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Sigebert III, King of Austrasia - Berswinde

Started by Private User on Wednesday, November 15, 2023
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Why is Berswinde Berswinde d'Austrasie not connected to her father Sigerbert despite of him being mentioned as her father on several profiles here and Mechtilde, her mother also being the mother of his 2 other children and being married to him? I don't see any reason in this. Is there something to prove she was somehow not his child or that Mechtilde would have had other marriages or chidren with other men? I don't see this very probable and having the profiles like this makes very little to no sense.

Sigebert III, King of Austrasia is my fourth cousin 43 times removed.
Berswinde d'Austrasie is my 34th great grandmother.

I hope that you will get a satisfying answer from an expert. Berswinde is my direct ancestor too, so I'm also interested.

Yes I hope so too, but nobody withing the power to do something about it looks interested in replying.

Eticho I Adalric. He married Berswinda, a relative of Leodegar, the famous Bishop of Autun,
c.655
six children
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adalrich,_Duke_of_Alsace#Civil_war_of...

Saint Léger, bishop of Autun

Berswinde d'Austrasie

All we know is that she was a relative to Leodegar, now this relationship goes via her assumed mother, Emnechilde, his sister. Who knows, she could have been related on his fathers side?

I meant her brother,
Didon, bishop of Poitiers

Berswinde also have a son with that name.

Adalrich I (Eticho), duke of Alsace

Married to Berswinde d'Austrasie has no parents.

Amalgar was married to Aquilina,[6] the daughter of Waldelenus, a duke from Upper Burgundy. With this connection, the two most powerful families of Burgundy united - in particular the side of the Waldelenus rose over the course of the following two centuries as a clan of the Waltriche to one of the most influential families in the Frankish Empire.

From the marriage came the two sons: Adalrich, who succeeded his father as duke, and Waldelenus, who was taught in the Luxeuil abbey of Columbanus and then worked as abbot of the family monastery of Saint-Pierre, as well as the daughter Adalsind, who became an abbess in Brégille.[7]

The grandson of Amalgar, Adalrich's son *Eticho, was a duke in Alsace, father of St. Odilia[8] and ancestor of the noble family, the Etichonids, to which later dynasties, for example the Habsburgs, trace their origin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalgar#Legacy

* Adalrich, Duke of Alsace

Private User - that was a tree error, not a genealogy issue. I moved Berswinde d'Austrasie to daughter of both Adalrich I (Eticho), duke of Alsace & Sigebert III, King of Austrasia through the relationship tab.

Thank you for calling attention.

Thank you Erica Howton , I was wondering about the cause but couldn't do anything about it myself despite of trying to find ways. Have nice day and thanks again :)

Oh dear - I’m afraid we need more research on her parentage.

We use as source, Cawley’s Medlands.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/MEROVINGIANS.htm#SigebertIdied575B

And he lists only two children for SIGEBERT III King of the Franks.

m CHIMNECHILDIS [Himnilde/Emnehilde], daughter of --- (-676 or after).

King Sigebert III & his wife had [two] children:
a) DAGOBERT ([652/56]-murdered Woëvre forest 23 Dec 679, bur Stenay, basilique Saint-Rémi). …

b) [BILICHILDIS (-murdered forest of Lognes, near Chelles [18 Oct/10 Nov] 675, bur Paris, Saint-Germain-des-Prés).

I’m sorry to have been too hasty.

But no explanation about Mechtilde having other marriages separately...maybe they just didn't happen to mention the other children in that context? Happens quite a lot. Because if there is no proof of Mechtilde having been married to others or having children by other men then the only logical assumption is that Berswinde being her daughter is also the daughter of her only(?) mentioned husband? That is logical.

No, that’s not it. I’m working on gathering more citations, but it looks like the current thinking leans to Berswinde as a niece is Saint Leger d’Autun.

See the comments here:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Merovingian-102

According to this book: "Brucker, Pierre-Paul. L'Alsace et l'Eglise au temps du Pape Saint Léon IX (Bruno d'Eguisheim). Tome Premier. p299. Paris, France: Retaux-Bray, 1889", Berswinde was born circa 640. …

Berswinde married Etichon during the reign of Childeric II (660-673) and their daughter Sainte Odile was born circa 660. Brucker gives a good chronology in the book, and cites the chronicle of Ebersheim and a handwritten notice from the 9th century formerly preserved at the abbey of Saint-Grégoire, and which make Berswinde the niece of Saint Léger d'Autun (sister of Saint Léger was born circa 620 and Berswinde circa 640 or slightly after).

But...does it say niece on what side? Mother or father? Sorry I am probaböy too tired for research now, but I find this at least, maybe it will give hints where to lead. I don't see how other genealogy sites make good sources on their own... This was automatically translated by google:
"From the noble family and the Duchess (Hhenbourg 1.3.690?).

