Isabella Madison

Not the child of Captain Thomas Todd, I, of Toddsbury and Anna Oldton

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Family Tree of President James Madison says Isabella's parents are John Minor & Elizabeth Taylor https://www.archives.com/genealogy/president-madison.html

“It is also unlikely her parents were John Minor b 1637 and wife Isabell Taylor b 1641, who had one daughter Isabella. Both were deceased at the time of Ambrose's will.”

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Family

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Madison-15
Isabella, whose surname and parents are uncertain, was probably born say 1655 based on having a son when she married John Madison. She died after 1725/26 when she was named in an account book of Ambrose Madison (grandfather of Pres. James Madison).[1]
Her first husband may have been named TODD since she had a son Thomas Todd when she married John Madison.[2] She married second circa 1680, at VA, John MADISON Jr, son of John MADISON Sr and Mary (surname unknown, not Ambrose).
John Madison (the 2nd) married Isabella circa 1680 at VA. Their children (surname Madison) include:[5]

1. John III - b. between 1680 and 1685, d. before 5 Nov 1734; m. Ann
2. Elizabeth - b. circa 1685, d. after 1741; m. John PENN Sr
3. Thomas - b. before 1694, d. 20 Jan 1754, Inv. 10 Jul 1755; m. Joanah
4. Ambrose - b. circa 1696, d. 27 Aug 1732; m. Frances TAYLOR
5. Henry - b. circa 1698, d. before Aug 1757; m. Elizabeth COLEMAN
6. Eleanor - b. circa 1704, d. before 22 Feb 1758; m. James COLEMAN
7. James - b. before 1707

NOTE: That his wife Isabella was born a Todd has been disputed.

"Isabella Todd, youngest child, b. in VA 1670; m. John Madison II, was dau of Ann Gousuch, b. at Walkern, Herts, Eng., Mar. 13, 1638/9, d. at 'Toddsbury,' Gloucester Co., VA, between May 24, 1694 and Nov. 10, 1697; m.(1) CAPT. THOMAS TODD, b. at Denton Co, Durham, Eng., d. at sea, 1676; He came to VA Feb. 22, 1653; m.pr. 30 May 1677, Ann Gorsuch, dau. of Rev. John & and Ann Lovelace Gorsuch, D.D. Ann dau of Sir William Lovelace, Knt. & Anne Barnes; The trace goes on to Charlemagne and of course beyond."

According to Madison researcher Robert Allen, Isabella was NOT daughter of Anne Gorsuch and Capt. Thomas Todd whose daughter was named Averilla and married someone else.[3]
Born 1670 Hanover, VA died 1706. Thomas Todd & Anne Gorsuch way too late to be her documented parent; so, they were adoptive. The oral history is the biological father was Thomas or John Minor, which is likely of the A1 mtdna group of Minors who were known to be Croatan area native.
Adoptive Parents were Thomas Todd born 1619 Toddsburg, Wear Parish, Gloucester, VA AND Died Haymow, England and Anne Gorsuch born 1639 Walken, Herts, England died 1694 Baltimore, England. WHO married 1655 Walken, Hertfordshire, England.
In Ambrose Madison's will, probated in 1732, he left land to his heirs, and to four men - James Coleman, Daniel Stodgill, Francis [ ]s, and David Roach - whom some researchers believe to be the husbands of Ambrose's sisters. (Virginia Genealogist. Vol. 26. pp. 286-287.) David Roach was an overseer for Ambrose Madison, apparently on the Brookesby tract, 10,000 acres of land Ambrose Madison owned with several partners. Other historians believe that the mention of David Roach in Ambrose Madison's will was only as payment for his services as overseer. (Letter from Ann Miller. Orange County
Historical Society. January 20, 1995.) Until further information can be found, the Madison have been included in this genealogy.
[Isabella's children were Leah Todd Stoddard Barclay, Ambrose Madison, Isabella Abney born Madison, and Elizabeth Anne Penn born Madison, Catherine Gaines born Madison]
President James Madison’s handwritten genealogy says that his grandfather was Ambrose Madison and that Ambrose Madison’s parents (and his ancestors) were John Madison and “Isabella Minor Todd”. If Isabella’s maiden name was Minor and she was previously married to a Mr. Todd, then it is quite possible that John Maddison, Jr., was previously married too before he married Isabella and that John Maddison, Jr., had some children by his unknown first wife.
http://oolongtracy.blogspot.com/2008/07/madisons-of-colonial-virgin...
Isabella Minor Madison is Dorothy Willard's 7th great grandmother.
Dorothy Willard (Duncan) -John Henry Duncan, Dorothy’s father-Emma Whitman, John Henry’s mother- Mary Jane Stodghill, Emma’s mother- Joel Stodghill, Mary’s father- Durette Stodghill, Joel’s father- Joel Stodghill, Durette’s father- James Stodghill, Joel’s father- Ann Madison, James’ mother- Isabella Minor Todd, Ann’s mother

