Guillaume II Talvas, comte de Ponthieu

Guillaume II de Ponthieu

Un article de Wikipédia, l'encyclopédie libre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_IV,_Count_of_Ponthieu

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_II_de_Ponthieu

Guillaume II Talvas (après 1178 – 6 octobre 1221), fut comte de Ponthieu, baron du Saosnois.

Il était le fils du comte Jean Ier de Ponthieu. Il épousa Adèle de France, fille du roi Louis VII de France (v. 1100 - 1154) et de sa deuxième épouse Constance de Castille (1140 - 1160).

Adèle de France, après avoir été fiancée au prince Richard Cœur de Lion, fut abusée de nombreuses années par le roi d'Angleterre Henri II Plantagenêt, avant d'être rejetée. Après avoir tenté de la donner pour femme à Jean sans Terre, frère de Richard Cœur de Lion, le roi Philippe-Auguste la maria le 20 août 1195 à Guillaume Talvas. Elle lui apporta dans sa dot le comté d'Eu, le comté d'Arques et un prêt de 5000 marcs. Durant l'été 1210, il part combattre en Languedoc (Croisade des Albigeois) et participe au siège de Termes. Guillaume II commanda l'aile gauche de l'armée du roi Philippe Auguste lors de la bataille de Bouvines en 1214.

Adèle eut avec lui trois enfants :

1. Jean II († 1214), tué au combat (à Bouvines?).
2. Marie († 1250 ou 1251), qui épousa Simon de Dammartin († 1239), comte d'Aumale et de Dammartin, et hérita du comté de Ponthieu. En secondes noces, elle épousa Mathieu de Montmorency († 1250), seigneur d'Attichy.
3. Isabelle, abbesse d'Épagne.

GUILLAUME [II] "Talvas" de Ponthieu, (after 1178-6 Oct 1221, bur Abbaye de Valloires, Somme).

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#_Toc219106058

His parentage is confirmed by a charter dated Mar 1215 under which "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli" confirmed property rights of the church of Saint-Valéry granted by "Johannis comitis Pontivi patris mei et Beatricis matris mee et mea"[660]. He succeeded his father in 1191 as Comte de Ponthieu. "Will Talevas cuens de Pontieu" granted rights to Crècy, with the consent of "Guyon mon oncle", by charter dated 1194[661]. He played an important role in the war in Normandy, commanding troops at the battle of Bouvines 1204. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli" donated property to the church of Saint Giosse, with the consent of "Marie filie mee et Aelis uxoris mee", by charter dated 1205[662]. He was part of the army brought together at Lyon in Apr 1215 to march against the Albigeois. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monsteroli" confirmed rights granted to the abbey of Balances by "Johannes comes Pontivi pater meus" by charter dated 1214[663].

