His parentage is unknown for certain. PLEASE NOTE: (1) Robert de Toni/Tosny Lord of Belvoir (married Adelais) MAY or MAY NOT be the same as (2) Robert de Tosny also known as Robert de Stafford (married Avice de Clare and buried at Evesham Abbey). See notes below.

PLEASE, let's try to keep them separate just to be on the safe side. However, Geni members keep merging them together indiscriminately. --Pam

Please see Katherine S.B. Keats-Rohan's "Belvoir: The Heirs of Robert and Berengar de Tosny" (Prosopon Newsletter, 1998) at http://users.ox.ac.uk/~prosop/prosopon/issue9-1.pdf

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http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc254886805

E. SEIGNEURS de TOSNY...

1. ROBERT [I] de Tosny (-1088).

• Europäische Stammtafeln shows Robert de Tosny unaffiliated with the other members of this family. Although his ancestry is unknown, it is likely that he was a member of this family.
• He founded Marmoutier in 1063[1791].
• Lord of Belvoir 1086.
• “Robertum de Belvedeir---et A[dela]. uxor eius” founded Belvoir priory, Lincolnshire by charter dated to [1076][1792].
• After the death of his wife Adela, Robert de Belvoir donated “land in Sapertune” to Belvoir priory, Lincolnshire, with the consent of "his sons William and Geoffrey"[1793].

m ADELAIS, daughter of --- (-before 1088). “Robertum de Belvedeir---et A[dela]. uxor eius” founded Belvoir priory, Lincolnshire by charter dated to [1076][1794]. “Agnes de Toteneio” confirmed the donation to Belvoir priory, Lincolnshire by "pater meus Robertus de Toteneio et mater mea Adelais", by undated charter[1795].

Robert & his wife had [six] children:

a) GUILLAUME (-[1130]). After the death of his wife Adela, Robert de Belvoir donated “land in Sapertune” to Belvoir priory, Lincolnshire, with the consent of "his sons William and Geoffrey"[1796]. Lord of Belvoir.

b) GEOFFREY . After the death of his wife Adela, Robert de Belvoir donated “land in Sapertune” to Belvoir priory, Lincolnshire, with the consent of "his sons William and Geoffrey"[1797].

c) [ROBERT de Tosny . “Robertus de Toteneia” donated property to Belvoir priory, Lincolnshire, confirmed by "Willielmus de Albeneio frater meus et dominus", by undated charter, witnessed by "…Rogerus Bigot"[1798]. The identity of this Robert de Tosny is uncertain. The document cannot be contemporary as William de Albini was heir of Belvoir through his maternal grandmother Alice, who was the sister of this supposed Robert, so could not have been Robert de Tosny´s brother.]

d) ALICE . Her parentage is indicated by the 1130 Pipe Roll which records "Adeliz uxor Rogi Big…tra patris sui de Belueder" in Lincolnshire[1799]. It is also indicated by the charter dated 23 Apr [1430] under which her descendant “Thomas dominus de Ros, de Hamelake, de Trussebout et de Beavoir” confirmed the possessions of Belvoir priory, Lincolnshire made by "antecessores nostros…Robertum de Toteneio, Willielmum de Toteneyo filium suum, Agnetem de Toteneio filiam dicti Roberti de Toteneyo, Henricum de Rya filium Huberto de Rya, Agnetem de Toteneyo, Willielmum de Albeneio primum, Willielmum de Albeneio secundum, Willielmum de Albeneio tertium, Willielmum de Albeneio quartum, Ywynum de Albeneyo, Heliam de Albeneyo et uxores eorundem, Isabellam filiam domini Willielmi de Albeneio quæ fuit uxor domini de Ros, domini de Beauvoire et de Hamelake"[1800], the connection between Robert de Tosny Lord of Belvoir, father of Alice, being established through the marriage of her daughter Cecilia to William de Albini Brito. "Rogerius Bigot…et uxoris mee Adalicie" donated the church of Thetford to Cluny dated [1100][1801]. “Rogerus Bygot” founded Thetford Priory, with the advice of “…uxoris meæ Adeliciæ”, by undated charter dated to the reign of King Henry I[1802]. Living in 1136[1803]. m (before [1100]%29 as his second wife, ROGER Bigod, son of ROGER Bigod & his wife --- (-8 or 15 Sep 1107, bur Thetford[1804]).

