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About Thierry I, count of Autun
Do not confuse him with Makhir, the Jewish Prince, or with Théodéric IV of Austrasia,King of the Franks (?-737) or Aymeri de Narbonne, the fictional father of the fictional counterpart of Thierry's son Guillaume de Gellone.
Theuderic (or Thierry or Teiric) was Count of Autun, and Count of Toulouse (771). His ancestry is not attested by contemporary sources. Traditionally, he was held to have been of Merovingian descent, son of either Bernarius and Chrodelinde (Moriarty, Stuart), or of Childébrand, Duke of Burgundy, and Rolande.
In some modern literature he is confused with Théodéric IV, King of the Franks (?-737). See, for example, Michael of Albany and Walid Amine Salhab, The Knights Templar of the Middle East (San Francisco, 2006), 52.
Some scholars think Theuderic was connected in some way with the Jewish dynasty of exilarchs at Narbonne, perhaps identical with with Makhir, a Jewish prince who came from Iraq to serve as leader of the Jewish community at Narbonne. Zuckerman suggested Makhir was identical with Natronai ben Habibai, while others believe Makhir was more likely Natronai's younger brother. According to Zuckerman, he adopted the Frankish name Theuderic (Thierry) when he married into the Frankish royal family. In later romance he was called Aymery.
Zuckerman's theory is widely rejected by historians.
From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page (including his parents and brother's family): http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKISH%20NOBILITY.htm#TheodericIA... & http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/burgdautun.htm
THEODERIC [I], son of --- (-[791/15 Dec 804]). The origin of Comte Theoderic is not known. An interesting speculation is a relationship with the early Saxon leader Widukind, as explained above. Comte d'Autun. Einhard indicates that Theoderich was related to Charles I King of the Franks when he records that in 782 the king sent his three missi "Adalgiso camerario et Geilone comite stabuli et Worado comite palati" to meet "in…Saxonis…Theodericus comes, propinquus regis"[411], the relationship probably being through the wife of Theoderic [I] (see below). "Carolus…rex Francorum et Langobardorum" gave a judgment by charter dated to [Dec 775] which names "fidelibus…Widrigo, Odrigo, Theodrico, Bernehardo, Albuino, Aginhardo, Berngario comitibus et Anshelmo comite palacii nostri"[412]. Einhard records that Charles I King of the Franks sent "Theodorico comite et Meginfredo camerario suo" to "aquilonalem Danubii ripam" in 791[413]. "Willelmus…comes" names "genitore meo Theuderico et genitrice mea Aldana" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[414].
m ALDANA, daughter of ---. "Willelmus…comes" names "genitore meo Theuderico et genitrice mea Aldana" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[415]. Settipani quotes an Aquitaine necrology which lists "Willelmus…pater eius Theodericus, mater Aldana soror Hiltrudis et Landradæ"[416]. He suggests that "Hiltrudis" was the wife of Odilo Duke of Bavaria, and therefore that the wife of Theoderic was Aldana, daughter of Charles "Martel" maiordomus of Austrasia and Neustria [Carolingian]. The theory is attractive but not conclusive, as its validity depends on there being no other contemporary Hiltrudis, which is not provable. Hlawitschka highlights the case against the affiliation[417]. However, the evidence of the 25 May 765 charter, quoted in the document MEROVINGIAN NOBILITY under Aldana’s supposed sister Landrada, suggests that Settipani’s hypothesis may be correct. In addition, Einhard indicates that Theoderic [I] was related to Charles I King of the Franks when he records that in 782 King Charles sent his three missi "Adalgiso camerario et Geilone comite stabuli et Worado comite palati" to meet "in…Saxonis…Theodericus comes, propinquus regis"[418]. One possible relationship being between the king and Theoderic [I] would have been through his wife, if she had been the king's paternal aunt.
