Mitchell and Dawn Siegel DNA Connections

Mitchell wrote:

"I am not interested in your comment. I am interested in DNA evidence and GedMatch MRCA.

I don't understand why Why not you upload into GedMatch for Stephen Bloom"

This *is* DNA evidence.

It is DNA evidence that is consistent with a tree showing that the most recent common ancestors (MCRA) of my mother and Stephen Bloom are Yosef Colitz and his wife. Their shared DNA is a little on the low side, but not out of range.

The lack of match in Ancestry is also DNA evidence that you and my mom are not closely related. This is what we expected. We didn't have any reason to think you were closely related, since my mom is (blood-)related to the Colitz side of the family, not the Bloom side.

As to why i didn't "upload into GEDMatch for Stephen Bloom", I've told you: these are my mother's results, not my own, and I am not authorized to upload them to GEDMatch. Since Stephen Bloom tested with Ancestry, I was able to compare his DNA with my mom's using Ancestry's tools, and that is sufficient for this purpose.

I am interested in your matches to other DNA-tested descendants of the Bloom and Rosenberg families.

So far, we have not found any documentary evidence linking Herzl Bloom to the Rozaitsky/Rosenberg[/Bloom?] families (and you don't trust the documents anyway), so we need clear DNA evidence to make that link.

Do you have other matches among the descendants of Jacob Yehuda Rosenberg (besides Jess and Leslie and Alex and Stephen Bloom, with whom you share 10cM)?

Please upload into GedMatch for your family. I am not interested in your comments NO Evidence.

I found Rollins family with GedMatch MRCA for Leslie and my wife. Where are your GedMatch?

I did not know your Stephen Bloom MRCA???????????????????????

David Walter Bloom had an affair with Rose Bloom in 1924 because of LESLIE and MARTHA - with my wife. My father was born in 1925. Jack Nachman was married with Rose Bloom Nachman in 1926.

Mitchell, since you don't have any questions that can be resolved by looking at my DNA (which, as I've stated before, I have never tested), my DNA is of no use to you. I would be curious to know whether we have any connection on the sides of our families from the PInsk area, but I'm not curious enough to upload another living person's DNA without their consent! And I don't have a need to test myself right now because it won't answer any burning questions for me. (Now, if I could get a certain male cousin to test his Y-DNA, that might be helpful!)

But I am trying to resolve questions related to the Rozaitsky/Rosenberg, Bloom, and (sorry to mention them!) Siegel families for which your matches would be valuable.

And I would like to help you clean up your tree so that it reflects reality (even if the documents are wrong and cannot be trusted). You yourself have said many times that your tree is full of errors because the documents are fraudulent and people have lied.

For both of these things, it would be helpful to know whether, and to what degree (how many cM/segments/segment size), you match with other descendants of Jacob Yehuda Rosenberg's family and Arye Abba Siegel's family.

Besides Stephen Bloom (and Jess, Leslie, and Alex), and there any other people believed to descend from Jacob Yehuda Rosenberg who have DNA results in GEDMatch, Ancestry, 23andMe or FTDNA who have tested, and what were their matches with you

Mitchell -- With regard to your comment: "I am not interested in your comments NO Evidence"
MRCA listed in Gedmatch is not Evidence. It is a suggestion based on an algorithm.

Gedmatch has a Chromosome Browser which can be used to see if for a given match one can demonstrate three profiles all share a common ancestor.
But you never make use of it.
https://dna-explained.com/2020/04/21/concepts-chromosome-browser-wh...
Is a good reference. It gives much info, including:

"Why Do I Need a Chromosome Browser?

“But,” you might say, “I don’t need to compare my DNA with my matches because the vendors already tell me that I match someone, which confirms that we are related and share a common ancestor.”

Well, not exactly. It’s not quite that straightforward.

Let’s take a look at:

How and why people match
What matches do and don’t tell you
Both with and without a chromosome browser
In part, whether you utilize a chromosome browser or not depends on which of the following you seek:

A broad-brush general answer; yes or no, I match someone, but either I don’t know how are related, or have to assume why. There’s that assume word again.
To actually confirm and prove your ancestry, getting every ounce of value out of your DNA test.
Not everyone’s goals are the same. Fortunately, we have an entire toolbox with a wide range of tools. Different tools are better suited for different tasks."

I disagree with you Siegel family are related to my mom K1a1b1a for Jacob Siegel NOT my YDNA lineage. NO connection for 278,000 profiles in 4 years. JOKE! Jacob Siegel used my father's SIEGEL LINEAGE because he did not have a boy.