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Great Grandmother of President Madison
Madison genforum:
www.jmu.edu/madison/family/familytree.htm has a document in the form of a family ancestral tree in President James Madison's own hand that claims one of his great grandparents as Isabella Minor Todd. Since he writes his wife's name as D.P. Todd and we know that Dorothea Payne was married first to John Todd, then we can assume the same order of naming was used for his great grandmother. So Isabella was not a Todd, and since middle names were not used then we can assume she was a Minor, if she was married only once previously.
This family outline is reproduced in "Genealogies of Virginia Families," Vol III, (William & Mary Quarterly) opposite p. 523.
Isabella WAS THE DAUGHTER OF EITHER THOMAS MINOR OR JOHN MINOR -- When she married John Madison, she had a son named Thomas Todd. -- This RootsWeb entry says she is the daughter of Thomas Todd 1619-09-12 Gloucester ENG + Anna Gorsuch, but that seems unlikely given the above. -- Genforum message 28 has an excerpt from "The American Genealogist" demonstrating that Isabel was not a daughter of Thomas Todd.
THIS PERSON IS CONTESTED AS WIFE OF JOHN MADISON -- Read notes below. She appears in LDS files on US presidents, but she is not found in wills of her supposed parents Todd & Gorsuch. She is most likely daughter of John or Thomas Minor.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~mysouthernfamily/myff/d000...
Isabella Minor? TODD?
ABT 1663 - AFT 1710
ID Number: I11083
RESIDENCE: K&Q Co. VA
BIRTH: ABT 1663, Toddsbury, Gloucester, VA [59001]
DEATH: AFT 1710, St. Stephen's Parish, King & Queen Co. VA
RESOURCES: See: Error Notes LDS 9JXJ-W5 [S273] [S650] [S1976] [S1989] [S2481]
Father: Thomas TODD "the Immigrant"
Mother: Anne GORSUCH
Family 1 : John MADISON II
MARRIAGE: ABT 1692

Ann MADISON

+Ambrose MADISON
+Elizabeth Ann MADISON
+John MADISON III

Henry MADISON

+Eleanor MADISON

James MADISON

+Roger MADISON
Notes
Isabella, usually called Todd (but not a daughter of Capt. Thomas Todd & Anne Gorsuch), d. post 1706. CONFLICT: daughter of Thomas Todd and Anne Gorsuch. Posted by Don Page on October 16, 1998: "There is a lot of people who think there was such a person as Isabella Minor Todd who married John Madison Jr. She was supposed to be the daughter of Capt Thomas Todd and Anna Gorsuch. In my opinion this is all false.
First, Thomas Todd and Anna Gorsuch did not have a daughter Isabella (see both of their wills).
Second, I can find no proof that John Madison Jr married an Isabella Minor Todd. Third John Madison did not have a daughter Mary who married Samuel Brockman. Would like to exchange data with anyone who has proof of any of this." Don Page
President's line on microfishe at Harold B. Lee Library at Brigham Young University shows her name as Isabella Minor Todd. per Donna Hull EMail: dmhull@frazmtn.com.
[S273]
[59001]
or Walkern, Hertford, England
http://genforum.genealogy.com/madison/messages/338.html
If you go to www.jmu.edu/madison/family/familytree.htm you can view a document in the form of a family ancestral tree in President James Madison's own hand that claims one of his great grandparents as Isabella Minor Todd.
Since he writes his wife's name as D.P. Todd and we know that Dorothea Payne was married first to John Todd, then we can assume the same order of naming was used for his great grandmother. So Isabella was not a Todd, and since middle names were not used then we can assume she was a Minor, if she was married only once previously.
www.jmu.edu/madison/family/familytree.htm
Notes:
genforum:
birth and death dates
--
www.jmu.edu/madison/family/familytree.htm has a document in the form of a family ancestral tree in President James Madison's own hand that claims one of his great grandparents as Isabella Minor Todd.
Since he writes his wife's name as D.P. Todd and we know that Dorothea Payne was married first to John Todd, then we can assume the same order of naming was used for his great grandmother. So Isabella was not a Todd, and since middle names were not used then we can assume she was a Minor, if she was married only once previously.
Isabella WAS THE DAUGHTER OF EITHER THOMAS MINOR OR JOHN MINOR
When she married John Madison, she had a son named Thomas Todd.
This RootsWeb entry says she is the daughter of Thomas Todd 1619-09-12 Gloucester ENG + Anna Gorsuch, but that seems unlikely given the above.
Genforum message 28 has an excerpt from "The American Genealogist" demonstrating that Isabel was not a daughter of Thomas Todd.
Hinds Site: Genealogy of Ken Hinds -- page 3832
Great Grandmother of President Madison
Madison genforum: www.jmu.edu/madison/family/familytree.htm has a document in the form of a family ancestral tree in President James Madison's own hand that claims one of his great grandparents as Isabella Minor Todd. Since he writes his wife's name as D.P. Todd and we know that Dorothea Payne was married first to John Todd, then we can assume the same order of naming was used for his great grandmother. So Isabella was not a Todd, and since middle names were not used then we can assume she was a Minor, if she was married only once previously.
This family outline is reproduced in "Genealogies of Virginia Families," Vol III, (William & Mary Quarterly) opposite p. 523.
Isabella WAS THE DAUGHTER OF EITHER THOMAS MINOR OR JOHN MINOR -- When she married John Madison, she had a son named Thomas Todd. -- This RootsWeb entry says she is the daughter of Thomas Todd 1619-09-12 Gloucester ENG + Anna Gorsuch, but that seems unlikely given the above. -- Genforum message 28 has an excerpt from "The American Genealogist" demonstrating that Isabel was not a daughter of Thomas Todd.