Theoderic [I] & his wife had [seven] children:
1. TEUDOIN (-826 or after). "Willelmus…comes" names "fratribus meis Theudoino et Adalelmo" (version two: "fratre meo Teodoino et Teoderico et Adalelmo") in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[419]. Comte d'Autun 804/26. m ---. The name of the wife of Teudoin is not known.
a) THEODERIC [III] (-[after 826]). 816/21. Theoderic is named as son of Teudoin in Europäische Stammtafeln[420] but the primary source on which this is based has not been identified. The Manual of Dhuoda names "domnus Teodericus…condam" as godfather of Doda's son Bernard (born in 826), although it does not specify a family relationship between the two[421]. Of the three possible individuals in the family named Theoderic, Theoderic [II] is a less likely possibility because of his presumed age. Theoderic [IV] is named in another section of the Manual, without any reference to his being Bernard's godfather. Theoderic [III] therefore appears the most likely possibility.
2. THEODERIC [II] (-after 14 Dec 804, maybe after 811). "Willelmus…comes" names "fratribus meis Theudoino et Adalelmo" (version two: "fratre meo Teodoino et Teoderico et Adalelmo") in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone, Theoderic being named in only one of the versions365. [Einhard's Annales record "Theotheri comes" as one of the signatories of peace with the Vikings in 811[422]. It is not certain that the signatory was Theoderic [II].]
3. ADALELM . "Willelmus…comes" names "fratribus meis Theudoino et Adalelmo" (version two: "fratre meo Teodoino et Teoderico et Adalelmo") in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone365.
4. NN [--- . m ---.] One possible child:
a) [BERTRAND . "Willelmus…comes" names "nepote meo Bertranno" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone365. There is no more precise indication of the relationship between Guillaume and Bertrand although, if nepos is in this context correctly translated as nephew, Bertrand must have been the son of a brother or sister of Guillaume who is not otherwise named in the charter, presumably deceased at the time.]
5. GUILLAUME ([750/55]-Gellone [28 May [812/13]/21 May 815]). Comte de Toulouse, Marquis de Septimanie. "Willelmus…comes" names "genitore meo Theuderico et genitrice mea Aldana" and "fratribus meis Theudoino et Adalelmo" (version two: "fratre meo Teodoino et Teoderico et Adalelmo") "sororibus meis Albana et Bertana" "filiabus meis et filiis Barnardo, Witchario, Gotcelmo, Helimbruch" (version two: "filios meos et filias Witcario, Hildehelmo et Helinbruch") "uxoribus meis Cunegunde et Guitburge" (version two: "Witburg et Cunegunde") "nepote meo Bertranno" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[423].
- see below.
6. ABBA[Albana] (-after 804). "Willelmus…comes" names "sororibus meis Albana et Bertana" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[424]. The Vita S. Willelmi records that “beatus Willelmus” had “duæ sorores virgines…Albana…Bertana”[425]. Nun in 804. [m NIBELUNG [II], son of [NIBELUNG [I] Count in Burgundy & his wife --- (-after 805). Settipani highlights the onomastic connections between the family of St Guillaume and the family of Nibelung, suggested by the names Bernard and Theoderic borne by the possible descendants of Nibelung [II][426]. He suggests that, if there was a connection between the two families, it would most likely have been through the wife of Nibelung [II] who could have been either Abba or Berta, sisters of St Guillaume. There is, however, no indication at all of the first name of the wife of Nibelung [II]. This would of course be incorrect if the connection was through either Abba's father or mother, as referred to above. The other difficulty with this hypothesis is that the Vita S. Willelmi implies that Guillaume’s sisters remained unmarried when it records that he had “duæ sorores virgines…Albana…Bertana”[427].]
7. BERTA [Bertana]. "Willelmus…comes" names "sororibus meis Albana et Bertana" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[428].
From the French Wikipedia page on Thierry I d'Autun:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Ier_d'Autun
Thierry Ier d'Autun est un comte d'Autun du VIIIe siècle de la famille des Guilhemides.
