Clement Vann

Not the son of Edward Vann, Jr.

Clement Vann

• Birth: say 1745. Seen as 5 Mar 1746 in Province of North Carolina, but citations are needed.
• Son of Edward Vann [uncertain] and [mother unknown]
• Brother of Joseph Vann [half], Edward B Vann [half], Thomas Vann Sr, Edith (Vann) Coody [half], Susannah (Vann) Crutchfield [half] and Avery Vann [half]
• Husband of Wah-li (Cherokee) Vann — married 1800 [location unknown]
• Died about 1832 at about age 85 in Spring Place, Murray County, Georgia, United States

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Updated 3 January 2023

From https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Vann-149

Uncertain Origins

The Moravian Journals identify him as the brother of Avery Vann. "August 12,1807. A son of Mr. Avery Vann, a brother of Clement Vann, attended the afternoon school session." [1]

Clement Vann was a white man, probably born in North Carolina about 1745. According to a deposition he made in 1829, he said that he had been in the Cherokee nation for about 50 years. [2] He first appears in records there in the journals of the Moravian missionaries. He was the second husband of a woman named "Wah-li," the widow of Joseph Vann. He was probably a cousin or a half-brother to Joseph Vann. Clement and Wah-li are believed to have married about 1782. They had no children together. As second husband of "Mother Vann," he was step-father to her son, Cherokee Chief James Vann (c1766-1809).[3] Clement was baptized by the Moravians in 1819, but he apparently was a backslider. In 1829 they wrote that he had come to services drunk and was "causing disturbances." [4] In January, 1832 the Moravians noted that Clement and his wife had been encouraged to move West by government agents, but that Clement had declared that they would never move. [5] Although Mother Vann is mentioned as late as 1835, Clement is not mentioned after this entry, so it is assumed that he died about 1832.

Research Notes

Many 20th century publications include erroneous information about the Vanns. An article about the Vanns written by genealogist Penelope Allen in 1936 seems to be the source of much of this misinformation. Following are corrections to some of the errors in her article (sources are noted in the profiles of the individuals):

- The origin of the Vann family is unknown.
- They were not a noble family and did not have a coat of arms.
- The first documented Vanns settled in Virginia in the 1600's and moved south through North and South Carolina.
- The first of the Vanns to come to the Cherokee Nation was John Vann who arrived about 1746
- John Vann was followed by Joseph Vann, probably a nephew of John.
- Joseph Vann married a Cherokee woman called Wah-li about 1765.
- Joseph and Wah-li were the parents of three children James, Jennie, and Nancy.
- Joseph died about 1780.
- Clement Vann possibly Joseph's younger half-brother arrived in the Cherokee Nation about 1780.
- Clement married the widowed Wah-li. They had no children.
- Wah-li died before 1835 in the Cherokee Nation (East). She was not removed to Indian Territory, she did not live to be 130 years old.
- James Vann was murdered by an unknown assailant in 1809.
- His burial location is unknown. Attempts to locate it have been unsuccessful.
- His grave marker is not on his grave.
- James Vann had at least nine wives, all Cherokee
- James Vann and his last wife, Peggy Scott, had no children
- James Vann and Nancy Brown were the parents of the son known as "Rich Joe" Vann
- "Rich Joe" built the plantation home known as "Diamond Hill." Construction began in 1819, ten years after his father's death.
- Avery Vann may have been the brother of Clement Vann

Clement Vann listed on the 1909 Miller Roll as of Prior Creek, Oklahoma was the son of Joseph Vann and Carrie Sixkiller, grandson of David Vann and Martha McNair, great-grandson of Avery Vann and Peggy McSwain. [6]

Notes

http://www.genealogy.com/users/h/i/c/James-R-Hicks-VA/GENE1-0002.html

CLEMENT3 VANN, b. March 05, 1746/47, Spring Place, GA; d. Abt. 1832, Spring Place, GA; m. WA-LI VANN; b. Abt. 1747; d. Abt. 1835, Spring Place, GA.

Notes for CLEMENT VANN: Letters Received 1824-1880, Office of Indian Affairs (RG75); In 1829 Clement Vann told General Coffee that he was 83 years old and had been in the Cherokee nation for fifty years. Therefore it is highly unlikely that he could have been the father of the Cherokee Chief, James Vann b 1766, well before Clement Vann entered the Cherokee nation.

In addition, the Moravian Journals consistently referred to James Vann and his mother and her husband, Clement, but they never referred to Clement as James Vann's father.

(notes somewhere in a box in my closet;) James' sister, Nancy, once mentioned that her father was Joseph Vann.

The date of entry into the Cherokee Nation of Clement, and Nancy's reference to Joseph as her father indicate that Joseph Vann and Clement Vann are two seperate individuals.

More About CLEMENT VANN: Blood: Non-Cherokee Moravian Journals: May 16, 1806, Step-father of James Vann

Notes for WA-LI VANN: In 1819 Wa-wli was baptised by the Moravians and her Cherokee name changed to Mary Christianna.

More About WA-LI VANN: Baptism: March 14, 1819, as Mary Christianna Clan: Ani'-Ga'tâge'wi = Kituah or Wild Potato (Wa-Wli Vann)

Sources

1. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Vann-149 cites
   1. McClinton, Rowena, ed. The Moravian Springplace Mission to the Cherokees. University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, NE. 2007. August 12, 1807. p. 206.
   2. Letters Received 1824-1880, Office of Indian Affairs (RG75)
   3. Crews & Starbuck, eds. Records of the Moravians Among the Cherokees. Cherokee Heritage Press, Tahlequah, OK. Vol. 5 p. 2324.
   4. Crews and Starbuck, "Moravians," Vol. 8, p. 4001.
   5. Crews and Starbuck, "Moravians," Vol. 9, p. 4586
   6. "United States, Native American, Eastern Cherokee Indian Reservation Rolls, 1848-1970," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS42-9HL6-9?cc=2796818... : 9 August 2019), Miller roll, 1909 > image 79 of 87; North Carolina State Archives Division of Archives and History, Raleigh. See also:
   7. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tnmcmin2/TheRogersConnectionMytho...
   8. http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/i/c/James-R-Hicks-VA/G...