e) AGNES de Tosny (-before 1127). “Agnes de Toteneio” confirmed the donation to Belvoir priory, Lincolnshire by "pater meus Robertus de Toteneio et mater mea Adelais", by undated charter[1805]. Henry I King of England confirmed the donation of "decimas de Hokeringhe, de Swanetuna, de Depham, de Bukestuna, de Mercheshale" by "Hubertus de Ria…Agnes de Belfo uxor eius…cum Ricardo filio suo" to Holy Trinity, Norwich, at the request of "Henrici filii et heredis ipsorum", by charter dated to [1127][1806]. Her second marriage is confirmed by the undated charter under which her son “Henricus de Rya” confirmed the donations to Belvoir priory, Lincolnshire by "Roberti avi mei et Agnetis matris meæ"[1807]. m firstly RALPH de Belfou, son of ---. m secondly HUBERT de Rie, son of HUBERT de Rie & his wife --- (-before 1127).

f) [ALBREDE . “H comes Norfulc” confirmed property to the monks of Kirkstall, for the soul of “Albrede de Insula amite mee”, by charter dated to [1154/76][1808]. If amita is translated strictly in this document, Albrede was the sister of Earl Hugh´s mother. However, it cannot be excluded that she was in fact his paternal aunt. m --- de l´Isle, son of ---.

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[Excellent discussion: from Linley and Jim Hooper's family history (http://www.linleyfh.com/oursecondsite-p/p828.htm) and this family history refers the reader to this source for further information: http://www.scribd.com/share/upload/13583900/2g4elw2zpu5rjkg0rj21. Here we find a book entitled Origin and Early Generations of the Tosny Family by Peter Stewart, written July 2009. This appears to be a most excellent source by a reputable medieval genealogist ]

Robert de Tosny

( - 1088)

    The early Belvoir families: The first Lord of Belvoir, whose sarcophagus now rests at the north-west end of the chapel of Belvoir Castle, Co. Rutland, was Robert de Todeni or Tosny (ob. 1088). There are doubts concerning his place in the Tosny family, but it is probable that he was the brother' of Roger 1 de Tosny (ob.c. 1039), truly the Hereditary Standard Bearer of Normandy whose eldest son, Ralph III de Tosny, Lord of Conches and Seigneur d'Acquigny (ob. 1102), was founder of the great Tony line of Anglo-Norman barons. There is no doubt, however, that Robert was grandfather of Cecily of Belvoir, who carried the great Belvoir fee to her husband, William d'Aubigne (Brito) and their progeny 2 . From this marriage came the Breton Lords of Belvoir, the Earls and Dukes of Rutland, and also the Lords of Daubeney of South Petherton and the Earls of Bridgwater'. Robert's other grand-daughter, Cecily's sister Maud, married William d'Aubigny (now St. Martin d'Aubigny) known as Pincerna, distinguishing him from his sister-in-law's husband Brito; the issue of this marriage became the Albini or Aubigny Earls of Arundel & Sussex'.

Much confusion in the early history of Belvoir arose from the identical naming of Robert's son, William, second Lord of Belvoir, and the Breton Williams who succeeded after Adeliza, Robert's daughter. A perhaps greater confusion, however, followed from the unusual coincidence of the two grand-daughters marrying men from towns with similar names but of different regions. Even the Victorian County History of Bedfordshire gave Joan d'Albini of Cainhoe (ob. 13 10) the escutcheon of the Daubeneys of South Petherton, originating from the Montsorel arms of the Breton Aubigne family, even though she is now clearly seen to be of the Contentin family of Aubigny'.

The first definitive account of the family and pedigree of Robert of Belvoir, correcting the flawed attempts of Dugdale, Nichols, Burke and others, was that of the eminent scholar and genealogist, J. H. Round'. In 1914 Dr Farrer expanded Round's pedigree 6 but neither Round nor Farrer included both daughters of Adeliza de Tosny and Roger Bigod in their family tree charts. It was left to the late Sir Anthony Wagner, Garter King of Arms, to present clearly the link of the Aubignys of the Contentin with the Aubignes of Brittany through the two Bigod grand-daughters of Robert of Belvoir'.

