Mary Dacre

Are Mary and Joan Douglas the same person?

Family

William Dacre, 5th Baron Dacre is said to have married Joan Douglas, illegitimate daughter of James Douglas, 2d Earl Douglas of Scotland. However the evidence is not clear. He did marry a “Mary” who was his widow.

https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p2047.htm...

Mary married Sir William de Dacre, 5th Lord Dacre of Gilsland, b. 1357, d. b 1388 son of Hugh de Dacre, 4th Lord Dacre and Elizabeth Maxwell. Mary died after 3 October 1399.1. (No children listed)

Conflicting references

http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/online/content/dacre1321.htm

William [de Dacre], 5th Baron Dacre

• born c. 1357
• mar. Joan Douglas, illegit. dau. of James [Douglas], 1st Earl of Douglas
  • children
    • 1. Thomas de Dacre, later 6th Baron Dacre
    • 1. Joan de Dacre (b. 1374; d. 1456), mar. c 1397 Thomas Musgrave, of Hartley Castle (b. 1378; d. 3 Jan 1447), and had issue
• died 20 Jul 1399 (bur. in Lanercost Priory)
• suc. by son

  ---

http://www.thepeerage.com/p1743.htm#i17421

William de Dacre, 5th Lord Dacre was born circa 1357.1 He was the son of Hugh de Dacre, 4th Lord Dacre and Elizabeth Maxwell.1 He married Mary (?)2 He died on 20 July 1399.1.

He succeeded as the 5th Lord Dacre [E., 1321] on 24 December 1383.1

Child of William de Dacre, 5th Lord Dacre

• Joan de Dacre+3 b. 1374, d. 1456

http://www.thepeerage.com/p1743.htm#i17422

Mary (?) married William de Dacre, 5th Lord Dacre, son of Hugh de Dacre, 4th Lord Dacre and Elizabeth Maxwell.1 She was also known as Joan Douglas.2

Child of William de Dacre, 5th Lord Dacre and Mary (?)

• Thomas Dacre, 6th Lord Dacre+1 b. 27 Oct 1387, d. 15 Jan 1457/58

  ---

  ---

https://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/dd/douglas01.php

• (2) William Douglas, 1st Earl of Douglas, Earl of Mar (d 1384) m. Margaret, Countess of Mar (b c1360, d by 19.10.1393, dau of Donald, 8th Earl of Mar)
  • (A) James Douglas, 2nd Earl of Douglas, Earl of Mar (dspl Otterburn 08.1388) m. Isabel Stewart (dau of Robert Stewart, King Robert II of Scots)
    • (v) Joan Douglas. A Joan of this generation is normally shown as wife of William de Dacre, 5th Lord. We provisionally show his wife as Mary of a generation earlier (see below)
  • (B) Isabella Douglas, Countess of Mar (dsp 1408) m1. (by 1388) Sir Malcolm Drummond (d 1402) m2. (1404) Alexander Stewart, Earl of Mar (dspl 1435)
  • (C) George Douglas, 1st Earl of Angus (d c1403) -- m. (1397) Mary Stewart (dau of John Stewart, King Robert III of Scots) -- partner(s) unknown
  • (D) Margaret Douglas (a 1404) m. Thomas Johnson
  • (E) Mary Douglas possibly of this family, of this generation m. William de Dacre, 5th Lord of Dacre and Multon (b 1357, d c1403)

    ---

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Douglas-405

Note (i) cites a writ assigning Mary, widow of William de Dacre (knight, deceased), her dower. The text dates it 3 October 1399 (he died 20 July 1399) Most social histories of that time period will tell you that such a writ was usually issued within 90 days or so of the death of the husband, as this was. But it identifies his widow as Mary. We have no evidentiary reason to suppose or speculate that Mary was also called Joan or that she was a Douglas.

References

• https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p2047.htm... cites
• 1. [S11568] The Complete Peerage, by Cokayne, Vol. IV, p. 6 (not at https://archive.org/details/completepeerage02cokagoog/page/n18/mode...)