Debbie Rose (Siegel) in Toronto Canada and I filled up with your SIEGEL on the World Tree on Ancestry, MyHeritage, Geni and others. We met with her in 2018.

Mitchell, about 1 in ever 5 Ashkenazi Jewish maternal lineages is K1a1b1a. My dad's mtDNA is also K1a1b1a. It doesn't necessarily mean we are closely related. It also doesn't imply that your mother is closely related to the Siegels (other than through marrying your father). It just means that thousands of years ago we all had a common maternal ancestor, on one branch of our family out of many.

Now, I am not arguing that Jacob Siegel was necessarily your direct ancestor, either. It's true that there was pressure to have a son to carry on the family name. It's true that there's a 20-year age gap between Rose and Herbert. Etc.

It would be helpful to have Y-DNA evidence to support your claim that your father's father was David Walter Bloom. Do we know if there are male-line descendants of Herzl Bloom who could test to help support your claims? How about male-line descendants of Jacob Yehuda Rosenberg? Does your Y-DNA match that of Stephen Bloom (if he's done a Y-DNA test)?

It would also be helpful to identify other descendants of Arye Abba Siegel so that you can identify any you match or don't match. If you don't even know who they are, you can't rule out that there are matches. So that's why tracing this family -- even and perhaps especially if you believe you're not blood-related! -- would be useful to you.

I disagree with Siegel people. My Siegel family are related to my mom K1a1b1a for Jacob Siegel - Abraham Jacob Siegel - Levin - Levi family. I am NOT my YDNA lineage. NO connection for 278,000 profiles in 4 years. JOKE! Jacob Siegel used my father's SIEGEL LINEAGE because he did not have a boy.

Debbie Rose (Siegel) in Toronto Canada and I filled up with your SIEGEL people on the World Tree on Ancestry, MyHeritage, Geni and others. We met with her in 2018.

I found Rollins Family with my wife, LESLIE for GedMatch MRCA. I am waiting for Martha's GedMatch since 3 weeks. I am related to Owens, Madsen, Jacobson, Rollins, and Smith. I'm NOT mormon.

I believe David Walter Bloom 45 years old (1% Portugal Crypto Jews) had an affair with Rose Bloom (Siegel) Nachman 19 years old in 1924. My father was born in 1925. Jack Nachman was married with Rose Bloom (Siegel) in 1926. I'm 1% Portugal and 3.9% Crypto Jews as North Africa.

My STEP great grandfather Jacob Siegel and my bio great grandmother Mary Bloom Siegel were adopted son Herbert Siegel because Jacob did not have a boy child and 4 girl children.

How do I find my father's original birth certificate in 1925?

You found at least one version of your father's birth certificate, dated within a couple of weeks of the birth, right? (I know you said it was torn, and obviously shows Jacob and Mary as his parents, and you believe it to be fraudulent.)

If it was forged / Rose lied or gave a false name / the parents' names were intentionally listed incorrectly at the time, then there probably would be no original record with his true biological parents on it. Concealing the father's name would have been easy to do. Concealing the mother's name would probably have been a little trickier, but doable, especially if the birth wasn't in a hospital. Does the version you have state where the birth occurred?

But again, if you don't trust documents, then it's that much more important to be sure you are leaving no stone unturned with the DNA. Lois gave some good advice above for comparing not only quantity but shared segments of DNA with your matches.

Can you clarify again? -- You said that Jacob had 4 girl children and wanted (but couldn't have) a son. But you've also said that Rose wasn't really his bio-daughter. Do you believe that Jacob had any biological children at all? (If so, who?)

The only mention of a child to Jacob and Rose in Rudolph's book is a female who had polio at age 2. Wore braces her whole life. She became a lawyer. No name or date but it must have been in the 1920's.

Another reference is to Jack and Rose dating in the summer of 1925. No mention of David ecept that he was in Tuscon. Rudy's family was visiting "aunt Mary" in Manhattan.

Lisa, please tell Mike Stangel about 29 Living men who could be tested for my YDNA bio grandfather David Walter Bloom to see if matches from Stephen Bloom.

I told you many times about my father's birth certificate FRAUD. My wife and I are very sharp eagle eye. My Arizona Genealogist said that's interesting, but could it just have torn and wasn't taped exactly lined up.

Jacob Siegel's 4 girls:
Rose was born in 1905
Frances was born in 1908
Helen was born in 1912
Bella was born in 1918

I believe Jacob Siegel wants to have a boy (YDNA Siegel lineage). Jacob Siegel used my father's boy YDNA Siegel lineage. No Connection in 4 years. This does not make sense.

Jacob and Mary knew David Walter Bloom who have his 3 boys.

