Lt. Col. Thomas Claiborne - https://www.geni.com/people/Lt-Col-Thomas-Claiborne/6000000002174560552 has two Fathers & Mothers.

Notes in profile:

Son of Secy William Claiborne and Elizabeth Butler. Thomas married Sarah Fenn and had one son, Thomas who married Anne Fox, and a daughter Agnes Frances Claiborne who married Thomas West.

I’m going to undo merges.

The daughter is controversial, it turns out.

I meant Sarah Thompson but Mary Cox needs sourcing. Research away.

From the profile for Elizabeth Claiborne

“ William & Elizabeth’s children were 1) Jane, 2) John, 3) THOMAS, 4) William, Jr. “the younger”, and 5) Leonard. William had died by Mar 1677, probably on his plantation, Romancoke.”

I’m disconnecting Mary.

Here’s the actual family

https://photos.geni.com/p13/d8/47/15/2a/5344483a37adfe2b/thomas_brereton_rootsinvirginiaanaccountofcaptainthomashalevirgi_332179009_original.jpg

Sure, let’s examine the evidence.

Section: Lineage Records
Source Information
The Compendium of American Genealogy, Vol. III [database on-line]. https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/48079/images/CompA...

Claims Mary, daughter of Secretary Claiborne, Married 1) ? Rice 2) Robert Harris (d 1701)

I’ll upload the doc,

Here’s from the Thomas Claiborne Society:

http://www.claibornesociety.org/research/WILLIAM_CLAIBORNE_biograph...

John Frederick Dorman in Claiborne of Virginia places the marriage of William Claiborne and Elizabeth Butler [Boteler] as about 1635. This book contains the genealogical information for them and their children :

1. William (abt 1636-1678)
2. Jane (abt 1638-bef 1671)
3. John (abt 1641- ?)
4. Elizabeth (1643/45- aft 1668)
5. Thomas (1647-1683)
6. Leonard (abt 1649-1694)

—-

I’m pretty sure that Virkus’ “Compendiums” are considered outdated and unreliable, and that Dorman is thought top notch.

However I’d say Geni should be congruent with the Family organization. Anyone in contact with them?

They look active - $20 for dues. Probably have info on both Mary’s.

http://www.claibornesociety.org/projects/

http://www.claibornesociety.org/research/

And this Mary Harris seems “quite” controversial.

From the profile for Robert Harris:

Major Robert Harris of "The Forks"

Possible Marriage

The conclusion of several researchers of the Harris family is that Robert Harris of Wales (1630-1700), about 1650, married the widowed Mrs. Mary Rice, whose maiden name was Claiborne. She, reportedly the widow of one Edward Rice, was the daughter of Secretary William Claiborne and his wife Elizabeth Butler. These same researchers have concluded that Robert and Mary's son, William, born in 1665, married Temperance Overton (b. 1679), daughter of William Overton.

However, Dr. Harris has written, "It seems more probable that Robert Harris did marry Mary Rice, widow of Edward Rice and daughter of Col. William Claiborne and Elizabeth Butler his wife, but there is no record left to prove it, as far as known [parts of sentence are italicized], for records have been destroyed." In a later publication concerning the Claiborne family, John Frederick Dorman writes in a footnote that there is no evidence of a such a marriage.

Davis also cautions that there is no definitive answer concerning the wife of Robert Harris. Neither does there seem to be evidence of the name of the wife of Edward Rice. There is no documentation that Robert Harris married Mary (Claiborne) Rice, widow, nor is there documentation that William Harris was the son of Robert Harris, "the immigrant. "

Davis points out that the land holdings of both Robert Harris and William Overton were in Blisland Parish, New Kent Co., not too far from the plantation where Colonel William Claiborne had established his home, after he left Kent Island in the Chesapeake Bay.

So it seems Col William may have had an unnamed daughter. Are we sure the reference isn’t to his daughter in law Elizabeth, or a grand Daughter?

There’s no record extant for the name of the wife of Edward Rice or of Robert Harris, is my understanding.

Here’s the record of another daughter

a. The following record is offered as proof that Col. William Claiborne had more than one daughter.

NORTHUMBERLAND COUNTY RECORDS STATE OF VIRGINIA Deeds & Orders 1650 - 1652, pg. 36-William Claiborne 1648

Whereas there are certain debts and other things due to me at Chichecon (i.e. Chicacone) and other places up the Bay. These presents are to appoint and authorize my kinsman Mr. Samuel Smith to ask and receive as also to implead and acquit and compound for any the said debts with any persons inhabitants or beings in the said places and in particular as being guardian unto my two daughters. I do hereby authorize the said Samuel Smythe to take all those cattle at Chiceon into his custody for their use and to receive a heifer due from the estate of James Cloughton for a bull he killed of theirs.

witness hereunto my hand and seal this second day of April 1648

W. Claiborne

Witness: Christopher Williams

—-

I’ve attached to profile: N.N. Claiborne

Tagging Mary ‘Elizabeth’ Harris

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~molcgdrg/sur/1h/harris-notest1.htm

Now, despite it not being my line and really none of my business, I'm still going to say it:

THERE IS NO MARY CLAIBORNE WHO WAS A DAUGHTER OF WILLIAM CLAIBORNE!

WILLIAM CLAIBORNE HAD NO SECOND DAUGHTER NAMED MARY!

ROBERT HARRIS OF NEW KENT IN 1662 WAS NOT MARRIED TO ANYONE NAMED MARY CLAIBORNE RICE!

If there ever was a Mary Claiborne who married a Robert Harris, it occurred two or three generations later much farther west in Virginia. If there was a Mary Claiborne then, she would have been a great granddaughter or later to William Claiborne, definitely not a daughter.

Malcolm Hart Harris is generally credited with being the source of the Mary Claiborne myth, but as Mr. Wallace indicates in his post, Malcolm Hart Harris only made a very slim case that Robert Harris MIGHT have been married to a daughter of William Claiborne. Harris researchers ever since have taken that and made a whole lot more of it than Malcolm Hart Harris ever intended

Phil Harris 3/2/2003
——

More About Robert Maj. Harris:
Burial: Harris graveyard, "forks" of James River, Charles City Co., VA

More About Mary Claiborne:
Date born 2: 1643, James City County, Virginia

More About Robert Harris and Mary Claiborne:
Marriage: 1660, King William Co., VA

Children of Robert Harris and Mary Claiborne are:

• 46 i. Mary8 Harris.
• 47 ii. John Harris, born 1662.
• 48 iii. Thomas Harris, born 1667.
• 49 iv. Claiborne "Ned" Harris, born Abt. 1668.
• + 50 v. William Capt. Harris, born 1669 in Broomfield, Essex, England; died 08 Mar 1705/06 in Cedar Hill, Hanover Co., Virginia.
• 51 vi. Robert Jr. Harris, born Abt. 1675 in Hanover, Co., Virginia.
• 52 vii. Benjamin Harris, born 1677.
• 53 viii. Judith Harris, born 1681.
• 54 ix. Edward Harris, born 17 Apr 1690.

Thanks for explaining, Marvin.

The person I quoted from is a Harris authority - Phil Harris in 2013 - who apparently has done much to Disambiguate the Harris of Virginia families, according to member Tom King. But Tom also has a 2017 note that “Phil is coming around to Claiborne wife.” And it looks like Phil Harris “fought” with Bill Deyo about her. If she was Elizabeth Butler’s daughter she can be traced back to English Kings, so that’s the passion … and incentive. I still think we need to be congruent with the Claiborne Family Association, as they would, I think, do most research.