William Guthrie, Sr.

Not the same as Pvt. William Guthrie of Henry County KY

William Guthrie is DAR Ancestor # A048629
Lineage info for the DAR Records for Ancestor #: A048629 is correct, but the dates and death location, and the attribution of that specific Rev War Service belong to a different William Guthrie.

BIOGRAPHY

Guthrie DNA Project Designation: Guthrie Family Group 2A - Branch H
Haplogroup: R-M269 (R-L21 / R-Z30233 / R-BY107525)
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William Guthrie was a son of John Guthrie of Oxford Township and his wife Ann. Much of the information on his family history has been compiled by Rev. Laurence R. Guthrie in 'American Guthrie and Allied Families'. It appears that William Guthrie's family history was merged with the vital statistics and military history of a 2nd man of the same name.

The second individual's family details are found in the Revolutionary War Pension Records for Pvt. William Guthrie of Henry County, KY. Examining the those documents at Fold3 reveals that he is a separate person. Details further below as well as in the Discussion Threads.

William Guthrie's father, John Guthrie, was an immigrant to British Colonial America, settling in Oxford Township on Octoraro Creek as early as 1733. We have been given 1736 as William's DOB, which makes him the eldest child, but also 9 years older than his closest sibling. This DOB was sourced from the Rev. War Pension Records, which are now known to be misattributed. A basic calculation estimating William to be at least 18-21 years of age at the time of his marriage to Esther McClelland provides a broad range of 1740-1743, and still keeps him within a 2-5 year gap with his next closest sibling.

William's marriage to Esther McClelland is documented in the diary of Rev. John Cuthbertson, a Covenanter minister who travelled a wide circuit in neighboring PA counties providing his services. The marriage is recorded in the Middle Octorara Church area in Chester County, PA . The entry is dated 15 June 1761 when the minister "Rode 8 miles to Humphrey Fulerton's after marrying Wm Cutery and Esther Mc(Millan?)" Fullerton lived in the Pequea Valley in Lancaster County.

William and Esther (McClelland) Guthrie were parents to: John (1760), Nancy (1763), Ann (1764), Daniel (1766), William (1769), Esther (1771), and Polly (1773).

The next part of their story may also be confused with that of the other William Guthrie, for it indicates that they moved to York County, Pennsylvania before settling in Augusta County, Virginia.

The very busy Rev. John Culbertson was still making his rounds and in 20 May 1765 noted that he rode 22 miles to his sister's home and "conversed Esther Guth., R. Reddick." Unclear if he conversed with them at his sister's home, or somewhere along the way.

A man named William Guttery was listed as a taxable in Hamiltonban Township, York, PA on 1 Dec 1767 for the Tax Year 1768. It seems clear that LRG believed this was the Guthrie-McClelland family, but no other proof has been found to clarify it.

About 1777, William and Esther moved their family to Augusta County, Virginia and located on land 3 miles west of Waynesboro. See MAP.

LRG wrote: "Leaving his family in their new home (William Guthrie) immediately returned to Pennsylvania, and enlisted in the Seventeenth Regiment of Pennsylvania Continental Line, May 27, 1777. After the war he devoted his time to his plantation in Virginia. He was early identified with the Tinkling Spring Presbyterian Church and continued as a faithful member during his residence in Virginia. (Note: There is no 17th Regiment. It was the 7th.)

There is no record of two men by the name William Guthrie serving in the 7th Regiment. If this William Guthrie served as a Patriot Soldier of the Continental line it may be documented elsewhere, but not in Pension Records. This man died prior to the Pension Act of 1818. (More on that below.)

After the death of his wife Esther McClelland Guthrie in 1794, William signed a Power of Attorney over to his brother-in-law, Isaiah Roberts, entering the document with the Augusta Count, VA court. He moved to York County, Pennsylvania, and sold his home to his son, Daniel Guthrie, on 2 May 1795 (170 acres situated in Beverly Manor).