David Walter Bloom:
Herbert Ferrin Bloom was born in 1914 - Ashley Leah's father (1% Portugal)
David Arthur Bloom was born in 1916
Therese Harriet Bloom was born in 1918
Theodore David Bloom was born in 1921
Claire Elaines Aarons 1923

My father Herbert Siegel was born in 1925. (No Middle name). see H - Herbert and A - Arthur
my mom wrote my great grandfather "Arthur". T - Therese and Theodore over Therese Hirsch in Germany.

Claire Elaines Aarons 1923 - Emily Aarons (1% Portugal)

Jess Lacher, Leslie, Ronald Siegel, Alexander Nachman (0% Portugal)

I found Bloom living men on Ancestry.

Mitchell Bloom 4th cousin <1% 20cM 4 segments - Cesar Harry Bloom, Irwin Bloom, Jacob Bloom /My tree - David K Bloom and Freida Bloom

Stephen Bloom 4th cousin <1% shared DNA 20cM 9 segments - No tree

Kenneth Bloom 4th cousin <1% shared DNA 20cM 3 segments Joseph Bloom / my Tree - David W Bloom and Freida Bloom

Jeremy Bloom 4th cousin <1% shared DNA 25cM 5 segments - Bernard Bloom, David bloom, Nathan Bloom and Neville Bloom / My tree - David W Bloom and Freida Bloom

The only mention of a child to Jacob and Rose in Rudolph's book is a female who had polio at age 2. Wore braces her whole life. She became a lawyer. No name or date but it must have been in the 1920's.

Frances Sheer had no children from Rose Nachman and Jack Nachman

I found people who match both kits via GedMatch for Leslie and Denise from my wife's GedMatch.

Leslie are related to Levinsky families from Poland and Russia.

"Frances Sheer had no children from Rose Nachman and Jack Nachman" Huh?

I think Mitchell meant that Private , daughter of Rose and Jack Nachman, had no children. She's probably the lawyer who had had polio. Is that correct, Mitchell?

YES. Ann Nachman AND ROSE NACHMAN ARE INCEST of Jess Lacher and Leslie INCEST COUSINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Private User
You have said elsewhere "I am related to my 2nd great grandfather Raphel Kamm by 3 DNA matches" and "DNA EVIDENCE BY THREE DNA MATCHES on Ancestry WITH FREIDA KAMM, RAPHEL KAMM AND MY 3RD GREAT GRANDFATHER and 4RD GREAT GRANDMOTHER"

FREIDA KAMM, RAPHEL KAMM, and your 3rd and 4th great grandmother never had their DNA Tested.
Which three (3) DNA matches on Ancestry do you feel proves this relationship?

Please, for each give: their name as it appears to you on Ancestry, the direct line on THEIR Tree on Ancestry that connects them to Freida and Raphael Kamm, how many cM they share with you, the longest segment they share, and Ancestry's estimated relationship.
Also, if you know it, a link to their profile on Geni.

I did not discuss with you. I already submitted it to Mike Stangel for my Family DNA matches Tree.

Mitchell - You told me "I am not blood relative of Freida Kamm Bloom on my tree. INCORRECT. THIS SHOULD BE FREIDA KAMM BLOOM IN BLUE BLOOD RELATIVE. You fix it up back normal."

First you need to convince me you are related to Frieda Kamm. Telling me you "already submitted it to Mike Stangel" is not how to convince me.

Which three (3) DNA matches on Ancestry do you feel proves this relationship?
For each give: their name as it appears to you on Ancestry, the direct line on THEIR Tree on Ancestry that connects them to Freida and Raphael Kamm, how many cM they share with you, the longest segment they share, and Ancestry's estimated relationship.
Also, if you know it, a link to their profile on Geni.

Where are Martha's GedMatch? You did not help Martha's GedMatch. You are waste my time.

My wife's haplogroup is H1af. Leslie's haplogroup is H1o. How about Martha's GedMatch?

Leslie's GedMatch are related to my wife's 18 DNA GedMatch.

I have not followed this thread. I have, however, had contact with Mitchell. Everything I have been shown, by Mitchell, appears, to me, to make sense. I did share my GEDMatch number with Mitchell, for him to dig into my DNA, as I can't work the GEDMatch site, it's too confusing, the new version and I've not familiarized myself. Mitchell is right, I do relate to Jacobson, same woman Dawn is related to. Is it by coincidence, that somewhere along the line I relate to her or is someone in my family adopted? I truly have no clue, about myself. I appear to relate to my mother's side as expected.. However, can't get anywhere with my Green side. So something is amiss. I think Mitchell IS on to something. I need a REALLY good (Professional) genealogist to help me. Linda