m (contract Mantes, Yvelines 20 Aug 1195) ALIX de France, daughter of LOUIS VII King of France & his [second wife Infanta doña Constanza de Castilla] ([4 Oct] 1160-after Jan 1213). Robert of Torigny records the death in 1160 of "Constantia regina Franciæ" while giving birth to a daughter[664]. She is named Adelaide by Kerrebrouck[665], but he cites no primary source on which this is based. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "reginam Margaretam Anglie et comitissam Aaliz" as children of King Louis VII & his second wife, specifying that Alix married "Guilelmus comes de Pontivo"[666]. The De Rebus Hispaniæ of Rodericus Ximenes names "Adelodis" as the daughter of "Ludovico Regi Francorum" and his wife "Elisabeth" (error for Constantia), specifying that she married "Comitis de Pontivo"[667]. There is some confusion between this daughter and King Louis VII's supposed daughter Alix by his third wife. Roger of Hoveden records that the betrothal of King Louis's daughter to Richard of England was first proposed in 1161, when Richard's older brother Henry was betrothed to her sister Marguerite[668]. Chronologically, this can only refer to the king's daughter by his second marriage. This appears to be confirmed by the Chronicle of Gervase which records the betrothal in 1169 of "Ricardus…filius regis Anglæ" and "filiam regis Franciæ quam habuit de filia regis Hispanorum"[669]. Ctss de Bourges 1174, as her dowry. Benedict of Peterborough records the betrothal "XI Kal Oct 1177" of "rex Anglie…Ricardus comes Pictaviæ filius eius" and "regi Franciæ…filiam" as part of the peace agreement between the two kings[670]. It is assumed that this refers to the same daughter, although the primary source which confirms this beyond doubt has not yet been identified. If this is correct, she was presumably the same daughter who later married the Comte de Ponthieu. Until further information comes to light, it is assumed that Alix/Adelaide who was betrothed to Richard, and who later married the Comte de Ponthieu, was the daughter who was born in 1160, and that King Louis had no daughter of this name by his third marriage. Alix was brought up in England after her betrothal. Benedict of Peterborough records that the betrothal of "Alesia soror eius [Philippi regis Franciæ]" and Richard was renewed in 1189, commenting that the king of England "in custodia habet"[671]. Richard refused the marriage after his accession to the throne. Kerrebrouck states that King Richard arranged her betrothal to his younger brother John in early 1193[672], but the primary source which confirms this has not yet been identified. She returned to France in Aug 1195. Ctss d'Eu, Dame d’Arques in 1195, as her dowry for her marriage. "Willelmus comes Pontivi" granted rights to the commune of Marquienneterre, with the consent of "uxoris mee Aalidis filie Ludovici regis Francie", by charter dated 1199[673]. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli" donated property to the church of Saint Giosse, with the consent of "Marie filie mee et Aelis uxoris mee", by charter dated 1205[674]. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli…et Aalais uxor mea comitissa Pontivi et Maria filia mea" granted concessions by charter dated 1207[675]. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli" granted rights to one of his vassals, with the consent of "Aalis, uxoris mee Ludovici regis filie et Marie filie mee", by charter dated Aug 1208[676]. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli" granted rights to the commune of Maioc, with the consent of "Aalis, uxoris mee et Symonis de Bolonia, generis mei, et Marie filie mee, uxoris eius", by charter dated 1209[677]. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli" granted rights to the nuns of Moreaucourt, for his soul and that of "Aelidis, uxoris mee, filie Ludovici regis Francie", by charter dated Dec 1209[678]. "Willaume comte de Pontieu et de Montreuil" agreed a concession made by one of his vassals, with the consent of "Aalis sa femme et de Marie leur fille" by charter dated Nov 1211[679]. A charter dated Jan 1213 (New Style) confirms a grant of rights to the church of Sainte-Marie at Clairvaux by "Willelmus…Pontivi et Monstreoli comes et Aalis, uxor eius, filia pii regis Ludovici" agreed a concession made by one of his vassals, with the consent of "Aalis sa femme et de Marie leur fille"[680]. A charter dated Mar 1215 under which "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli" confirmed property rights of the church of Saint-Valéry granted by "Johannis comitis Pontivi patris mei et Beatricis matris mee et mea"[681].

Comte Guillaume [II] & his wife had [two] children:

1. MARIE de Ponthieu (before 17 Apr 1199-Sep 1250). The De Rebus Hispaniæ of Rodericus Ximenes names "Mariam…mater Joannæ Reginæ Castellæ et Legionis" as the daughter of "Comitis de Pontivo" and his wife "Adelodis" daughter of "Ludovico Regi Francorum" (and his wife "Elisabeth", an error for Constanza)[682]. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli" donated property to the church of Saint Giosse, with the consent of "Marie filie mee et Aelis uxoris mee", by charter dated 1205[683]. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli…et Aalais uxor mea comitissa Pontivi et Maria filia mea" granted concessions by charter dated 1207[684]. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli" granted rights to one of his vassals, with the consent of "Aalis, uxoris mee Ludovici regis filie et Marie filie mee", by charter dated Aug 1208[685]. "Willelmus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli" granted rights to the commune of Maioc, with the consent of "Aalis, uxoris mee et Symonis de Bolonia, generis mei, et Marie filie mee, uxoris eius", by charter dated 1209[686]. "Willaume comte de Pontieu et de Montreuil" agreed a concession made by one of his vassals, with the consent of "Aalis sa femme et de Marie leur fille" by charter dated Nov 1211[687]. She succeeded her father in 1221 as Ctss de Ponthieu. Louis VIII King of France confirms an agreement with "consanguinea nostra Maria comitissa Pontivi" related to rights of her "filios et filios quos susceperat a Simone fratre comitis Renaldi Bolonie" by charter dated 1225[688]. "Symon comes Pontivi et Monsteroli et Maria uxor mea" confirmed a donation of property to the abbey of Notre-Dame d'Ourscamp by "Johannes comes Pontivi" by charter dated 2 Mar 1230[689]. "Maria comitissa Pontivi et Monstreoli" donated property to the church of Boulogne in memory of "Symon comes Pontivi et Monstreoli…maritus meus" by charter dated Oct 1239[690]. The primary source which confirms her second marriage has not yet been identified, although it is suggested by the charter dated Sep 1242 under which "Matheus comes Pontivi et Monstreoli et Maria uxor eius, comitissa" noted property sales[691]. m firstly (before Sep 1208) SIMON de Dammartin Comte d'Aumâle, son of AUBRY [II] Comte de Dammartin & his wife Mathilde [Mabile] de Clermont-en-Beauvaisis (-21 Sep 1239). m secondly ([Sep 1240/15 Dec 1241]) MATHIEU de Montmorency Seigneur d'Attichy, son of --- (-killed in battle Mansurah 8 Feb 1250).

2. [JEAN de Ponthieu (1199-killed in battle 1214). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. His absence from his father's charters dated 1205 to 1211 (see above), in which his sister Marie is named, casts doubt on his existence or at least the accuracy of the dates shown here.]

William III Talvas (1179 – October 4, 1221) was William III, Count of Ponthieu and William IV (of the house of Belleme/Montgomery). He was Count of Ponthieu, ruler of a small province in northern France that fell under the suzerainty of the dukes of Normandy (later also kings of England) since at least the mid 11th century. He was son and heir of John I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191) by his third wife Beatrice de St Pol.

His father Jean I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191 was the son of Guy II, Count of Ponthieu (who died on the Second Crusade 1147) and grandson of William III of Ponthieu, also frequently called William III Talvas, and who represented the senior line of the lords of Montgomery, once trusted vassals and allies of William the Conqueror.

Talvas was married on August 20, 1195 to Alys, Countess of the Vexin, the daughter of King Louis VII of France. She was some eighteen years older than he, and had previously been seduced by King Henry II of England while betrothed to his son, King Richard the Lion-Hearted. Richard sent her back to her brother, King Philip II of France, refusing to marry his father's mistress.

Philip then arranged for Alys to marry William Talvas, with the intent that the couple would be childless, and he would thus gain control of Ponthieu, a small but strategically important county. However, Alys then gave birth to a daughter and heiress, Marie, in 1197/1198. This daughter was the maternal grandmother of Eleanor of Castile, first wife of Edward I, King of England, to whom Ponthieu and the disputed Vexin inheritance would eventually pass as Eleanor's dowry. William Talvis died in 1221, his daughter Marie being his heiress.

William III Talvas (1179 – October 4, 1221) was William II (or III), Count of Ponthieu and William IV Talvas (of the house of Belleme/Montgomery). He was Count of Ponthieu, ruler of a small province in northern France that fell under the suzerainty of the dukes of Normandy (later also kings of England) since at least the mid 11th century. He was son and heir of John I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191) by his third wife Beatrice de St Pol.

His father Jean I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191 was the son and heir of Guy II, Count of Ponthieu (who died on the Second Crusade 1147), himself the son and heir of William III of Ponthieu. The great-grandfather William I, Count of Ponthieu (or William III Talvas) had surrendered the county of Ponthieu to his son Guy I for his lifetime, and then reobtained it after Guy's early death, which might explain why his great-grandson is usually known as William III Talvas.