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THIS PERSON IS CONTESTED AS WIFE OF JOHN MADISON -- Read notes below. She appears in LDS files on US presidents, but she is not found in wills of her supposed parents Todd & Gorsuch. She is most likely daughter of John or Thomas Minor.
Mother: Anne GORSUCH
Ann MADISON
Henry MADISON
James MADISON
Isabella, usually called Todd (but not a daughter of Capt. Thomas Todd & Anne Gorsuch), d. post 1706. CONFLICT: daughter of Thomas Todd and Anne Gorsuch. Posted by Don Page on October 16, 1998: "There is a lot of people who think there was such a person as Isabella Minor Todd who married John Madison Jr. She was supposed to be the daughter of Capt Thomas Todd and Anna Gorsuch. In my opinion this is all false.
First, Thomas Todd and Anna Gorsuch did not have a daughter Isabella (see both of their wills).
Second, I can find no proof that John Madison Jr married an Isabella Minor Todd. Third John Madison did not have a daughter Mary who married Samuel Brockman. Would like to exchange data with anyone who has proof of any of this." Don Page
President's line on microfishe at Harold B. Lee Library at Brigham Young University shows her name as Isabella Minor Todd. per Donna Hull EMail: dmhull@frazmtn.com.
[59001]
www.jmu.edu/madison/family/familytree.htm
genforum:
birth and death dates
Madison genforum:
www.jmu.edu/madison/family/familytree.htm has a document in the form of a family ancestral tree in President James Madison's own hand that claims one of his great grandparents as Isabella Minor Todd.
Isabella WAS THE DAUGHTER OF EITHER THOMAS MINOR OR JOHN MINOR
When she married John Madison, she had a son named Thomas Todd.
This RootsWeb entry says she is the daughter of Thomas Todd 1619-09-12 Gloucester ENG + Anna Gorsuch, but that seems unlikely given the above.
Genforum message 28 has an excerpt from "The American Genealogist" demonstrating that Isabel was not a daughter of Thomas Todd.
Hinds Site: Genealogy of Ken Hinds -- page 3832 show less View All Immediate Family

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http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/e/n/Elaine-Hensley/WEB... www.myheritage.com smart matches http://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-01-02-0063-0001
Isabella Minor Todd-Madison (b. 1662, d. Aft. 1706)
Isabella Minor Todd-Madison (daughter of Capt. Thomas Todd and Anne Gorsuch-Todd) was born 1662 in Woodbury, Gloucester, Virginia, and died Aft. 1706 in King and Queen County, Virginia. She married John Madison.

