Johann Melchior Brombach - Getting the correct Johann Melchior Brombach

Barbara Price, A509195

First of all, where is the record showing the name of the 1714 Immigrant as Johann Melchior Brombach? We don't have his birth/baptism record, although the Muesen church records have been searched many times by me and other researchers. I've found two records for Melchior Brombach while researcing in the Siegen Archives, both in regards to fines levied on his family for leaving without selling his property, so there are taxes that had to be paid. In both documents, one for Johannes Brombach (Melchior's brother) dated 11 Dec 1713 and the second for Caspar Brombach (Melchior's brother) dated 4 Dec 1713, his name is Melchor Brombach, never Johann Melchior Brombach. Until we find a baptismal record, his name should probably be listed as Melchior Brombach and not Johann Melchior Brombach as we have no proof that is his name.

The Johann Melchior Brombach with birthdate of 1695 has no basis/proof for that birthdate. There is a Melchior Brombach b. 2 Sep 1695, the son of Johann Georg Brombach and Anna Barbara Wurmbach Merten, but this child died on 9 Dec 1697.

This couple, Johann Georg Brombach and Anna Barbara Wurmbach Merten, also had another child named Johann Melchior christened the 2nd day after Pentecost 1705 and he died on 8 Aug 1708. It was not uncommon to have two children with the same name during this time!

The Johann Melchior Brombach that was born in 1704 is the son of Johannes Brombach and Anna Margareta Kemper and is the brother of the 1714 Immigrant, Melchior Brombach. Dr. Holtzclaw in Germanna Record No. 5, pg. 53, surmises that this Johann Melchior Brombach may be the 1754 Immigrant to Philadelphia in the Brumbaugh Genealogy.

Hope this helps put it all together and straighten out the parents and wish we could find Melchior's birth/baptism record!

Sources for this information:

Dr. BC Holtzclaw, Germanna Record No. 5: Ancestry and Descendants of the Nassau-Siegen Immigrants to Virginia 1714-1750, (Culpeper, Virginia: The Memorial Foundation of the Germanna Colonies in Virginia, Inc., 1964)52-54.

Furstentum Siegen Landesarchiv 11 No. 28, 149

Barbara Price, Trustee/Genealogist
The Germanna Foundation

Thank you Barbara.
I agreed with Cynthia, that opening a discussion on this was probably the best way to let others know some of what is out there.
I also see that Geni says we are eighth cousins, glad to meet you.

I'm glad to meet you, too, Roger! I've been lucky enough to visit the Siegerland many, many times and look through the church books in the various villages and conduct research in the Siegen Archives looking for any information about our ancestors.

Barb Price

From all that I have seen Barbara Price is right on the money on all account. I have recently examined the Muesen church records myself and find that while Johannes Brombach and Anna Margaretha Kemper married in 1682, baptismal records for their sons, Johannes, Melchior and Casper do not appear in the existing church records. That they also had a son Johann Melchior is not uncommon, since he was a much younger child than his older brother, Melchior.

However, I have also wondered if the Melchior Brombach, whose brothers Johannes and Casper petitioned to be exempt from paying a tax on him because he 'had gone to the Island of Carolina", might be the Melchior born in 1664, son of Jost, who had a son, Johannes born in 1653 and a son Casper, born in 1655? Since no baptism exists for any, Melchior, Casper and Johannes, sons of Johannes and Margaretha and there is no records of them in Confirmation records or later marriage records at Muesen, maybe Johannes and Margaretha did not have sons, Melchior, Casper and Johannes! Could Melchior of Germanna actually have been fifty years old when he married Elisabetha Fischbach and settled in Virginia? What do you think Barbara!

PS.
Johann Melchior, born, Sept 1695, son of Johann Georg and Anna Barbara, was sponsored at baptism, by "Melchior Brombach, nach Jungergesell". [ Melchior Brombach, still single fellow'} the only Melchior in that time frame is Melchior, son of Jost, born 1664.