William I Talvas, Count of Ponthieu was himself the son of Agnes, Countess of Ponthieu (d by 1105) by her husband, a notorious and powerful Norman baron Robert de Belleme, 3rd and last Earl of Shrewsbury, Lord of Montgomery; thus William III Talvas represented the senior line of the lords of Montgomery, once trusted vassals and allies of William the Conqueror.

Talvas was married on August 20, 1195 to Alys, Countess of the Vexin, the daughter of King Louis VII of France. She was some eighteen years older than he, and had previously been the mistress of King Henry II of England while betrothed to his son, King Richard the Lion-Hearted. Richard sent her back to her brother, King Philip II of France, refusing to marry his father's mistress.

Philip then arranged for Alys to marry William Talvas, with the intent that the couple would be childless, and he would thus gain control of Ponthieu, a small but strategically important county. However, Alys then gave birth to a daughter and heiress, Marie, in 1197/1198. This daughter, the middle of three children, was the maternal grandmother of Eleanor of Castile, first wife of Edward I, King of England. Another genealogical table says that Alys and William III Talvas also had a son Jean (1199-1214 killed at Bouvines), while others attribute at least one more daughter to William and Alys.

In either case, at the death (in 1221) of William III Talvas, his daughter Marie was his heiress until her own death in 1251. For his marriage with Simon de Dammartin, count of Aumale, she bore four daughters, and Ponthieu then passed to her eldest daughter, Jeanne, wife of St Ferdinand, King of Castile and Leon. Jeanne died 1279, and Ponthieu and the disputed Vexin inheritance apparently formed the dowry/inheritance of Eleanor of Castile, wife of Edward I

For the history of Ponthieu, which was claimed by the English crown since 1279, see the relevant article. The important Battle of Crécy (1346) was fought in the province of Ponthieu.

Occupation: Count of Ponthieu

William III Talvas (1179 – October 4, 1221) was William III, Count of Ponthieu and William IV (of the house of Belleme/Montgomery). He was Count of Ponthieu, ruler of a small province in northern France that fell under the suzerainty of the dukes of Normandy (later also kings of England) since at least the mid 11th century. He was son and heir of John I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191) by his third wife Beatrice de St Pol.

His father Jean I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191 was the son of Guy II, Count of Ponthieu (who died on the Second Crusade 1147) and grandson of William III of Ponthieu, also frequently called William III Talvas, and who represented the senior line of the lords of Montgomery, once trusted vassals and allies of William the Conqueror.

Marriage to Alys, Countess of the Vexin

Talvas was married on August 20, 1195 to Alys, Countess of the Vexin, the daughter of King Louis VII of France. She was some eighteen years older than he, and had previously been seduced by King Henry II of England while betrothed to his son, King Richard the Lion-Hearted. Richard sent her back to her brother, King Philip II of France, refusing to marry his father's mistress.

Philip then arranged for Alys to marry William Talvas, with the intent that the couple would be childless, and he would thus gain control of Ponthieu, a small but strategically important county. However, Alys then gave birth to a daughter and heiress, Marie, in 1197/1198. This daughter was the maternal grandmother of Eleanor of Castile, first wife of Edward I, King of England, to whom Ponthieu and the disputed Vexin inheritance would eventually pass as Eleanor's dowry. William Talvis died in 1221, his daughter Marie being his heiress.

His father Jean I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191 was the son and heir of Guy II, Count of Ponthieu (who died on the Second Crusade 1147), himself the son and heir of William III of Ponthieu. The great-grandfather William I, Count of Ponthieu (or William III Talvas) had surrendered the county of Ponthieu to his son Guy I for his lifetime, and then reobtained it after Guy's early death, which might explain why his great-grandson is usually known as William III Talvas.

