Deliverance Crispe (Mansell) - Calling for a CURATOR please... This profile has become conflated

So this is what I come up with.

It’s all the fault of Jonathan Crispe sister Deliverance Longley

Earlier genealogies were unsure of the identities of William Longley, II wives - and because it’s a way dramatic story (killed by Indians! Kidnapped to Canada!) widely spread attempts to identify them. Lydia? deliverance? Both? Neither? Mansell!! ? ???

There was a close connection between the Crisp & Longley families already, so chances of Lydia or Deliverance being related To them was good. Especially since we’re looking at Joanna Crispe - (unproven) daughter of an escaped Regicide - (more drama!) - as 2nd wife Longley’s dad. So it became clear that Mrs Deliverance Longley was either a daughter of Benjamin or a widowed daughter in law.

It wasn’t until 1987 that she was definitively shown to be a daughter. So how many trees, books. Etc still have the old information? Lots, I’m sure.

So this explains all the Deliverances -

Deliverance Longley, Deliverance Pease, and Deliverance Mansell

—-

As far as I know, Jonathan Crispe died unmarried. It is possible he married Pease (according to,Miner Descent) or a Mansell (according to WeRelate), but he did not have any children anyone knows about.

And he is certainly not the same as “North Carolina” Crisp

There was a bad merge into Jonathan Crisp of Watertown & Groton of a profile named ‘North Carolina’ Crisp, married to Lydia Crisp and parents of William “Mansell” Crisp, Sr.

Who did not have a middle name and the family name affiliated could as easily have been Mancill. But I would bet the Mancill is not a name at all, but a French - corrupted title or nickname like the “Grancer” you see in North Carolina families.

Lydia Faure has DNA study notes in her “About.” I can’t “prove” it but I have no argument with it. So I am inclined to leave this profile as the mother of the William Crisp who actually has a history and a descent. Unlike Jonathan!

Does this all make sense?

Does everyone agree?

If anyone can download - upload http://www.oocities.org/oceanbreez.geo/crmisc5.htm to Williams profile that would be very useful. It’s the study Cynthia cut & paste before. I tried copying out her post to a doc and the formatting fell apart. And that old study is probably best there is, and it would be a horrible shame to lose it off the internet, which will happen any minute now.

Also the links Cynthia assembled as a reference list at the bottom of Williams “about” - not the top, because most of them are flawed, one way or another.

Deliverance Pease Was not the wife of Jonathan Crispe. She was much too young (b abt 1673)

She was a “witches” daughter:

From * Pease, Elaine K., "Goody Pease of Salem Town," (The Essex Genealogist, August, 1984 (vol. 4, no. 3), pp. 126-135.) PDF

The second daughters named Deliverance and Bethiah would have been 18 and 16, respectively, and it is likely they were unmarried at the time of their mother's arrest (1692).

(More drama ...)

Mansell is I suppose possible but finding her will be harder, There’s only one Mansell family listed at Early Massachusetts Vital Records, and she’s in the 1700s.
https://ma-vitalrecords.org/VRSI_M02.shtml

No Mansell in Bond’s “Watertown ...”

https://books.google.com/books?id=_oc6AQAAIAAJ&lpg=PA331&dq...

Excellent work, Erica Howton. Really beautiful and so full of life and history.

I am looking them over...

So this Lydia Faure is the direct ancestor of my husband and of Jerry Prater and is managed by Private. I made a duplicate and merged so I can be a manager as well and perhaps see it further fleshed out for possible curation in the near future. It is a DNA proved line nearly LOST to history and so I thank each and every one of you. Just amazing!

In looking at these profiles, I have one request off the bat. Mary Wilkinson is apparently the daughter of the other wife as the Consistency error is saying Frances was too young. It is relationship locked which I am most grateful for but think she needs switched. William Mansell Crisp, Jr. is also coming up as Frances is under age 12 at his birth. Please change mother to Mercy for these two children only.

I am looking at the link I shared in a cut/paste here and it is now not loading at all... I did manage yesterday to save it as a web page and a word doc so I will try to get those attached.

