359 and died c 1390

*succeeded by son Robert (2nd baron of Clackmannan) x daughter of Sir John Scrimgeour of Dudhope - died 1405 leaving 2 sons:

*David (Sir) 3rd baron of Clackmannan
*Thomas - given Wester Kennet by his father 8 May 1389, confirmed by Robert III 18 Feb 1399 died during James I, King of Scots reign (4 April 1406 – 21 February 1437)
succeeded by his son Thomas confirmed by 1428 charter died before 1460 in James II reign
succeeded by his son David x Agnes Redhach

12/28/2020 at 12:19 AM

cf http://redbookofscotland.co.uk/bruce-of-clackmannan which, again, misses the Thomas and David brothers

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