Christopher Shaw - Who is Christopher´s parents?

Edward Shawe, of Halifax is not the son of Christopher Shaw, different locations. Disconnected.

This area is a mess!

There are no middle names in England or America before about 1700. So already you know you've got a fudged up source.

I would like to see a source that these parents had these children. So far I don't believe it

Sir James Schaw of Sauchie & Christian Bruce

Supposedly the parents of

James Shaw, of Northowram & Edward Shawe, of Halifax

James Shaw, of Yorkshire

Dates & locations look wrong; wives, parents & child looks right

Susan Muir could I ask you to verify dates / locations & correct if wrong ?

From what I have read, these Shaws going back in time from from Abraham Shaw and Bridget Best and Thomas Shaw and Elizabeth Longbotham and Thomas Shaw and Sybil Mason are not connected to this Sir James Shaw of Sauchie & Greenock. I have seen that it was strongly said that Sir James Shaw is not family to the other Shaws named prior right here in my response post here.

Thanks !

Eric Ray

From what I have read, these Shaws going back in time from from Abraham Shaw and Bridget Best and Thomas Shaw and Elizabeth Longbotham and Thomas Shaw and Sybil Mason are not connected to this Sir James Shaw of Sauchie & Greenock. I have seen that it was strongly said that Sir James Shaw is not family to the other Shaws named prior right here in my response post here.

Thanks !

Eric Ray

I think I got the Scots peeled off Thomas Shaw, of Northowram

Hi Erica!
Ha ! Ha !
I don't know how you do it and keep up with all this ? I just happen to find problems with things I guess as i check stuff all the time and in my job each day ! It drains the living life out of me to find errors at times, but I guess I'm good at it and I don't mean to look to find them in others or show anyone up with their info, its just a verify thing for me !
Thanks !
Eric : )

Carl, keep the corrections coming. It's how the tree collaboratively improves.

Private User Writes

The reason I ask, is. because this profile is the son of Christina Bruce, Christian Bruce
and was before I removed the connection, also husband with his mother.

I am looking for any sources here to confirm the last merge. It looks fishy, now that the mother is only 15 when giving birth (even if it would be possible I assume.)

(This was referencing James Shaw, of Northowram)

This is the supposed connection validation:

It is possible to trace a direct line through 25 generations to Robert I of Scotland, perhaps the most colourful of all Scottish kings
Andrew Morton, author of Meghan: A Hollywood Princess
“It is the lineage of Meghan’s gran that can be traced directly to the Scottish royals and more.

“Through her ancestor Roger Shaw, Meghan’s trickle of blue blood was transported to America.”

He added: “The son of a wine merchant in the City of London, Shaw sailed from Plymouth to Massachusetts around 1637.

“Through Shaw’s family, who originated from Yorkshire, we find the link to royalty.

“It was the marriage in 1490 of James Shaw to Christina Bruce, the daughter of Sir David Bruce, 6th Baron of Clackmannan, a direct descendant of Robert the Bruce, that sealed the royal connection.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/940660/meghan-markle-news-prin...

—-

For English & Scots Royalty, and taking on the press, I need Geni’s Big Guns:

Anne Brannen you are summoned.

https://www.geni.com/threads/6000000147436396834 Your assistance totally needed. My first guess is this Bruce girl married a Schaw, not a Shaw, and he was Scots, most English. I say this as a Scots Schaw thanks to your help (but unlikely related to a Bruce!)

——

Johannes Fredrik Steen (who descends) wrote:

PS. Would like to cut this line if it is fake. Don't like fake royal lines (in this case to Scottish kings).

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/QD...

See *Scots Peerage*, vol. III [1906], pp. 468-470. Sir James Shaw of
Sauchie married Christian, daughter of Sir David Bruce of Clackmannan, but
that Sir David was a *grandson* of the Sir David Bruce of Clackmannan who
married Jean Stewart of Lorn. Christian's mother was Mariota, daughter of
John Herries of Terreglas, and she (Christian) appears to have been born in
the 1470s, meaning that she married a later Sir James Shaw than the one who
was the father of Janet, wife of Sir Alexander Edmonstone of Duntreath.