Origine
Aucun document ne mentionne son ascendance. La présence dans sa descendance des prénoms de Bernard, Thierry et Rolande a conduit en 1965 Eduard Hlawitschka à rapprocher les premiers Guilhemides de la famille de Bertrade de Prüm. En effet, cette dernière fonde l'abbaye de Prüm en 721, et, parmi les signataires de l'acte de la fondation, figurent son fils Caribert et ses proches parents Rolande, Bernhar et Thierry. Les historiens admettent que Rolande et Bernhar sont mariés ensemble et père de Thierry, lequel est chronologiquement le père de Thierry Ier, comte d'Autun. Reste à évaluer la parenté entre Rolande et Berthe. Pierre Riché les considère comme sœurs et filles du sénéchal Hugobert et d'Irmina d'Oeren, tandis que Chritian Settipani considère que Rolande est fille de Bertrade[1],[2].
Biographie
Thierry est cité comme comte d'Autun à plusieurs reprises en 742 et 750[2]. En 775, un jugement rendu par Charlemagne le nomme parmi les fidèles du roi[3]. En 782, Eginhard le qualifie de parent du roi (Charlemagne). Il décède après cette date[3],[2].
Mariage et enfants
Il a épousé Alda, probablement fille de Charles Martel, duc des Francs, qui donne naissance à :
1. Theoden (ou Teudoin) († ap.826), comte d'Autun, cité en 804[3]
2. Thierry, cité en 782[4],[2] et en 804[3].
3. Alleaume (ou Adalhelm)[4],[3].
4. Guillaume (ou Guilhem)[4],[2], comte de Toulouse et fondateur, en 804, de l'abbaye de Saint-Guilhem-le-Désert. Bien plus tard (vers le XIIe siècle), ce dernier sera renommé Guillaume d’Orange dans un des grands cycles épiques du Moyen Age.
5. Abba et Berta, citées comme religieuse en 804. L'une d'elles a probablement épousé un Nibelungide, Childebrand II ou Nibelung II[5].
Notes et références
1.↑ Riché 1983, p. 350 (tableau III).
2.↑ a, b, c, d et e Settipani 1993, p. 173-6.
3.↑ a, b, c, d et e Foundation for Medieval Genealogy [archive].
4.↑ a, b et c Riché 1983, p. 369, tab. XXIII.
5.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 344-5.
Bibliographie
1. Pierre Riché, Les Carolingiens, une famille qui fit l'Europe, Hachette, coll. « Pluriel », Paris, 1983 (réimpr. 1997), 490 p. (ISBN 2-01-278851-3)
2. Christian Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, vol. 1), éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993 (ISBN 2-9501509-3-4)
3. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy : Carolingian Nobility (Families of Nibelung, Childebrand and Theodoric)
In English:
Thierry I d'Autun was a Comte d'Autun of the 8th century, in the family of Guilhemides.
Origin
There is no record of his descent. The presence of his name in the lineage of Bernard, Thierry and Rolande led Eduard Hlawitschka in 1965 to suggest that Bertrada de Prum belonged to the Guilhemides. Indeed, Bertrada founded the Abbey of Prum in 721, and among the signatories of the act of foundation was her son Caribart, and his kin Rolande, Bernhar, and Thierry.
Historians agree that Rolande and Bernhar were married, and that Thierry was father, chronologically the father of Thierry I, Comte d'Autun. The relationship between Rolande and Bertha remains to be evaluated. Pierre Riche has them as sisters, and the daughters of Seneschal Hugobert and Irmina of Oeren, while Christian Settipani considers Rolando to be the daughter of Bertrade [1][2].