William I Talvas, Count of Ponthieu was himself the son of Agnes, Countess of Ponthieu (d by 1105) by her husband, a notorious and powerful Norman baron Robert de Belleme, 3rd and last Earl of Shrewsbury, Lord of Montgomery; thus William III Talvas represented the senior line of the lords of Montgomery, once trusted vassals and allies of William the Conqueror.

Talvas was married on August 20, 1195 to Alys, Countess of the Vexin, the daughter of King Louis VII of France. She was some eighteen years older than he, and had previously been the mistress of King Henry II of England while betrothed to his son, King Richard the Lion-Hearted. Richard sent her back to her brother, King Philip II of France, refusing to marry his father's mistress.

Philip then arranged for Alys to marry William Talvas, with the intent that the couple would be childless, and he would thus gain control of Ponthieu, a small but strategically important county. However, Alys then gave birth to a daughter and heiress, Marie, in 1197/1198. This daughter, the middle of three children, was the maternal grandmother of Eleanor of Castile, first wife of Edward I, King of England. Another genealogical table says that Alys and William III Talvas also had a son Jean (1199-1214 killed at Bouvines), while others attribute at least one more daughter to William and Alys.

In either case, at the death (in 1221) of William III Talvas, his daughter Marie was his heiress until her own death in 1251. For his marriage with Simon de Dammartin, count of Aumale, she bore four daughters, and Ponthieu then passed to her eldest daughter, Jeanne, wife of St Ferdinand, King of Castile and Leon. Jeanne died 1279, and Ponthieu and the disputed Vexin inheritance apparently formed the dowry/inheritance of Eleanor of Castile, wife of Edward I

For the history of Ponthieu, which was claimed by the English crown since 1279, see the relevant article. The important Battle of Crécy (1346) was fought in the province of Ponthieu.

His father Jean I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191 was the son and heir of Guy II, Count of Ponthieu (who died on the Second Crusade 1147), himself the son and heir of William III of Ponthieu. The great-grandfather William I, Count of Ponthieu (or William III Talvas) had surrendered the county of Ponthieu to his son Guy I for his lifetime, and then reobtained it after Guy's early death, which might explain why his great-grandson is usually known as William III Talvas.

William I Talvas, Count of Ponthieu was himself the son of Agnes, Countess of Ponthieu (d by 1105) by her husband, a notorious and powerful Norman baron Robert de Belleme, 3rd and last Earl of Shrewsbury, Lord of Montgomery; thus William III Talvas represented the senior line of the lords of Montgomery, once trusted vassals and allies of William the Conqueror.

Talvas was married on August 20, 1195 to Alys, Countess of the Vexin, the daughter of King Louis VII of France. She was some eighteen years older than he, and had previously been the mistress of King Henry II of England while betrothed to his son, King Richard the Lion-Hearted. Richard sent her back to her brother, King Philip II of France, refusing to marry his father's mistress.

Philip then arranged for Alys to marry William Talvas, with the intent that the couple would be childless, and he would thus gain control of Ponthieu, a small but strategically important county. However, Alys then gave birth to a daughter and heiress, Marie, in 1197/1198. This daughter, the middle of three children, was the maternal grandmother of Eleanor of Castile, first wife of Edward I, King of England. Another genealogical table says that Alys and William III Talvas also had a son Jean (1199-1214 killed at Bouvines), while others attribute at least one more daughter to William and Alys.

In either case, at the death (in 1221) of William III Talvas, his daughter Marie was his heiress until her own death in 1251. For his marriage with Simon de Dammartin, count of Aumale, she bore four daughters, and Ponthieu then passed to her eldest daughter, Jeanne, wife of St Ferdinand, King of Castile and Leon. Jeanne died 1279, and Ponthieu and the disputed Vexin inheritance apparently formed the dowry/inheritance of Eleanor of Castile, wife of Edward I

For the history of Ponthieu, which was claimed by the English crown since 1279, see the relevant article. The important Battle of Crécy (1346) was fought in the province of Ponthieu.