—-

William, thank you for your reply. I've seen the SP entry you
mention; but, I wonder if SP is in error about which Sir David Bruce
of Clackmannan was the father-in-law of which Sir James Shaw of
Sauchie. A Genealogical Tree of the Family of Buchanan of that Ilk
(written in Latin, dated 1602, but based upon earlier documents) was
published by John Guthrie Smith, F. S. A. Scot, in "Strathendrick and
Its Inhabitants from Early Times: An Account of the Parishes of
Kintry, Balfron, Killearn, Drymen, Buchanan, and Kilmaronock,"
(Glasgow: James MacLehose and Sons, Publishers to the University,
1896). That tree shows Sir Alexander Edmonstone of Duntreath [born
about 1455] married Janet Shaw, daughter of Sir James Shaw of Sauchie
and his wife, daughter of Bruce of Clackmannan. The tree contains
errors regarding parents of spouses farther from the central trunk of
the tree, so it may be in error here as well. But, the tree raises
enough doubt about the SP entry to warrant further research. I hope
someone knows of other Shaw of Sauchie and Bruce of Clackmannan
sources, even early charters, which will clarify these generations.
Thanks again,

—-

So Christina Bruce’s husband is somewhere around here

Sir James Schaw of Sauchie

He is temporarily (I hope) this man

Sir James Schaw of Sauchie

And they need their children attached.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Shaw-1328 Has Christian Bruce married a generation earlier, to,

Sir James Schaw of Sauchie

Their narrative

Sir James Shaw was born at of Sauchie, Clackmannanshire, Scotland.[1] Comptroller of the Royal Household to James III He married Christian Bruce, daughter of Sir David Bruce and Marion Herries.

Children

Ellen Shaw
Janet Shaw b. c 1455

Well known connection.

Christian (not Christina; the Scots used Christian as the name, mostly) Bruce married James Schaw of Sauchie.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ve8_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA476&dq=...

Sauchie is in the central Lowlands of Scotland.

https://books.google.com/books?id=wA3mAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA275&dq=...

https://books.google.com/books?id=dvJrTTXnGeAC&pg=PA338&dq=...

The daughter Janet — https://books.google.com/books?id=YNtZAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA8&d...

Their son John — https://books.google.com/books?id=6WzkgXaSSeIC&pg=PA27&dq=j...

Their daughter Helen, married to a Haliburton — https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Haliburton,_4th_Lord_Halibur...

Hope that helps!

But which James Sauchie, father or son? And who were Christian’s children ?

Archibald Edmonstone Is possible son in law For instance but her mother is not mentioned

https://archive.org/stream/genealogicalacco00inedmo#page/34/mode/1up

Janet Schaw

“ See *Scots Peerage*, vol. III [1906], pp. 468-470. Sir James Shaw of
> Sauchie married Christian, daughter of Sir David Bruce of Clackmannan, but
> that Sir David was a *grandson* of the Sir David Bruce of Clackmannan who
> married Jean Stewart of Lorn. Christian's mother was Mariota, daughter of
> John Herries of Terreglas, and she (Christian) appears to have been born in
> the 1470s, meaning that she married a later Sir James Shaw than the one who
> was the father of Janet, wife of Sir Alexander Edmonstone of Duntreath.“
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/QDDWQCx8iio?pli=1

Continued ...

William, thank you for your reply. I've seen the SP entry you
mention; but, I wonder if SP is in error about which Sir David Bruce
of Clackmannan was the father-in-law of which Sir James Shaw of
Sauchie. A Genealogical Tree of the Family of Buchanan of that Ilk
(written in Latin, dated 1602, but based upon earlier documents) was
published by John Guthrie Smith, F. S. A. Scot, in "Strathendrick and
Its Inhabitants from Early Times: An Account of the Parishes of
Kintry, Balfron, Killearn, Drymen, Buchanan, and Kilmaronock,"
(Glasgow: James MacLehose and Sons, Publishers to the University,
1896). That tree shows Sir Alexander Edmonstone of Duntreath [born
about 1455] married Janet Shaw, daughter of Sir James Shaw of Sauchie
and his wife, daughter of Bruce of Clackmannan. The tree contains
errors regarding parents of spouses farther from the central trunk of
the tree, so it may be in error here as well. But, the tree raises
enough doubt about the SP entry to warrant further research. I hope
someone knows of other Shaw of Sauchie and Bruce of Clackmannan
sources, even early charters, which will clarify these generations.
Thanks again,

