Thieves, Plunderers and Scottish Kings

Started by Erica "the Disconnectrix" Howton on Saturday, October 23, 2010


Profiles Mentioned:

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10/23/2010 at 8:35 PM

New project is open for business:

I descend both from "Border Reivers" and the House of Douglas, so I thought I'd try to understand better out how my ancestors got along ... or didn't.

Join on up and help me figure it out.

Private User
10/23/2010 at 9:37 PM

They were wild men (and women) on the border, Erica!! I watched Scottish Clans on TV...amazing some of those feuds. :))

10/23/2010 at 9:42 PM

I just drafted you, Lynne! You're now a Project Collaborator.

Can you post some "Scottish Clan" youtube or whatever links to the "Multimedia" section of the Project? I got lost in Child Ballads for a moment there ...

What section of this enormous project would you like to work on first? I think I'll start by continuing the Lord Boyd line cleanup, so maybe work on another section?

Ofir is going to work on the Royalty intersections.

Add profiles to the project!

10/23/2010 at 9:57 PM

I am also in

10/23/2010 at 9:59 PM

Thank you! I am very excited and I expect we'll knock off the project in a week or so. Just kidding.

10/23/2010 at 11:16 PM

So, Erica, you were really serious about having a "bad boy" project after all? :)

Private User
10/23/2010 at 11:58 PM

I noticed, Erica!! Glad to be taking part in it. :)) I shall find some of the Scottish Clans links. I've watched the series about three times now, and never get tired of it. :)) Wasn't the battle cry "A Douglas! A Douglas!"?!! :)) I have Douglas and Morton in my tree....I think I might get to work on this section and see what I can rake up on Clan Douglas. :)) "A Boyd! A Boyd!" they were the real bad boys, weren't they? Since they almost succeeded in filching the crown from their Stewart cousins?!! :))

10/24/2010 at 9:24 AM

Ben M. Angel, still catching up

In all seriousness, just like you started your family tree for your daughter, I started my family tree for my father.

My father told me about the Border Reivers as bedside stories. But it's geni- news to him that we were on the SCOTS side as well as the English.

Such a wild world!

I got the impression that the Reivers were kind of a mercenary force for the local gentry. In between attempts to bring down their Stewart cousin kings they would go a-reiving.

If I am interpreting history correctly (and I'm just getting started on this, so could be all kinds of wrong) the "border warden" gentry empowered by the Kings of England and Scotland looked the other way at "the Border riders" less savory activities, as they needed the firepower for the next coup attempt.

It took the unification of England and Scotland under the two James, lV and Vi, *and* the English army, to break the power of the Reivers ... and subsequently the House of Douglas and Angus as well (the direct lines died out in the 1700s).

And interestingly enough to an Australian in particular, I would think ... King James VI coped with the Border Reivers by shipping them off wholesale to the United States, Ireland and Australia.

In the US I read that Scotch-Irish made up for 90% of the "backwater" population, giving us our *own* brand of Reivers ... such as Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson ... and ultimately, the Outlaws of the Old West.

And now we're into the "movement of populations" you wanted to do a timeline on, Ben!

10/24/2010 at 9:27 AM


I added you to the "Thieves, Plunderers and Scottish Kings" project.

I also expect you to do a spin of into the Witches of North Berwick Project, as I have two or more ancestors directly involved it seems.

10/24/2010 at 10:33 AM

One of my family witches!

Janet Douglas, Lady Glamis

10/24/2010 at 3:38 PM

Wow... now I have enough projects to work on for until Albina finally heads off to college... in about 16 years. At least in a few more years, I'll have an assistant to help me. :)

Erica, I do appreciate the inclusion. If I can help out, I'll do my best. As to North Berwick, in addition to Dr. John Fian, I always had this gut feeling that Gilly Duncan was an interesting character. I'd be happy to help out on a North Berwick project...

10/24/2010 at 3:40 PM

King James VI? I think you mean King James I, if you are speaking south of the border... :)

10/24/2010 at 4:16 PM

I was speaking Scots! Go find their profiles and load to the project btw ... :)

10/24/2010 at 4:31 PM

Ah kin, Erica, ah kin... :) Had to pull your chain somehow...

