Records and evidences town Prince Albert, SA and Fort Napier.

Started by Ozren Čulić Viskota Žava on Tuesday, August 24, 2021
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Showing 1-30 of 37 posts
8/24/2021 at 7:30 PM

Hi to All, Sharon Doubell

Does exist maybe a records and evidences from a town called Prince Albert in South Africa and of Fort Napier.

I think and belive a one ancestor Petar Toma Čulić Dragun from a family was died there at June 1914. Maybe, could be found a record of his death.
.
In advance thanks for your replies and directions.

Kind Regards

Ozren

Private User
8/24/2021 at 9:30 PM

Ozren -- will have a look.

8/24/2021 at 10:10 PM

Hi Private User, thanks for your reply, in advance many thanks for looking a possible record. If something be found, feel free add at (and in) his profile.

Kind Regards

Private User
8/24/2021 at 10:17 PM

You could browse 1914 deaths - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G5F5-9Z6Z?owc=Q81G... I didn't see anything in the Fort Napier file

Private User
8/24/2021 at 10:25 PM

22 June 1914
Johannesburg
Peter Culic

Private User
8/24/2021 at 10:26 PM

Birth Place Austria , that would be him I think

8/24/2021 at 10:47 PM

Thx Private User for direction, showing and share a records of SA, I checked after when you shared above records of deaths (Prince Albert place). Seems he wasn't mentioned at June 1914, if also he wasn't mentioned in death records of Fort Napier. So I hope maybe he was mentioned in other place/town of Africa (SA), (or other part of Africa) but which part (place, town,...), because if you see at croatian record (his birth) wasn't mentioned exactly place (town) where he was died, only mentioned June 1914 in Africa. Maybe he died at part of North Africa (?).

8/24/2021 at 10:54 PM

Private User could you please share a link of source of record of death at above date 22 June 1914, where Peter was mentioned in Johannesburg, In advance, thanks.

Private User
8/24/2021 at 11:02 PM

Will add or send to you in message
My own father born 1930 Kingdom of the Serbs ,Croats and Slovenes ( Yugoslavia) but listed as Austrian

Private User
8/24/2021 at 11:09 PM

-- listening to Stjepan Hauser live in Zagreb right now

8/24/2021 at 11:20 PM

Private User, how you decide, you can send, share or add in his (or at his profile, in section About), in meantime I forgot ask you in which of [[Johannesburg, church: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9T7Y-3ZH?owc=SFV7-...]] is a record of death, how can I aslo see and find by own side. Thanks again for add, show and share information from a record of death.

Did he married maybe in Johannesburg and he had a descendants ?

Private User
8/24/2021 at 11:42 PM

Name Peter Culic
Sex Male
Age 43
Death Date 22 Jun 1914
Death Place Johannesburg, Transvaal, South Africa
Death Place (Original) Jeppes Extension, Johannesburg
Birth Year (Estimated) 1871

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WHM6-XM2M

Private User
8/24/2021 at 11:53 PM

says buried Braamfontein on Civil death notice --checked but nothing there .
Could be unmarked grave as he had no relatives .

Private User
8/25/2021 at 12:57 AM

See also this record from National Archives of South Africa (NASA), NAAIRS result -

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl

DEPOT SAB
SOURCE GG
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 1581
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 51/188
PART 1
DESCRIPTION SENTENCES. PETER CULIC ALIAS CUBICK. REMISSION RECOMMENDED BY
MINISTER OF JUSTICE.
STARTING 19100000
ENDING 19100000
REMARKS FROM MINISTERS (291). 4 AUG. 1910.

Private User
8/25/2021 at 1:20 AM

Sentence suspended or remission -- possibly a fight in a bar or such thing .
Now know in SA 1910 !

8/25/2021 at 1:21 AM

Hi Private User, thanks for your reply, question at this source mentioned some facts about his grave those above informations in database, could you please share, or free add (update) full in About section of his profile with all details.

tried but not sure did I searching and looking on correct way. Thanks for share and showing a source, and direction.

After when I click at SAB -National Archives Repository (Public Records of Central Government since 1910) ( http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300gi?2021082510...)

-> http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300gi?2021082510...

KR, Ozren

Private User
8/25/2021 at 1:23 AM

Sorry should have said more to explain.

DEPOT SAB means it is found in the National Archives Repository (Public Records of Central Government since 1910)

I believe "SOURCE GG" - means the source is records of the Governor General

Private User
8/25/2021 at 1:26 AM

The place the info is sourced from is an index to the physical file held at the archives, so it only shows the little bit of information shown above. The reference numbers there are used to go to the actual archives in person and request to view the document.

Private User
8/25/2021 at 1:29 AM

As Phillipp Weyers had said the online version of the cemetery hosted at EGGSA (which I linked to in the profile) doesn't show his grave but the cemetery is not fully photographed and he may have been cremated with no grave.

Private User
8/25/2021 at 1:54 AM

Braamfontein cemetery a complete mess these days .
Overgrown and records of actual graves is gone !
When you go to Office in person take a chair and some food and drink !
Long wait -------
what Collic? Koeliek ? Shoe Lek ? what ? Expect the unexpected !