The descent of the Aubigny Earls of Arundel from the marriage of Maud and William d'Aubigny (Pincerna) has been fully presented by the Complete Peerage and Lewis Loyd 4,5, but the descendants of Cecily still present a complex and difficult problem. A great deal of research by C. W. Watson went into the preparation of the Daubeney monograph of the Complete Peerage, which is now being revised. Even so, there were a number of complexities unresolved and the monograph passed very lightly over the Daubeney family of the 12th and early 13th centuries; this is unfortunate, for more than one of the family, receiving mention only, played a significant part in history, not least Philip 1 d'Aubigne who was a great man of his day, serving three successive kings of England with distinction. Watson dealt not at all with the Lords of Belvoir and gave little indication of the close ties between them and the Daubeneys. Robert de Tosny was also known as de Todeni in some records.

    Robert de Tosny married Adelais (?).

Robert died in 1088. He was 1st Lord of Belvoir and his sarcophogus rests at the north-west end of the chapel of Belvoir Castle, co. Rutland.. He was buried at Belvoir?, Rutland, England. Children of Robert de Tosny and Adelais (?)
* Wiliam de Todeni

   * Berenger Todeni d. c 1116

   * Geoffrey Todeni

   * Adeliza Todeni+ d. 26 Nov 1120

=________________________________=

NOTE: Although the following person MAY be the same, these profiles are being kept distinct until more evidence is discovered. For the profile of Robert de Tosny Lord of Stafford, please click here. Please note that while Wikipedia says that he is the son of Roger "Conches/The Spaniard" de Tosny (or alternately of Raoul/Ralph II de Tosny), the scholarly research of the Medieval Lands database (see below) does not support this.

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL2.htm#...

A. STAFFORD FAMILY (TOSNY)

The primary sources which confirm the parentage and marriages of the members of this family have not yet been identified, unless otherwise indicated below.

ROBERT, son of --- de Tosny & his wife --- (-1088, bur [Evesham Abbey]). Robert´s connection with the Tosny family is confirmed by the undated charter under which “Robertus de Stafford” confirmed donations to Wotton Wawen Abbey, Warwickshire by “avus meus Robertus de Toenio et pater meus Nicolaus de Stafford”[295]. His father has not been identified. It is possible that Robert was either the same person as Robert de Tosny (died after 1063), possible son of Raoul [II] de Tosny, or as Robert de Tosny Lord of Belvoir in 1086, whose parentage is not known (see above). ”Robertus de Staffordia et Robertus filius meus et hæres” confirmed donations of property to Evesham Monastery by “Rodbertus avus meus…et pater meus Nicholaus” by undated charter[296].

m [AVICE de Clare], daughter of ---.

Robert & his wife had one children:

1. NICHOLAS de Stafford (-1138 or after, bur Stone Priory). The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Nicolaus fil Rob de Statford" in Staffordshire[297]. “Nicholaus, filius Roberti de Statfort, et Robertus primogenitus et hæres mei” donated Stone priory to Kenilworth by undated charter[298]. ”Robertus de Staffordia et Robertus filius meus et hæres” confirmed donations of property to Evesham Monastery by “Rodbertus avus meus…et pater meus Nicholaus” by undated charter[299]. m MATILDA, daughter of [300][RALPH de Limesey] & his wife --- (-bur Stone). A charter of King Henry II confirmed donations to Stone Priory, among which a donation by “Matildis de Stafford” with the consent of “Roberti de Stafford”, by undated charter[301]. "Matildis de Stafford" granted land in Theddlethorpe, Lincolnshire to "Matildi filie Roberti filii Gilberti filiole mee", with the consent of "Johannis filii mei et Radulfi nepotis mei", by charter dated to the reign of King Henry II, witnessed by "…Willelmo filio Otueri, Rannulfo de Seis, Ingeramo Bagot…"[302]. Nicholas & his wife had two children:

a) ROBERT de Stafford (-[1178/84], bur Stone Priory). “Robertus de Stafford” confirmed donations to Wotton Wawen Abbey, Warwickshire by “avus meus Robertus de Toenio et pater meus Nicolaus de Stafford” by undated charter[303]. The 1156 and 1157 Pipe Rolls record "Robert de Stafford" first in the list under Staffordshire[304]. “Nicholaus, filius Roberti de Statfort, et Robertus primogenitus et hæres mei” donated Stone priory to Kenilworth by undated charter[305]. Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record that "Robertus de Stafford" held one knight´s fee from Richard Bishop of Coventry in Staffordshire, and also record the sixty knights fees held from "Roberti de Staffordia" in Stafford[306]. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Robertus de Stafford lx m" in Staffordshire in [1167/68][307]. ”Robertus de Staffordia et Robertus filius meus et hæres” confirmed donations of property to Evesham Monastery by “Rodbertus avus meus…et pater meus Nicholaus” by undated charter[308]. m AVICE, daughter of --- (-bur Stone). Robert & his wife had three children:

i) ROBERT de Stafford (-[1193/29 Sep 1194]). ”Robertus de Staffordia et Robertus filius meus et hæres” confirmed donations of property to Evesham Monastery by “Rodbertus avus meus…et pater meus Nicholaus” by undated charter[309]. The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1190/91], records "Robertus de Stafford" paying "xxx l, lx milites" in Staffordshire[310]. He was in Jerusalem in 1190. m BASILIA, daughter of --- (-after 1221).

ii) NICHOLAS de Stafford .

iii) MILLICENT de Stafford (-before Jan 1225, bur Stone Priory). “Herveus…dominus de Stafford” confirmed donations to Wotton Wawen Abbey, Warwickshire by “Robertus de Tony et Nicolaus filius suus de Stafford et Robertus filius eius” by undated charter which names “dominus Robertus de Stafford, pater uxoris meæ”[311]. Her name is confirmed by the undated charter under which her son “Willelmus de Stafford filius Hervei Bagot” confirmed donations to the priory of St Thomas, Stafford, with the consent of “fratris mei Hervei Bagot…matris meæ Mylisent”[312]. m (before 1193) HERVEY Bagot, son of --- (-before 25 Aug 1214, bur Stone Priory). He adopted the name “Stafford”.

b) JOHN de Stafford . "Matildis de Stafford" granted land in Theddlethorpe, Lincolnshire to "Matildi filie Roberti filii Gilberti filiole mee", with the consent of "Johannis filii mei et Radulfi nepotis mei", by charter dated to the reign of King Henry II, witnessed by "…Willelmo filio Otueri, Rannulfo de Seis, Ingeramo Bagot…"[313].

c) --- de Stafford . Her parentage and marriage are confirmed by the charter dated to the end-12th century under which "Radulfus de Suleya filius Radulfi de Suleya" confirmed land in Theddlethorpe, Lincolnshire to "Matildi de Hambi" granted to her by "Matildis de Staforda avia sua", and land given to her in the same place by "Haraldus frater eius", another charter which records the same confirmation clarifying "Radulfus de Suleya…Matildis de Estafford avia mea"[314]. m RALPH de Suleye, son of ---. One child:

i) RALPH de Suleye . "Radulfus de Suleya filius Radulfi de Suleya" confirmed land in Theddlethorpe, Lincolnshire to "Matildi de Hambi" granted to her by "Matildis de Staforda avia sua", and land given to her in the same place by "Haraldus frater eius", by charter dated to the end-12th century, another charter which records the same confirmation clarifying "Radulfus de Suleya…Matildis de Estafford avia mea"[315]. It is assumed from these documents that Matilda de Hambye was the wife of Ralph de Suleye, although this is not stated specifically therein. m MATILDA de Hambye, daughter of ---.

2. ALAN de Stafford (-after 1160). The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Alanus de Stafford dimidiam marcam i quartam" in Northamptonshire in [1160/61][316].

3. ROGER de Stafford (-after 1166). Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record that "Rogerus de Staffordia" held land in Dorset from the abbot of St Edward´s[317].

4. JORDAN de Stafford (-after 1166). Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record that "Jordanus de Stafford" held one knight´s fee from "Alvredi de Lincolnia" in Dorset and one from "Willelmi Malech" [Malet] in Somerset[318].