He did not remain in York County very long. A few months later, on 19 Jan 1796 in Shenandoah County, Virginia,
William Gutridge and Franky Young were married by Rev John Coonts. Their bondsman was Benjamin James. (Shenandoah County, Virginia Marriages) LRG, p.694

His bride was a widow, Mrs Frances "Franky" Young, a daughter of Benjamin And Elizabeth Agnes (Hawkins) Haley who was 1st married to Alexander Wright (Children: Benjamin, John, Alexander, & Elizabeth), and 2nd married to Edwin Young (No Children, but a slew of stepchildren).

William and Franky had one son, Haley Guthrie. His given name is his mother's maiden surname. (FYI: There are multiple errors in the documentation of his name, both original errors and family tree errors resulting in his name being documented as Alie, Eli, Page Eli, Alex, Alexander, Alexander Eli. Paige Alexander Eli, etc. Page was the name of the county in Virginia he was living in at the time of his death.)

High Quality YDNA testing proves direct descendants of Haley's son, William, match the same genetic profile as that of his father William Guthrie. (GFG2A), so those two pieces of the puzzle are verified.

Witness
13 Mar 1798 • Shenandoah County, Virginia, USA
Wm Guthrie is a witness to a transaction between John Moore Jr & Rebecca, his wife, of Shenandoah, and Thomas Jones, shoemaker of same, Land near/at foot of Carrols Mountain on some branches of Smiths Creek.

Revocation of Power of Attorney
23 Jan 1800 • Shenandoah County, Virginia, USA
William Guthrie of Shenandoah revokes power of attorney given March 29 1795 to Isaiah Roberts to transact his business in VA; William is late of York Co., PA, and has now returned to VA. (Chalkey's Abstracts of Augusta Co VA Vol III p217) LRG p694.

The above document also serves as proof that William Guthrie of Augusta Virginia is the same man as William Guthrie of Shenandoah Virginia. It even documents the York County PA connection.

We were also given a DOD of 10 March 1823 in Henry County, KY for this William Guthrie, except that this man never lived there. 'American Guthrie and Allied Families indicates that William Guthrie and his second wife Franky Young "a little later settled in Henry County, KY" in order to explain the Pension Records, but the author missed out on the fact that this William Guthrie died in Shenandoah County, Virginia sometime near the end of 1803 or early 1804.

William Guthrie's estate sale occurred in Shenandoah Virginia on 9 November 1804. Buyers include Widow Guthery, Alexander Wright, Alexander, Benjamin & John Wright, Martin Groves, Daniel & Isaac Strickler, John Payton, John Roads, Joseph Woods & others. (WB-F)

On 9 Dec 1805, at a court held for the County of Shenandoah on Monday 9th day of December 1805 this inventory and appraisement of the Estate of William Guthrie decd was returned and ordered to be recorded. (Will Book F). An account was also recorded Oct 1806 by the administrator, Daniel Strickler.

The evidence showing William Guthrie died 1803-1804 in Shenandoah, VA, proves that he cannot be the same man from Henry County, KY who applied for a Rev. War Pension in 1818, which was approved and paid until his death 10 Mar 1823 at the age of 87 (making his est. DOB 1736).

Property: Dower
Sep 1807 • Shenandoah, Virginia, USA
Bk Q p488 - Sep Court 1807 [PLAT] (The Court) directed John Roads William Marye and Christian Forres have laid off and assigned to Frankey Guthrie late Frankey Young widow and relict of Edwin Young decd her dower of a certain tract of land...142 Acres.

Residence
1830 • Western District, Shenandoah, Virginia, USA
Grouped with the "G" names, Frances Guthrie is the only member of her household, listed at 70 to 80 years of age. Listed next to the household of Haley Guthrie.

William's widow Franky died in Page County, Virginia in 1835. Her estate and probate data are there. There was also a lawsuit by her Young stepchildren back in Shenandoah, VA.