“ See *Scots Peerage*, vol. III [1906], pp. 468-470. Sir James Shaw of
> Sauchie married Christian, daughter of Sir David Bruce of Clackmannan, but
> that Sir David was a *grandson* of the Sir David Bruce of Clackmannan who
> married Jean Stewart of Lorn. Christian's mother was Mariota, daughter of
> John Herries of Terreglas, and she (Christian) appears to have been born in
> the 1470s, meaning that she married a later Sir James Shaw than the one who
> was the father of Janet, wife of Sir Alexander Edmonstone of Duntreath.“
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/QDDWQCx8iio?pli=1

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Shaw-710 places Elizabeth Schaw of Sauchie as child of Alison Hume

I am baffled by this family.

Here’s a chart.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000147622277906

And i don’t see Christian Bruce in the “Schaw of Sauchie” article (or Elizabeth the Kings Mistress)

https://archive.org/details/anent1884/page/118/mode/1up?q=john+schaw+

By the way, Meghan Markle has English Royal descent identified, but not Scots:

https://www.americanancestors.org/Royal-Ancestry-of-Meghan-Markle.aspx

I’m confused about “when” Christian Bruce married James Shaw of Sauchie, because Allison Home, supposed 1st wife, is his wife in 1506, 1508, 1526. https://archive.org/details/anent1884/page/107/mode/1up

I’m inclining to think Christian Bruce was a wife of Sir James Schaw of Sauchie rather than his grandson; either that or she’s a 1st / 2nd wife, with Alison Hume as the 2nd / 3rd wife (as of 1506 and still living in 1526). But if Christian was born in the 1470s, and married the grandson Sir James in 1590, she probably wasn’t the mother of his known sons.

The dates are killing me. Need more opinions.

I did find James Murray of Falahill in this tree - his wife was Jonet Forrester and her first husband Was John Schaw of Alva and Knockhill.

So, Private User can we figure out which James Schaw Christian Bruce married?

Christian Bruce is said to have married James Schaw of Sauchie but for want of evidence it is not possible to say which James Schaw was her husband.

https://archive.org/details/scotspeeragefoun03paul/page/471/mode/1up

[https://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/bb4fz/bruce03.php

According to Major William Bruce Armstrong, writing in his account of the Bruce Earls of Elgin and Aylesbury for Sir James Balfour Paul’s edition of the Scots Peerage [Volume III page 471], Christian Bruce is the daughter of Sir David Bruce of Clackmannan and Mariota Herries. He cites George Crawford’s manuscript history of the Bruce family (1744) as the source of this information.

https://archive.org/details/scotspeeragefoun03paul/page/471/mode/1up

I have been unable to identify Christian Bruce in secondary record evidence but her putative parents are noticed in a charter dated 29 November 1490 by which David Bruce of Clackmannan confirms that he has given certain land in the barony of Rait to the monks of Scone. The gift is made for the salvation of his own soul and that of his wife Mariote Heries. [RMS 1424-1513: charter number 2031].

https://archive.org/details/registrummagnisi02scot/page/427/mode/1up

They are noticed again on 11 September 1497 in a charter by which James IV, King of Scots, confirmed possession of the baronies of Clackmannan and Rait to David Bruce, son of David Bruce of Clackmannan. David Bruce senior had previously resigned these lands in favour of his son. He reserved his own liferent and that of his wife Mariote Herriis. [RMS 1424-1513: charter number 2372].

https://archive.org/details/registrummagnisi02scot/page/505/mode/1up