She was the mother of Saint Odile and the wife of Etionon, Duke of Alsace under Dagobert II and the maternal aunt of Saint Léger, Bishop of Autun. When Odile, a blind-born girl, came into the world, she secretly handed her over to a nurse who brought her to Baume-les-Dames, in a monastery, for the father wanted to destroy this child. With her husband, Bereswinde later participated in the founding of Ebersmunster Abbey and led a discreet and pious life, a more discreet life even more discreet after the death of her husband. It seems to have been venerated as a saint in Hohenburg and preserved relics of it were even exhibited in the 12th centurye. at Strasbourg Cathedral. This is a result, the Cantatorium of the Cantor of the Cathedral, a book which was not known until 1928. His relics have disappeared over the centuries. If no image of it is preserved, it is represented on the famous carpet of Saint Odile in Saint-Étienne in three scenes: during the birth and baptism of Saint Odile and on the death of Etipon. His stone sarcophagus was from 1617 to 1753 in the chapel of the Angels of Mount St. Odile; today he can be seen in the chapel of the Cross.

Cantatorium Argentinian , (v. Alpais) p. 97 f; Albrecht, History von Hohenburg oder St Odilienberg, 1751, p. 50-56; J. Gyss, Odilienberg, 164 ff (1874); Pfister, Duché (diction.) (s. Odilia), 52 ff, p. 81-85; Clauss, Die Heiligen im Elsass, Dusseldorf, 1935, p. 1. 45-46; M. Barth, Die heilige Odilia, 1938, see index finger p. 321."

https://www.alsace-histoire.org/netdba/bereswinde-berswinda-en-all/

Very helpful, and I think it’s in line with Cawley at Medlands.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKSMaiordomi.htm#BerswindaMAthicus

I’ve just quickly put together that tree. Didon, bishop of Poitiers Was the great uncle.

(This is all maternal,)

This you most probably already saw, but putting it here anyway:

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ALSACE.htm

Then I found this on my quicksearch just now, but yeah not much help in this issue it seems, interesting little read nonetheless:

https://dbpedia.org/page/Adalrich,_Duke_of_Alsace

There are a couple of children attached to Berswinde who are not listed. I am detaching as sisters:

Roswinda d'Alsace & Richbald d'Austrasie

Maybe they belong nearby.

Didon, bishop of Poitiers Was showing as Berswinde d'Austrasie son. It looks like he was her great uncle.
https://www.geni.com/path/Dido-Bishop-of-Poitou+is+related+to+Berswinde-d-Austrasie?from=6000000008248381441&path_type=blood&to=6000000007331691429

So now our question is whether Cawley’s Didon, bishop of Poitiers, which has no origins for him, is the same person as (so far unsourced) Didon, bishop of Poitiers

That would place Didon as niece of Didon, not great niece; and niece of Emnechilde of the Burgundians

Erica Howton
So now our question is whether Cawley’s Dido, Bishop of Poitou, which has no origins for him, is the same person as (so far unsourced) Didon, bishop of Poitiers

A simple search för "Bishop of Poitou" direct you to - Bishop of Poitiers

Dido (Desiderius) (c. 629–c. 669)
Ansoald (c. 677 – after 697)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Archdiocese_of_Poitier...

Ansoald the successor to Dido also claimed to be related by blood to Leodegar.
Saint Léger, bishop of Autun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansoald

Leodegar of Poitiers (Latin: Leodegarius; French: Léger; c. 615 – October 2, 679 AD) was a martyred Burgundian Bishop of Autun. He was the son of Saint Sigrada and the brother of Saint Warinus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leodegar

Saint Sigrade de Verdun has a brother, Dido. Didon, bishop of Poitiers and he is the uncle to ST. LEODEGARIUS

St. Sigrada was a sister of Didon, Bishop of Poitiers 656-670.

duplicates and I would like if you merge them and change the year of birth to.ca. 600
Didon, bishop of Poitiers
Didon, bishop of Poitiers

Dido, his uncle by the mother’s side Saint Sigrade de Verdun

Saint Léger, bishop of Autun

ST. LEODEGARIUS was born about the year 616, being of the first quality among the French. His parents brought him very young to the court of king Clotaire II. (son of Fredegonda) who reigned first in Neustria; but in the year 614, the thirty-first of his reign, having taken Sigebert prisoner, and put to death his mother Brunehault, became king of all France, in the same manner that his grandfather Clotaire had been. This prince kept the young nobleman but a short time at court before he sent him to Dido, his uncle by the mother’s side, bishop of Poitiers, who appointed a priest of great learning to instruct him in literature, and some years after took him into his own palace to finish his education himself.
https://www.bartleby.com/lit-hub/lives-of-the-saints/volume-x-octob...

Saint Sigrada
Sigrada of Alsace (French: Sigrade d'Alsace; died c. 679 AD) was a Franco-Burgundian countess and mother of Ss. Warin, and Leodegar, and grandmother of St. Leudwinus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sigrada

So this needs checking, please.

Berswinde d'Austrasie

Medlands is here:

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKSMaiordomi.htm#BerswindaMAthicus

She’s Dido’s niece by a sister. This sister of Dido had 3 children: St Leger, Warinus, and unknown daughter. The daughter is the mother of Berswinda & another woman.

If it’s the same sister of Dido for the three, she’s Saint Sigrade de Verdun

There is also a tree at https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimnechilde

I think it’s from Christian Settipani but I’m not sure. The chart is attached to profiles here:

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000200560854881

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