Estate Sale
7 Apr 1835 • Page County, Virginia, USA
A list of property sold at the sale of FRANCES GUTHERY deceased on the 7th day of April 1835.

Lawsuit
15 Sep 1837 • Shenandoah County, Virginia, USA
A lawsuit was brought by John B. Young and others. Statements include: "Frankie Guthrie died in Jun of last"; "Frances Young, widow of Edwin, took her dower in slaves, then she married William Guthrie." Children of Edwin Young listed: John (deceased), Edwin Jr., William, Daniel, Cynthia Burner "Sintha", Elizabeth Johnson, Frances Garing, Nancy Allen.

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The OTHER William Guthrie 1736-1823 (Henry County, KY)

The Appendix of 'American Guthrie and Allied Families', p.693 includes:

127: (Pa. Arch. Ser 2, Vol. 10, p.610) "William Guthery, private, PA. S.T. 35997, Cert No. 15956, Kentucky Agency, Act of March 18, 1818. Age 85 in 1821; died March 10, 1823. Applied for a pension from Henry County, KY, in 1818. Enlisted from York County, PA, in 1777, in Capt. William Alexander's company, General Wade's Brigade. Served until January 1781, when he was honorably discharged. Was in the battles of Brandywife, Paoli, Germantown, and Monmouth. He states in 1820 that his wife is dead, he has not seen his son for several years, and lives with his daughter who has nine children. His property consists of a cow, a calf, and a horse. John Blackburn, who was a lieutenant in Captain James Moore's Company, testified to knowing William Guthrie during the Revolution." (US Pension Record)

"William Guthrie, private, Pennsylvania Line, Aug. 12, 1818, $96, age 87 (at death). Died March 10, 1823 in Henry Co." (Year Book of the Kentucky Society S.A.R. 1896, p.165)

Fold3 - William Guthery - Rev. War Pension File

It is very clear that there was a man named William Guthrie who served as a private enlisting from York County, PA in 1777 until 1781, and then moved to Henry County, KY where his wife died prior to 1820. The original image of his attestation reads, " I have 2 children I have not heard of 5 years, the other a daughter with 9 children, her husband a poor man."

None of this fits the profile for William Guthrie, who initially married Esther McClelland, had 3 sons and 4 daughters with her, married secondly to Franky Haley and had 1 son with her. Franky was alive until 1835.

There is a William Guthrie Household listed in the Henry County, KY Census of 1810 listing 1M and 1F 45 and over. Presumably this William Guthrie's wife was alive in 1810.

Despite living there since at least 1810, William Guthrie does not show up on the Henry County KY Tax List until 1815, when he purchased 136acres on Floyd's Fork on 15 Nov 1815 from Baronet Chastain and wife Sally of Washington County, Indiana Territory for $500.

They only held onto it for a year, selling for a considerable loss. On 18 Nov 1815, William Guthrie of Henry County KY and Catherine his wife of Clark County, IN sold to Stephen Drane of Shelby KY for $112, 136 acres on Floyd Fork.

Note that William Guthrie of Henry County KY was married to a woman named Catherine. She was also living in Clark County, Indiana in 1816. They also purchased the land from people who had moved to Indiana, so there is likely some KY-IN connection going on for this William Guthrie and family that might help in identifying him.

His wife Catherine died prior to 1820 per his statement in the pension application documents.

The Fold3 documents include probate info:
Kentucky, Henry County July Fourth 1823: William Guthry deceased that departed this life intestate, whereupon on motion that John Montgomery be appointed administrator of the said Will Guthry...."

In 1819, John Montgomery had provided an attestation about William Guthry's service in the Rev. War.stating that he had seen his discharge papers several times.

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The lineage in the DAR records is for this William Guthrie, but the Rev War Service and Pension Records for William Guthrie of Henry County, KY belong to a different man. Note that the DAR does not retroactively alter or expunge membership based on new or corrected findings. Descendants and members can apply for corrections to be made, and their database may be able to help with additional information.

See DAR# A048629

GEDCOM Note

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