Biography:
Thierry was cited as Comte d'Autun repeated between 742 and 750 [2]. In 775, a decision was made by Charlemagne to make him a member of the King's court [3]. In 782, Einhard cites that he is described as a relative of the King (Charlemagne). He died afterward. [3][2]
Marriage and Children
He married Alda, probably the daughter of Charles Martel, Duke of the Franks, who gave birth to:
1. Theoden (or Teudoin, d. c.826), Comte d'Autun, cited in 804 [3]
2. Thierry, cited in 782 [4][2] and 804 [3]
3. Alleaume (or Adalhelm) [4][3]
4. Guillaume (or Guilhem) [4][2], Comte de Toulouse and founder (in 804) of the Abbey of St-Guilhem-le-Desert. Much later (around the 12th century), he will be renamed William of Orange in a major epic cycle of the Middle Ages.
5. Abba and Berta, cited as nuns in 804. One of them was probably married to the Nibelungids, Childebrand II or Nibelung II [5].
------------------------------
From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on Carolingian Nobility:
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKISH%20NOBILITY.htm#TheodericIA...
The common connection with Autun, and the common use of the name "Theoderic", suggest that the following family was closely related to the family of Nibelung and Childebrand. If this is correct, the only possibility from a chronological point of view is that either Theoderic [I] or his wife was the child of Nibelung [I].
A different speculation is that Theoderic [I] may have been related to the early Saxon leader Widukind (see SAXONY), in whose family references have been found to "Theoderich". The presence of Comte Theoderic, whom it seems likely was the same person as Theoderic [I], in Saxony as recorded by Einhard in 782 (see below) suggests that he may have been acting in some official capacity for the Franks, maybe because of his prior connection with Saxony.
It is not impossible that Theoderic was one of the Saxon leaders who surrendered to Charles I King of the Franks in 777 and was rewarded with appointments at the royal court. If this speculation is correct, the name Theoderic may have entered the Nibelung/Childebrand family through Dunna, the wife of Childebrand [III], whose origin is unknown.
A third possibility is that Theoderic was a Frankish name which predated the Carolingian conquest of Saxony, as shown by the charter dated 8 Jul 753 under which "Pippinus rex Francorum" confirmed rights to market customs duties of the abbey of Saint-Denis by charter dated 8 Jul 753 which names "fidelibus…Theuderico…"[347].
THEODERIC [I], son of --- (-[791/15 Dec 804]).
The origin of Comte Theoderic is not known. An interesting speculation is a relationship with the early Saxon leader Widukind, as explained above.
Comte d'Autun. Einhard indicates that Theoderich was related to Charles I King of the Franks when he records that in 782 the king sent his three missi "Adalgiso camerario et Geilone comite stabuli et Worado comite palati" to meet "in…Saxonis…Theodericus comes, propinquus regis"[348], the relationship probably being through the wife of Theoderic [I].
"Carolus…rex Francorum et Langobardorum" gave a judgment by charter dated to [Dec 775] which names "fidelibus…Widrigo, Odrigo, Theodrico, Bernehardo, Albuino, Aginhardo, Berngario comitibus et Anshelmo comite palacii nostri"[349]. Einhard records that Charles I King of the Franks sent "Theodorico comite et Meginfredo camerario suo" to "aquilonalem Danubii ripam" in 791[350]. "Willelmus…comes" names "genitore meo Theuderico et genitrice mea Aldana" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[351].
m ALDANA, daughter of ---.
"Willelmus…comes" names "genitore meo Theuderico et genitrice mea Aldana" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[352].
Settipani quotes an Aquitaine necrology which lists "Willelmus…pater eius Theodericus, mater Aldana soror Hiltrudis et Landradæ"[353]. He suggests that "Hiltrudis" was the wife of Odilo Duke of Bavaria, and therefore that the wife of Theoderic was Alda, daughter of Charles "Martel" maiordomus of Austrasia and Neustria [Carolingian]. The theory is attractive but not conclusive, as its validity depends on there being no other contemporary Hiltrudis, which is not provable. Hlawitschka highlights the case against the affiliation[354].