I am still going through the Muesen church records Baptisms, 1649-1764 and Confirmations, 1660-1772. at archion.de. and am becoming convinced that Melchior Brumbach of Germanna was in fact, son of Jost and Catherina, born 15 May 1664. Here is my evidence:
Melchior Brombach, confirmed, Muesen, Christmas, 1677 (no other Melchior Brumbach is baptized or confirmed until Johann Melchior, son of Joh. Georg is born and baptized in 1695.
At that time, this Johann Melchior was sponsored at baptism by "Johann Melchior Brombach,(see post above).
In May, 1704, Johann Melchior, son of Johannes and Margaretha is sponsored by Melchior Brombach aus Muesen noch ledige gesell ("still a single fellow). This can be no other than Johannes's brother, born in 1664.
In March 1707, "Melchior Brombach aus Muesen, noch ledige gesell" sponsored a son of Friedrich Hoffer at Muesen.
This is the last reference to him I can find.
I find absolutely no evidence that Johannes and Margaretha had sons, Casper or Melchior. There is no baptisms or confirmation for them. Between 1696 and 1714, only eight Brumbach children were confirmed. This included Johannes and Margaretha's daughter Catherina Easter, 1698, their son, Jost Heinrich, Easter 1709.
Holtzklaw did some amazing work and I consider his analysis to be outstanding, so how could he have made the assumption that Johannes and Margaretha had sons Casper and Melchior?
I think it is because he was assuming that Melchior of Germanna was a young man! When Margaretha, widow of Johannes, petitioned to be relieved of the tax burden, in 1713,he assumed she was the mother, of Melchior, but the record does not say she was the mother. It only says widow of Johannes, It seems clear now that the civil authorities were trying to collect Melchior's taxes from his brother and widowed sister -in-law, who were of course nearest relatives of Melchior.

If there is not a profile for the person/couple mentioned, someone should add them to Geni and put their info there as well

There is the mp for Melchior Brombach and this one; Melchior Brombach

The record involving Margareta (Kemper) Brombach and fines levied against her that were involving Melchior Brombach on 2 Jul 1714, also located in the Landesarchiv, p. 200, also state Melchior Brombach's name, not just that Margareta is the widow of Johannes:

On July 2, 1714 Margareta, widow of Johannes Brumbach of Muesen, petitioned for relief from a fine of 7 1/2 Reichstaler 3 1/2 Albus, levied on Melchior Brumbach of Muesen, who had "gone to foreign parts" (ausserland)."

It seems to me that the evidence that Holtzclaw used to determine the parents and several siblings of Melchior Brombach, the 1 714 Immigrant, were the fines levied on members of Melchior's family, i.e., his brothers, Caspar and Johannes, and his mother, Margareta. If they were not related to Melchior in a close manner, they would not have been brought to court to pay fines for Melchior. I will speak to some of my contacts in the Siegerland and ask about levies and fines brought against members of families and how close that relation would have to be to incur a fine. We shall see! And, of course, continue to search all available records!

Barbara Price, Trustee/Genealogist
The Germanna Foundation

I do also appreciate the age factor that you brought up, Roger, so also consider the age of Melchior Brombach if he is, as you propose, born in 1664. If Melchior is the Melchior born in 1664, he would be 50 years old upon arrival in Virginia in 1714 as he stated in his Importation Statement that he made at the Spotsylvania Co., Virginia courthouse on 1 Jun 1724 and by 1724, he would be 60 years old, then 65 years old when the court registered the Importation Statements. He would have married, probably Maria Elisabeth Fischbach (b. 1687), circa 1715-1718, all of their children born between 1718-1722, so Melchior would be in his 50's and close to 60 at the birth of his children. Unfortunately, we don't have actual birth records for any of their children, all daughters, only later land records indicating that Melchior and his wife had died by 28 Jul 1746 when the Brombach land at Germantown was deeded to Agnes (Brombach) and Henry Utterback, her husband, by the brothers in law of Agnes. This would put Melchior's age at around 81 years old in 1741-1745, an estimate of thedeath date for Melchior as we don't have a record of that either!

We'll keep searching for records, any records, that shed more light on Melchior Brombach, both in Germany and in Virginia. For the time being, I will stick to the BC Holtzclaw hypothesis based on the evidence he has presented and which I have reviewed which includes the levies placed on Margareta, Johannes and Caspar Brombach, the mother and brothers of Melchior.