Can you edit this?:
This is the Master Profile for William “Mansell” Crisp, Sr..
Curator Note from Erica Howton (today):
Wife or wives uncertain, parents unproven.

Frances and all these children are named in his will and his parents are not named but DNA confirms he is where he needs to be until more information comes about regarding the parents.....

What is the criteria for being certain and proven? Not arguing at all, just asking

Uncertainty for my curator notes refer to names. I’ll remove the note if it confuses.

Just added this from FamilySearch

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LHJ6-TWH

First Wife’s Children Listed in Will
# Daughter Mary Wilkerson
# Daughter Ann
# Daughter Sarah Edmonson; deceased
# Son John Crisp
# Son William
# Daughter Susannah
# Daughter Martha Flake
# Son Bray Crisp
# Daughter Elizabeth Little; deceased
# Son Francis Crisp; deceased,

Second Wife Francie’s Children as Listed in Will
# Daughter Winifred Gibbs
# Daughter Lydia Whitfield
# Daughter Isabel Whitley
# Son Samuel Crisp
# Son Benjamin Crisp
# Daughter Sealey Bulluke
# Son Jesse Crisp
# Son Ezekiel Crisp

I’m also removing relationship locks so others can work on sorting / moving children. I can’t progress it personally and now that we figured out the parentage more or less, RL at that level will solve it. You have too many children to keep track of there.

I’m skeptical about Mercy Crisp as name

“Doane” is a Cape Cod name.

Frances was wife named in will, so she’s certain, but do you have evidence for Whitley maiden name?

I went ahead and updated Mercy Crisp as per this comment:

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/collaborate/LBMF-P31

” I have followed and researched the Crisp line for many years. Many people have searched for William Crisp’s first wife(s) but nothing has been found. Mercy would have been about 15 years older than William, not impossible as spouse but improbable. Is there anything definitive other than grave data?”

Just a comment. Find a Grave’s relationship linking is really bad for Jonathan Crisp “family.”

*sigh...
You and I BOTH know the FAG and the FS are useless with THIS family... (among others)

He does not mention the first wife's name. I see Mercy Down/Doan same as you... Frances is plain as day. Whitley comes with the profile that was here long before I...
I think Whitley is correct but may take DNA to prove it and I am just not working this line right now as it is not a direct for me

And these children may be a lot to manage but they are ALL mentioned in the will.

Family Search is good on this family descent, not the origins though, I think Whitley is OK. I just moved the 10 children by 1st wife / wives over, most don’t have dates. The only child that looks hinky so far is John Lowery Crisp there’s a good note for him at FS

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LLMX-QL3

I don’t see a son “Abel”

Ahhh! I stopped too soon......
So on the FS link you shared here, I removed any parents for William because we know the ones there are incorrect.
I appreciate all the hard work that went into this, Erica Howton

A "JOHN" is mentioned in the will. Name John Lowery Crisp Caswell, no idea where that comes into the picture. Maybe the Geni user who added him can say?

Wikitree calls him John Lowry Crisp

https://www.mysouthernroots.com/getperson.php?personID=P179470550&a...

FS calls him John Caswell Crisp but gives no source for the middle name

There were 2 Johns, 1 from 1st wife. FS says no evidence for Lowry name.

You mean no evidence at Wikitree for Lowry name
Maybe just get rid of the middle name altogether and let someone add it back with evidence.
I had disconnected an Elizabeth and then saw her in the will and had to make a merge request... other than that I did not remove any children.
I did get the oocitie uploaded as a source for WIlliam Crisp

Sorry - only one John. 1st wife.

John Lowery Crisp

No, I meant that FS says no evidence for Lowry name. I didn’t look at Wikitree. Great on getting the old oocity notes saved to Geni!

Now let me get out of North Carolina before Deliverance shows back up.

lol
You are a blessing. Thank you

I couldn’t resist more drama.

John Crisp was sued for child support of his daughter Frances Reynolds

I have been following this as best as I could with 5 hours of interviews for teaching positions today, so not much except before and not. Ya'll are amazing.

Cynthia Curtis, A183502, US7875087, Lowry is an old NC name with Native ties. It may be something that is known and not documented. Some other records may be out there through tribal sources.