However, the evidence of the 25 May 765 charter, quoted in the document MEROVINGIAN NOBILITY under Aldana´s supposed sister Landrada, suggests that Settipani´s hypothesis may be correct. In addition, Einhard indicates that Theoderic [I] was related to Charles I King of the Franks when he records that in 782 King Charles sent his three missi "Adalgiso camerario et Geilone comite stabuli et Worado comite palati" to meet "in…Saxonis…Theodericus comes, propinquus regis"[355].
One possible relationship being between the king and Theoderic [I] would have been through his wife, if she had been the king's paternal aunt.
Theoderic [I] & his wife had [seven] children:
1. TEUDOIN (-826 or after). Comte d'Autun 804/26.
m ---. The name of the wife of Teudoin is not known.
a) THEODERIC [III] (-[after 826]). 816/21.
Theoderic is named as son of Teudoin in Europäische Stammtafeln[357] but the primary source on which this is based has not been identified. The Manual of Dhuoda names "domnus Teodericus…condam" as godfather of Doda's son Bernard (born in 826), although it does not specify a family relationship between the two[358]. Of the three possible individuals in the family named Theoderic, Theoderic [II] is a less likely possibility because of his presumed age. Theoderic [IV] is named in another section of the Manual, without any reference to his being Bernard's godfather. Theoderic [III] therefore appears the most likely possibility.
2. THEODERIC [II] (-after 811). Einhard's Annales record "Theotheri comes" as one of the signatories of peace with the Vikings in 811[359].
3. ADALELM .
4. [--- . m ---.] One possible child:
a) [BERTRAND . There is no more precise indication of the relationship between Guillaume and Bertrand although, if nepos is in this context correctly translated as nephew, Bertrand must have been the son of a brother or sister of Guillaume who is not otherwise named in the charter, presumably deceased at the time.]
5. GUILLAUME ([750/55]-Gellone [28 May [812/13]/21 May 815]). Comte de Toulouse, Marquis de Septimanie.
6. ABBA [Albana] (-after 804). Nun in 804.
[m NIBELUNG [II], son of [NIBELUNG [I] Count in Burgundy & his wife --- (-after 805). Settipani highlights the onomastic connections between the family of St Guillaume and the family of Nibelung, suggested by the names Bernard and Theoderic borne by the possible descendants of Nibelung [II][363]. He suggests that, if there was a connection between the two families, it would most likely have been through the wife of Nibelung [II] who could have been either Abba or Berta, sisters of St Guillaume. There is, however, no indication at all of the first name of the wife of Nibelung [II]. This would of course be incorrect if the connection was through either Abba's father or mother, as referred to above. The other difficulty with this hypothesis is that the Vita S. Willelmi implies that Guillaume´s sisters remained unmarried when it records that he had “duæ sorores virgines…Albana…Bertana”[364].]
7. BERTA [Bertana].
According to the French Wikipedia page on Thierry I d'Autun:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Ier_d%27Autun
Thierry Ier d'Autun est un comte d'Autun du VIIIe siècle de la famille des Guilhemides.
Origine
Aucun document ne mentionne son ascendance. La présence dans sa descendance des prénoms de Bernard, Thierry et Rolande a conduit en 1965 Eduard Hlawitschka à rapprocher les premiers Guilhemides de la famille de Bertrade de Prüm. En effet, cette dernière fonde l'abbaye de Prüm en 721, et, parmi les signataires de l'acte de la fondation, figurent son fils Caribert et ses proches parents Rolande, Bernhar et Thierry. Les historiens admettent que Rolande et Bernhar sont mariés ensemble et père de Thierry, lequel est chronologiquement le père de Thierry Ier, comte d'Autun. Reste à évaluer la parenté entre Rolande et Berthe. Pierre Riché les considère comme sœurs et filles du sénéchal Hugobert et d'Irmina d'Oeren, tandis que Chritian Settipani considère que Rolande est fille de Bertrade[1],[2].