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There is one other "stray" Robert de Tosny who may or may not be the same one. See the third sibling listed below in Cawley's database:

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc254886805

Brother and sister, and one possible additional brother, parents not known. No primary source has yet been found which identifies the parents of these [three] siblings. From a chronological point of view, they could have been the children of Raoul [II] de Tosny. It appears chronologically unlikely that they were the children of Roger [I] de Tosny [Conches]. It is possible that Robert [II] de Tosny was the same person as Robert [I] de Tosny Lord of Belvoir (see above) or Robert [III] de Tosny Lord of Stafford (see below).

1. BERTHE . Her marriage is confirmed by the charter dated [Sep/14 Oct] 1055 under which the monks of Marmoutier record the donations by "quemdam militem…Johannem pagi Cenomannensis indigenum, Widonis de Valle filium" of property "in Normannia, territorio Vilcassino…ecclesiam in villa…Guarniacus…juxta fluvium Eptæ" which "Wido pater eorum" accepted from "uxore sua Berta, Johannis et Haimonis matre"[1833]. Her connection with the Tosny family is confirmed by the charter dated 1063 which records the consent given by "Rotbertum de Toeniaco, avunculum domni Johanni monachi nostri, filii Widonis de Valle" to the donations by the latter to Marmoutier, authorised by "Berengerius filius eius"[1834]. The remaining question is the identity of her father. The date of her marriage is estimated from a charter dated 11 Nov 1039 in which her two grandsons are named (see the document MAINE for further details)[1835]. If this document is correctly dated (but this is open to debate, as discussed further in MAINE), it is extremely unlikely for Berthe to have been the daughter of Roger [I] de Tosny [Conches]. m ([1010/15]%29 as his first wife, GUY [I] Sire de Laval, son of --- (-after 1064).

2. [BERENGER Hespina . The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. His name suggests that he was the brother of Robert [II] de Tosny, whose son is also recorded with the name Berenger. 1050/1066. A charter of King Henry II records donations to York St Mary, including the donation of land “in Lestingeham…Spaunton, in Kyrkeby-Misperton…in Dalby…in Skaldena…in Lyndesey in Bek…in Bynbruc” by “Berengerius de Todeneye”[1836].] m ---. The name of Berenger's wife is not known. Berenger & his wife had one child:

a) BERENGER . The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. A charter of King Henry II records donations to York St Mary, including the donation of land “in Finmara et…in Hunkleby et decimam suam de Dalton et juxta Chevermunt” by “Berengerius de Todenei”[1837].

3. ROBERT [II] de Tosny (-after 1063). His connection with the Tosny family is confirmed by the charter dated 1063 which records the consent given by "Rotbertum de Toeniaco, avunculum domni Johanni monachi nostri, filii Widonis de Valle" to the donations by the latter to Marmoutier, authorised by "Berengerius filius eius"[1838].

m ---. The name of Robert's wife is not known. Robert [II] & his wife had one child:

a) BERENGER (-after 1063). His parentage is confirmed by the charter dated 1063 which records the consent given by "Rotbertum de Toeniaco, avunculum domni Johanni monachi nostri, filii Widonis de Valle" to the donations by the latter to Marmoutier, authorised by "Berengerius filius eius"[1839].

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Robert de Tosny of Belvoir was a collateral of his contemporaries Ralph and Roger. He founded Belvoir priory around the time of the Domesday Book circa 1084.

See "My Lines" ( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p225.htm#i26071 ) from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA ( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )

Katharine S. B. Keats-Rohan (University of Oxford)

extract:

Succession to the fee of Belvoir has been discussed as a problem several times over the years, but perhaps the issue is actually straightforward once one has identified the key players.1 Domesday’s Robert de Tosny of Belvoir was a collateral of his contemporaries Ralph and Roger. By c. 1050+ he had a first-born son Berengar who could expect to succeed his father in Normandy.2 Around the time of Domesday Book, a few years before his death, Robert founded Belvoir priory with his wife Adelais. Early charters of Belvoir mention their sons William and Geoffrey and their daughter Agnes.3 At his death, Robert’s lands were divided between Berengar, his eldest son and Norman heir – co-incidentally an English tenant-in-chief in his own right – and his next son and English heir, William. Presumably some provision was made for the third son Geoffrey. As it happened, all three sons were to die without issue, which meant that rights of succession passed to Robert’s daughters. Copyright © Katharine S. B. Keats-Rohan, 1998

Full article at this address : http://users.ox.ac.uk/~prosop/prosopon/issue9-1.pdf