10/24/2010 at 4:33 PM

BTW I cleaned up the Bloody Jackson's tree back to our common ancestor, Sir Anthony Hungerford. Left it messy from there for some reason.

10/24/2010 at 4:39 PM

Geez, Erica, just reading through your project description... it's like an encyclopedia on Scots.

One point though I'd mention... the US constitution was perhaps non-existent until 1789, but the United States existed as a confederation before that... and retroactively, it is regarded as existent since 4 July 1776. If we were to disregard the retroactive naming of the United States, then I could extend my holy war against the name Holy Roman Empire to the 12th century, instead of to 2 September 962. Just sayin'...

10/24/2010 at 4:43 PM

I knew that it was much earlier than 1789 too that the name was official... English Wikipedia page on the United States:

In 1507, German cartographer Martin Waldseemüller produced a world map on which he named the lands of the Western Hemisphere "America" after Italian explorer and cartographer Amerigo Vespucci.[12] The former British colonies first used the country's modern name in the Declaration of Independence, the "unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America" adopted by the "Representatives of the united States of America" on July 4, 1776.[13] On November 15, 1777, the Second Continental Congress adopted the Articles of Confederation, which states, "The Stile of this Confederacy shall be 'The United States of America.'" The Franco-American treaties of 1778 used "United States of North America", but from July 11, 1778, "United States of America" was used on the country's bills of exchange, and it has been the official name ever since.[14]

10/24/2010 at 4:47 PM

Haven't traced to Hungerford... haven't done much really at all with Andrew... his grandfather though is the accepted limit of his proven ancestry... I hesitate to do anything with the unprovens, as you end up with another lineage tracing through the Princess of Isenia to Gilgamesh or something...

Private User
12/20/2010 at 3:56 AM

Hi All,

Just to let you know that I haven't forgotten the project!! :)) I'm chasing down a few Boyds close to foxing out those elusive parents and extended family of Ann Boyd. In fact, I do believe that I've found her brother....married to a Caldwell. I must be the most inbred person on earth!! :))

12/20/2010 at 7:51 AM

Yay Lynne! Please keep us up to date.

We've found a new branch of American / Irish / Scots / English Cunninghams and they can see their way to the Boyds I'm sure!

Private User
12/20/2010 at 8:06 AM

I wish Geni could tell us all the ways (at least 4-5 different ways) that we are related to someone. There was a lot of inbreeding going on in Eastern Kentucky in late 1600's through 1700's. I am related to so many families that routinely intermarried. It would be interesting to see all the ways I'm related to someone.

Private User
12/20/2010 at 8:41 AM

Maria, I agree! Geni said they were working on that, but still hasn't happened. Also the most direct path does't show at times and paths show through a husband or partner even though there is a blood relation.

12/20/2010 at 10:55 AM

Inbreeding must have been going on in Ill. also in the 1700's and1800's as I have many repeats of Van Metres.

Private User
12/20/2010 at 3:08 PM

I got news for you there was a lot of in breeding, which wasn't illegal then, going on in Maine, N.H. And Me. at that time. There was a lot of inbreeding going on all over the world for centuries! I'm so cross bred that it's a wonder I know who I am and whens I came from!

12/20/2010 at 3:18 PM

LOL Judith and Milton!

Private User
12/20/2010 at 3:26 PM

No worries, Erica....I have stumbled upon a few Cunninghams along the way, who are mentioned in conjunction with the Boyds. It seems that they all found a way to keep warm during those long, dark, lonely Scottish nights!! :))

Giggling about the inbreeding........I'm very surprised to find that I have a chin, after researching my tree!! :))

12/20/2010 at 5:46 PM

So what I want to know is the juicy stuff. I mean besides the procreating. Just how treasonous how often? What witches, what trials, what holds in the Tower of London on which charges?

12/20/2010 at 6:10 PM

Erica - it appears that your orchestral preferences are coming out ... less sax and more violins...

Private User
12/21/2010 at 3:05 AM

Now, that's my kind of project, Erica!! :)) There was an Agnes Finnie...the last witch to be burnt in Scotland. My children think that I'm a reincarnation of her, I think!! :))

Private User
12/21/2010 at 3:06 AM

Ben, you nut..........nearly choked on my coffee reading that!! :))

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