Biographie
Thierry est cité comme comte d'Autun à plusieurs reprises en 742 et 750[2]. En 775, un jugement rendu par Charlemagne le nomme parmi les fidèles du roi[3]. En 782, Eginhard le qualifie de parent du roi (Charlemagne). Il décède après cette date[3],[2].
Mariage et enfants
Il a épousé Alda, probablement fille de Charles Martel, duc des Francs, qui donne naissance à :
1. Theoden (ou Teudoin) († ap.826), comte d'Autun, cité en 804[3]
2. Thierry, cité en 782[4],[2] et en 804[3].
3. Alleaume (ou Adalhelm)[4],[3].
4. Guillaume (ou Guilhem)[4],[2], comte de Toulouse et fondateur, en 804, de l'abbaye de Saint-Guilhem-le-Désert. Bien plus tard (vers le XIIe siècle), ce dernier sera renommé Guillaume d’Orange dans un des grands cycles épiques du Moyen Age.
Abba et Berta, citées comme religieuse en 804. L'une d'elles a probablement épousé un Nibelungide, Childebrand II ou Nibelung II[5].
Notes et références
1.↑ Riché 1983, p. 350 (tableau III).
2.↑ a, b, c, d et e Settipani 1993, p. 173-6.
3.↑ a, b, c, d et e Foundation for Medieval Genealogy [archive].
4.↑ a, b et c Riché 1983, p. 369, tab. XXIII.
5.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 344-5.
Bibliographie
Pierre Riché, Les Carolingiens, une famille qui fit l'Europe, Hachette, coll. « Pluriel », Paris, 1983 (réimpr. 1997), 490 p. (ISBN 2-01-278851-3)
Christian Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, vol. 1), éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993 (ISBN 2-9501509-3-4)
Foundation for Medieval Genealogy : Carolingian Nobility (Families of Nibelung, Childebrand and Theodoric)
In English:
Thierry I d'Autun was a Comte d'Autun of the 8th century, from the family Guilhemides.
Origin:
There is no record of his parentage. The presence of names in his lineage to Bernaud, Thierry, and Rolande led Eduard Hlawitschka to first suggest in 1965 that he was from the Guilhemides family of Bertrade de Prum. In effect, Bertrade founded the Abbey of Prum in 721, and among the signatories of the act of foundation is his son Caribert and his kin Rolande, Bernhar, and Thierry.
Historians agree that Rolande and Bernhar are married, and father Thierry, who is chronologically the father of Thierry I, Comte d'Autun. It remains to be evaluated the relationship between Rolande and Bertha. Pierre Riche has them as sisters and daughters of the Seneschal Hugobert and Irmina d'Oeren, while Christian Settipani considers that Rolande is the daughter of Bertrade.
Biography:
Thierry was documented as the Comte d'Autun repeatedly in 742 and 750. In 775, a decision made by Charlemagne made him among the followers of himself, the King. In 782, Eginhard describes his relationship with the King (Charlemagne). He dies shortly after.
Marriage and children:
He married Alda, probably the daughter of Charles Martel, Duke of the Franks, who gave birth to:
1. Theoden (or Teudouin) d. c. 826, Comte d'Autun, cited in 804.
2. Theirry, cited in 782, and in 804.
3. Alleaume (or Adalhelm)
4. Guillaume (or Guilhem), Comte de Toulouse and founder in 804 the Abbey of St-Guilhem-le-Desert. Much later (around the 12th century), the latter will be renamed by William of Orange in the major epic cycles of the Middle Ages.
5. Abba and Berta, cited as nuns in 804. One of them was probably married into the Nibelungids, either Childebrand II or Nibelung II.