Barbara Price, Trustee/Genealogist
The Germanna Foundation

Getting the correct Melchior Brombach / Brumbach, is not a matter of missing records. It is a problem of misinterpreting the existing records. Does the civil record regarding Margaretha actually say she is Melchior's mother? If she were it would seem to me that the term 'Mother" or Son" would be somewhere in the document. If the mother was living, why would they first try to collect from his brother? Holtzclaw does assumes she is the mother, but so far there is absolutely no evidence in any records, including the confirmation records, that Johannes and Margaretha had sons, Casper and Melchior. I know it seems rather improbable that Melchior could have been about fifty years old, when he married and came to Virginia, and so it is understandable why Holtzclaw concluded that he had to be a young man. As for the tax levy, if Melchior had no wife or child, then his nearest surviving relatives were siblings at Muesen, That included Casper and Johannes (deceased). It would be logical to assume they would try to collect even from the widow of a brother,.

Johannes Brombach died in April 1714, yet Casper, brother of Melchior was asked to pay taxes owed by Melchior in 1713 or earlier. That makes no sense if Melchior's father was still living!!
It is likely that Johannes, the oldest brother, was also asked and that would explain why Margaretha his widow, petitioned to be relieved as well, shortly after he died.

Barbara, you have apparently seen the civil record that Holtzclaw refers to.
Did the December petition by Casper which he mentions on p. 49, also contain Johannes, "brother of Melchior" as stated by Holtzclaw on p. 56.? If so that is very important because Johannes died in April 1714 and that would explain, why Margaretha, widow, of Johannes would petition for relief, and does her petition say that she is the mother of Melchior or that he is her son?
I can find confirmations and other records for the children of Johannes and Margaretha, for whom there are baptismal records, but I can find absolutely no evidence of sons, Casper, Melchior or Johannes as proposed by Holtzclaw.. The only adult men of those names in the church records at Muesen in the first 14 years of the 1700s were the sons of Jost and Catherina.

I apologize for not replying sooner, I was having major computer problems with the battery both external and internal, a nightmare!

I look into your information thoroughly, Daniel Bly, and I thank you very much. I do also have a German contact reviewing the documents for any and all clues as to the parentage of Caspar, Melchior and Johannes.

And, also conducting more research of my own. Thanks, again, and as soon as I have the review and translation of the docs, I'll get back to all ofyou.

Thanks, again!

Barb Price

I would like to reduce the confusion if possible, the 1664 date seems to be too early.

Thank you Barbara, That would be most helpful!

Barbara,
Do you have an email address where I can send you an attachment?
Mine is dwbly12@aol.com

NUMBERS DON'T LIE
That is a old saying that still holds true: We now have the answer and we owe that to Barbara, who had copies and translations of the 1713 documents regarding his two brothers, Caspar and Johannes and the numbers tell the story!!
The document from Johannes indicates that he should pay 15 Reichsthalers and 7 Albus, to cover debts owed by his brother Melchior, but due to his petition objecting the court said they would dismiss half if he paid the ohter half of 7 and half Reichthalers and 3 and a half Albus immediately. Johannes died in April 1714, (four months later) and had not paid so they dunned his widow, Margaretha who then asked that it be forgiven, in July 1714. This proves that Margaretha, wife and widow of Johannes was not the mother of Melchior but the widow of his brother Johannes. Holtzclaw did not have all the information to make that conclusion, but the 7 and half Reichthalers an 3 and half Albus proved the point!!

Barbara Price, A509195, he is my 7th great grandfather.
Is his profile as correct as can be?

No, it's not sorted out for certain. I'm waiting for two of my contacts in Siegen to go to the Siegen Archives and retrieve the Tax records from Muesen and the document regarding Margaretha Brombach and the fines levied against her. I want to see the actual documents so they can be translated and, hopefully, they give us more information as to the relationships.

Barb Price

Barbara Price, A509195 I am on the edge of m seat! lol
Thank you so much. These ancestors mean so much to me but the Germanna folks are at the top of that list because we know so much and are so fortunate to be able to have so much information about them.
I am a huge fan of the idea of stewardship and these profiles fall into that category for me