• I. Great-Grandmother of the 4th President of the United States of America, Pres. James Madison, known as the "Father of the American Constituion".
• III. Children of John Madison and Isabella Minor Todd-Madison:

1. John MADISON b: Abt 1690 in ,Essex, Virginia 2. Catherine Madison b: 1693 in Virginia 3. Mary MADISON b: 1695 in Orange County, Va. 4. Elizabeth AnnMADISON b: 1697 in Orange County, Va. 5. Ambrose MADISON b: 1700 in Essex, Orange County, Virginia 6. Roger MADISON b: 1701 in Va. 7. Miss MADISON b: Abt 1704 in Va. 8. Henry MADISON b: Bef 1706 in Va. 9. Thomas MADISON b: Bef 1706 in Va. 10. Miss MADISON b: Abt 1706 in Va.
John Madison, the second of that name in Virginia, and his wife, Isabella Minor Todd, had a son, Ambrose (d. 1732), who married Frances Taylor (1700–1761) in 1721. Frances Taylor was a daughter of James Taylor (ca. 1674–1729), probably the second rather than the third of that name in Virginia, and of his wife, Martha Thompson (1679–1762). The son of Ambrose and Frances Taylor Madison was James Madison, Sr. (1723–1801), the father of JM. A son of Edwin Conway (ca. 1642–1698) and his wife, Elizabeth Thornton, was Francis Conway (1697–1733). Rebecca Catlett (d. 1760), whom Francis married about 1718, was the granddaughter of Elizabeth Underwood and John Catlett, killed by Indians in a fort at Port Royal on the Rappahannock River in 1670, and a daughter of John’s son of the same name (1658–1724) and his wife, Elizabeth Gaines. Nelly Conway (1732–1829), one of the children of Francis and Rebecca Catlett Conway, married James Madison, Sr., on 15 September 1749.
My 8th Great-Grandmother. She was also great-grandmother of President James Madison, author of the United States Constitution.
Isabella's maiden name was Minor. Information came from the family tree of President James Madison, that can be found here https://www.archives.com/genealogy/president-madison.html
Isabella's real parents were John Minor & Elizabeth Taylor. Her adoptive parents were Thomas Todd & Anne Gorsuch.
Isabella married John Madison II
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Born 1670 Hanover, VA died 1706. Thomas Todd & Anne Gorsuch way too late to be her documented parent; so, they were adoptive. The oral history is the biological father was Thomas or John Minor, which is likely of the A1 mtdna group of Minors who were known to be Croatan area native.
Adoptive Parents were Thomas Todd born 1619 Toddsburg, Wear Parish, Gloucester, VA AND Died Haymow, England and Anne Gorsuch born 1639 Walken, Herts, England died 1694 Baltimore, England. WHO married 1655 Walken, Hertfordshire, England.
Isabelle's sibling were Anne, Thomas, Robert, John, Frances, Johanna, Averilla, James, Lancelot, and Isabelle Minor Madison born Todd.
Isabella's children were Leah Todd Stoddard Barclay, Ambrose Madison, Isabella Abney born Madison, and Elizabeth Anne Penn born Madison.

GEDCOM Note

GEDCOM data

Sources / Parents

In the sources within the attached father’s profile there is no mention of a daughter named Isabel among the nine children of Capt. Todd and Anne Gorsuch. This profile has no sources—anyone have more information?

Isabel Minor / Isabel Minor Todd

There seems to be great confusion over the parentage of Isabel Madison, ancestor of President James Madison. Was she born a Minor or a Todd? From a discussion of it on Wikitree, which seems to be more rigorous in proving relations, it appears that Isabel might have married a Todd before marrying John Madison. Per my previous note (now shown below) a list of children from the attached parents’ wills (both of them) shows no reference to a daughter named Isabel. The National Society of Madison Family Descendants shows Isabel to have been born Minor, with no parents (because it appears inconclusive as to whether her father was John or Thomas Minor). I believe some of the confusion here may be compounded by the fact that we know President James Madison to have proven royal ancestry. If we accept Anne Gorsuch Todd as Isabel’s mother, we see that royal ancestry, in part, in addition to several ancestors influential in the creation of the American colonies—who would be a sensible fit for the prominent Madisons—but I’m beginning to assume the proven royal / Magna Carta ancestry comes from someone in his maternal line (which is not in my line) and in a quick view of that on the Madison Family website, we see two known names of noble descent as close ancestors: Savage and Constable. The matter appears inconclusive, but pointing toward disproving the Gorsuch Todd connection.

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• Reference: FamilySearch Genealogy - SmartCopy: Feb 8 2022, 1:31:37 UTC