William III Talvas (1179 – October 4, 1221) was William III, Count of Ponthieu and William IV (of the house of Belleme/Montgomery). He was Count of Ponthieu, ruler of a small province in northern France that fell under the suzerainty of the dukes of Normandy (later also kings of England) since at least the mid 11th century. He was son and heir of John I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191) by his third wife Beatrice de St Pol.

Family history and background

His father Jean I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191 was the son of Guy II, Count of Ponthieu (who died on the Second Crusade 1147) and grandson of William III of Ponthieu, also frequently called William III Talvas, and who represented the senior line of the lords of Montgomery, once trusted vassals and allies of William the Conqueror.

[edit] Marriage to Alys, Countess of the Vexin

Talvas was married on August 20, 1195 to Alys, Countess of the Vexin, the daughter of King Louis VII of France. She was some eighteen years older than he, and had previously been seduced by King Henry II of England while betrothed to his son, King Richard the Lion-Hearted. Richard sent her back to her brother, King Philip II of France, refusing to marry his father's mistress.

Philip then arranged for Alys to marry William Talvas, with the intent that the couple would be childless, and he would thus gain control of Ponthieu, a small but strategically important county. However, Alys then gave birth to a daughter and heiress, Marie, in 1197/1198. This daughter was the maternal grandmother of Eleanor of Castile, first wife of Edward I, King of England, to whom Ponthieu and the disputed Vexin inheritance would eventually pass as Eleanor's dowry. William Talvis died in 1221, his daughter Marie being his heiress.

Source: The book, 'Richard the Lion-Hearted', by John Gillingham.

William IV Talvas (1179 – October 4, 1221) was William III, Count of Ponthieu and William IV (of the house of Belleme/Montgomery). He was Count of Ponthieu, ruler of a small province in northern France that fell under the suzerainty of the dukes of Normandy (later also kings of England) since at least the mid 11th century. He was son and heir of John I, Count of Ponthieu (d. 1191) by his third wife Beatrice de St Pol. His father Jean I, Count of Ponthieu (d 1191 was the son of Guy II, Count of Ponthieu (who died on the Second Crusade 1147) and grandson of William III of Ponthieu, also frequently called William III Talvas, and who represented the senior line of the lords of Montgomery, once trusted vassals and allies of William the Conqueror. Marriage to Alys, Countess of the Vexin: Talvas was married on August 20, 1195 to Alys, Countess of the Vexin, the daughter of King Louis VII of France. She was some eighteen years older than he, and was said by some to have been seduced by King Henry II of England while betrothed to his son, King Richard the Lion-Hearted. Richard sent her back to her brother, King Philip II of France, refusing to marry his father's mistress. Philip then arranged for Alys to marry William Talvas, with the intent that the couple would be childless, and he would thus gain control of Ponthieu, a small but strategically important county. However, Alys then gave birth to a daughter and heiress, Marie, in 1197/1198. This daughter was the maternal grandmother of Eleanor of Castile, first wife of Edward I, King of England, to whom Ponthieu and the disputed Vexin inheritance would eventually pass as Eleanor's dowry. William Talvas died in 1221, his daughter Marie being his heiress. Life: William was an important army commander in the Anglo-French War (1202–1214). He also participated in the Albigensian Crusade, particularly in the Siege of Termes in 1210. He led the left wing of the victorious French army in the Battle of Bouvines in 1214.

www.findagrave.com

Guillaume II “Talvas” de Ponthieu
BIRTH 1178
DEATH 6 Oct 1221 (aged 42–43)
BURIAL
Abbey of Valloires
Argoules, Departement de la Somme, Picardie, France
MEMORIAL ID 102346447

Nobility. Only son of Jean I and his third wife Beatrice de St.-Pol, also known as Guillaume IV. He succeeded his father in 1191 as Comte de Ponthieu. He married Alix de France, a daughter of Louis VII, in 1195. They had one daughter who succeeded him.
He was first buried at Notre-Dame de Balances and was transferred to Valloire in 1226.
Family Members
Spouse
Alais De France De Ponthieu
1160–1220

Children
Marie de Ponthieu
1199–1250