Private User
8/25/2021 at 1:58 AM

My family buried in 'non-white ' cemeteries nowhere on eGGSA !

Private User
8/25/2021 at 2:03 AM

I don't think he had an estate or probate record which sometimes shows the family. I looked on NAAIRS and the scan of typed indexes to Transvaal estates 1911 - 1958 ( https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS92-C32V-L?i=385&... ). It doesn't mean it doesn't exist though.

8/25/2021 at 2:13 AM

Phillip and Shaun thx for previous informations, again; note I'm not able to go visit and travel to SA, especially today now when a Covid situation.

Maybe someone, who living today there, can be able to see for grave and burial date, but thanks for direction, also I willwrite and ask to NASA archive by email, for details. Hope they will give a more informations, if they able to give. But also in meantime every others, if someone have informations, can send, in advance really I will be appreciated for that.

Private User
8/25/2021 at 2:28 AM

With COVID a lot of these type of places like the archives have closed. The archives might put you in touch with a professional researcher who goes to the archives and requests documents on behalf of people like yourself that cannot get there in person. See here:
http://www.national.archives.gov.za/NARS%20DMLIB%208372%20March%202...

Private User
8/25/2021 at 5:08 AM

Ozren Čulić Viskota Žava if you go the the eGGSA.com home page, you will find a section that puts you in touch with the researchers who photographes photo's.

Alternatively you could e-mail our correspondend Annelie Els for assistance.
annelie@who-els.co.za.

You are welcome to tell her I (Judi Meyer) gave the info to you. She works in the Transvaal Archive, but will direct you to the other archive photographers.

Stay safe.

Judi

8/25/2021 at 5:42 AM

Private User thanks a lot for inform and share a information with a contacts at pdf. I really and truely appreciate to all, for help and locate a record and informations. Who knows, maybe in the future be a more additional informations (for now unknown informations).

A few questions are still open (for now):

  • When he was exactly migrated (in Croatia, Split doesn't exist a evidence), by which ship (name?), from a which departure port (maybe from Croatia or in this time from a Austria: Trieste or Fiume (Rijeka), or maybe from a middle dalmatian region as Zadar (Zara) or south-east coast of Croatia as from a Dubrovnik, Metkovic, Makarska, or maybe from a Montenegro (?), where before(*) maybe resident place at SA or other place in Africa, before and when he migrated to down. (at 1899 or between 1900-1910) (*before= means before when he came at Africa and Johannesburg)
  • Maybe his name exist at list of employes (passengers who arrived by the ship), as Gold miner, for which company he worked at 1910 -1914.
  • Did he had maybe a wife (girlfriend), they were not married, and with her a possible had a ilegimitate childrens (?) (unconfirmed)
  • Burial / grave - Status of Burial: Buried or Cremated - did he was normally buried or cremated. And does a grave exists today (maybe) (?)
  • What exactly happened, when a Sentence suspended or remission, was mentioned, for what Remission Recommended by Minister of Justice at SA.
  • etc...

Researching is a like "archeology", "like a looking for a needle in a haystack".

8/25/2021 at 5:51 AM

Hi Private User, thanks a lot for direction and contacts. I really appreciate a yours help, directions and from a other fellow SA curators and users.

Also for all Stay safe and All best wishes, from a Split, Croatia

KR,

Ozren

Private User
8/25/2021 at 9:26 AM

On civil death notice he is listed as single.
Residence at time of death
13 th Sinclair Street.
Jeppe 's Reef
Johannesburg

Intended burial Braamfontein Cemetery.

Gold Mines 1914 Johannesburg a lot if those Mining Companies do not exist anymore.

8/25/2021 at 10:19 AM

Thx Private User for explanation, I saw it, who knows maybe he had some a woman (girlfriend) but not mentioned. In some cases lots of them had a girlfriends (wifes) but there were not married and had ilegimitate childrens, how I said cannot be comfirmed for him and his case, but I believe a exists (existed before at this period) lots of other same or similar cases (in every part, countries, places of World).

In that cases, mostly males didn't accept a childrens as their biological (although they was biological fathers), whatever reason was been or how they were maybe and why decide.

So childrens in that cases had only a mother birth surname. How I'm not deeply informed, and do not have a complete view of relations between citizens insight of Africa trought before a time periods (like a this), I can't tell more, only I can think, on logical way and to assume some facts what can be maybe a true or not. But a archival documents shows to us some facts (written facts), but not a facts from a real life in that time.

E.g. In this case of his record of death written only date of death, but not a date of his birth, in some records of death you have a both, or based on the year what a person had in time when was died you can cca (estimated) when the person was born ,but in lots of cases is not a exact, it is most usually near years when a person exact was born in birthplace; also a birthplace: written state Austria, not mentioned a town with Austria., etc.. (Yes I know a Croatia and other places in Europe was part of Austria-Hungary Empire).

Private User
8/25/2021 at 11:16 AM

Myself a descendant of many children born from unmarried parents and even children men had with their slaves.
They owned their own children as slaves.

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