Lady Margaret de Courtenay

Margaret Courtenay Grenville
BIRTH 1393
Haccombe, Teignbridge District, Devon, England
DEATH 1423 (aged 29–30)
Teignbridge District, Devon, England
BURIAL Unknown
MEMORIAL ID 174148980

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Courtenay-1057

Margaret "the younger" [uncertain] Courtenay
Born about 1345 [location unknown]
ANCESTORS
Daughter of Hugh (Courtenay) de Courtenay [uncertain] and Margaret (Bohun) de Courtenay [uncertain]
Sister of Robert Courtenay, John (Courtenay) de Courtenay, Elizabeth (Courtenay) Luttrell, Hugh Courtenay KG, Thomas Courtenay, Katherine (Courtenay) Engaine, Unknown Courtenay, Margaret (Courtenay) Cobham, Edward (Courtenay) de Courtenay, Peter (Courtenay) de Courtenay KG, William Courtenay, Anne Courtenay, Joan (Courtenay) Cheverston, Philip (Courtenay) de Courtenay and Humphrey Courtenay
Wife of Theobald Grenville — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
DESCENDANTS
Mother of John Grenville MP and William Grenville
Died [date unknown] [location unknown]
Profile manager: C Anonymous
Profile last modified 11 Dec 2019
Created 25 Nov 2017
Biography
Uncertain Parents
The Grenville pedigree in the 1620 Cornwall Visitation states that Theobald Grenville married "Margaret, daughter of Hugh Courteney," without identifying which Hugh Courtenay was Margaret's father -- but there seems to be only one logical choice.[1]

The Courtenay pedigree in Vivivan's Visitations of Cornwall (1887), p. 107 wrongly states that Margaret Courtenay, daughter of Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe (who apparently never existed), was the wife of Theobald Grenville. Vivian contradicts this in the Grenvile pedigree on page 190 of the same book, stating that Theobald's wife was Margaret Courtenay, daughter of Hugh Courtenay, "Earl of Devon".

J.S. Roskell's History of Parliament likewise gives two contradictory statements. Its profile of William Bonville wrongly states that Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe was William Grenville's grandfather.[2] However, its profile of William Grenville's elder brother John states that Hugh Courtenay, 10th Earl of Devon was John Grenville's maternal grandfather. [3]

Douglas Richardson, in Plantagenet Ancestry (2004), and later in Magna Carta Ancestry (2011), also followed Vivian's error in supposing that Theobald Grenville's wife Margaret Courtenay was the daughter of Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe.[4][5]

It is chronologically impossible that Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe was the grandfather of William Grenville, son of Theobald. William's elder brother John was born by 1365 (knighted by 1386), which would mean that his mother Margaret was born by 1350 at the very latest. If we imagine that Margaret wasn't the mother of John, then her son William's birth by around 1380 at the very latest (adult in 1402) means that she would have been born by 1365 (and probably earlier), and her imagined father Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe was born after 1358.[6]

On the other hand, Margaret Courtenay, one of the elder daughters of Hugh Courtenay, the 10th Earl of Devon, married John Cobham. William Pole got around this problem by claiming that Margaret married first John Cobham and second Theobald Grenville.[7]

The problem with this is that John Cobham lived until 1408, so his wife Margaret couldn't have also been the wife of Theobald Grenville, who died in 1381.[8][9]

The likely solution to this puzzle, assuming that Theobald Grenville's wife was indeed named Margaret and was a daughter of Hugh Courtenay, the Earl of Devon, is that Hugh Courtenay and his wife Margaret Bohun had two daughters named Margaret.[10] Giving the same name to two children was not an uncommon practice at the time, especially in families with a lot of children.[11]

Sources
? [Grenville pedigree in the 1620 Cornwall Visitation, pp. 84-85.
? * J.S. Roskell & L. Clarke & C. Rawcliffe, C., "BONVILLE, Sir William II (1392-1461), of Chewton-Mendip, Som. and Shute, Devon," in History of Parliament (1993), online at [1].
? J.S. Roskell & L. Clarke & C. Rawcliffe, C., "GRENVILLE, Sir John (d.1412), of Stow in Kilkhampton, Cornw. and Bideford, Devon," in History of Parliament (1993), online at [2].
? Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry (2004), p. 240.
? Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. I, pp. 547-548.
? This impossibility is also discussed at the Wikipedia page for Hugh Courtenay of Haccombe.
? Sir William Pole, Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon (published 1791 from material collected in the first decades of the 17th century), p. 387.
? After Cobham's wife Margaret Courtenay and her sister Elizabeth died, Bishop Stafford ordered prayers to be said for both them. On 10 Aug 1395, "Bishop Stafford ordered prayers for the deceased ladies Margaret Cobham and Elizabeth Loterell, sisters of the primate William Courtney, archbishop of Cantebury, ... To encourage the faithful to pray for their departed souls, he grants and indulgence for forty days (... Register vol 1. fol. 4)."
? Oliver, 1846, p. 155 (1st col, first to last para).[3]
? "Margaret de Bohun, Countess of Devon (Wikipedia article) and Hugh Courtenay (died 1425) (Wikipedia article).
? The Wikipedia article on Margaret de Bohun, Countess of Devon, footnote 25 (as of Apr. 16, 2018), cites Eamon Duffy's The voices of Morebath: Reformation and rebellion in an English villag (New Haven, 2001), p. 14, showing that it was common practice to give the same name to living siblings and stating that name-sharing was more likely to occur in large families or where the pool of available names was restricted.
Pole, William. Collections Towards a Description of the County of Devon (1791), p. 387. Books.Google.com
Roskell, J.S., Clarke, L. & Rawcliffe, C. (1993). BONVILLE, Sir William II (1392-1461), of Chewton-Mendip, Som. and Shute, Devon. HOP. Web.[4]
Roskell, J.S., Clarke, L. & Rawcliffe, C. (1993). GRENVILLE, Sir John (d.1412), of Stow in Kilkhampton, Cornw. and Bideford, Devon. HOP. Web. [5]