From the French Wikipedia page on the Guilhemides:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilhemides
La famille des Guilhelmides ou Wilhelmides est un lignage de la noblesse franque du VIIIe et Xe siècles proche de la famille carolingienne. Initialement implantée dans la région d'Autun, elle s'étend ensuite en Septimanie (Aquitaine et Languedoc). Cette famille tient son nom de Guillaume de Gellone, son représentant le plus célèbre, mais les prénoms de Thierry et Bernard sont les plus fréquents dans cette famille.
Histoire de la famille
Origine
Le premier représentant certain de la famille est Thierry, cité comme comte d'Autun en 742 et en 750. Il est marié à Alda, probablement[1] fille de Charles Martel, duc des Francs. La présence dans sa descendance des prénoms de Thierry, Bernard, Heribert et Rolande a conduit en 1965 Eduard Hlawitschka à rapprocher les premiers Guilhemides de la famille de Bertrade de Prüm. En effet, lorsque cette dernière fonde l'abbaye de Prüm, elle signe l'acte de fondation en présence de son fils Caribert (= Heribert) et de ses proches parents Rolande, Bernhar et Thierry[2].
Les comtes d'Autun
Le premier fief de la famille, Autun, est confié aux Guilhemides avant l'arrivée des Carolingiens à la royauté, puisque Thierry Ier est déjà comte en 742. Bien que la branche issue de son fils aîné s'éteigne au bout de deux générations, la ville est tenue jusqu'en 873 par des descendants issus de branches cadettes, pourtant établies dans le sud du royaume franc, avec parfois des alternances avec des comtes de la famille Nibelungide, que l'onomastique désigne comme apparentée aux Nibelungides.
L'Aquitaine et la Septimanie
A la suite de la bataille de Roncevaux, Charlemagne perd la confiance de Chorson, comte de Toulouse et nomme son cousin Guillaume à sa place[3]. Cette nomination marque le début de l'implantation des Guilhemides dans le sud de la Gaule, en Aquitaine et en Septimanie, le futur Languedoc. À partir du règne de Louis le Pieux, son fils Bernard de Septimanie tire parti de la révolte des fils de l'empereur, puis des luttes qui suivent le partage de Verdun en 843 pour se constituer une principauté en Catalogne et en Septimanie[4]. Son œuvre est poursuivie par son fils Bernard Plantevelue[5]. Le fils de ce dernier, Guillaume le Pieux, perd le Toulousain et le Languedoc, mais domine l'Aquitaine, et la mort sans héritier de ses neveux laisse ce duché à une lignée rivale, les Ramnulfides, implantés dans le Poitou[6].
Le comté de Poitiers
En 815, l'empereur Louis le Pieux confie le comté de Poitiers à un de ses fidèles, nommé Bernard, qui assure cette charge au moins jusqu'en en 825. En 828, c'est un comte du nom d'Émenon qui est nommé à Poitiers[7]. Cet Émenon est considéré comme appartenant à la famille des Guilhemides, même si les historiens ne s'accordent pas sur la façon dont il se rattache à cette famille : certain le disent fils d'Adalhelm ou Alleaume[8], d'autre le disent fils du comte Bernard Ier de Poitiers, lui même fils d'Adalhelm ou Alleaume[9]. Les membres de la famille d'Émenon tentent ensuite de s'implanter à Poitiers et à Troyes, mais ils seront évincés de Troyes en 894 par le duc de Bourgogne Richard le Justicier, et de Poitiers en 902 par Ebles Manzer, un Ramnulfides[10].
In English:
The family of Guilhelmides or Wilhelmides is a lineage of Frankish nobility of the 8th and 10th centuries, and closely associated with the Carolingians. Originally established in the region of Autun, it extended to Septimania (Aquitaine and Languedoc). This family takes its name from William Gellone, its most famous member, but the names of Theirry and Bernaud are the most frequent from this family.
Family History
Origin:
The first representative of the family is a certain Thierry, cited as the Comte d'Autun in 742 and 750. He is married to Alda, probably the daughter of Charles Martel, Duke of hte Franks. The presence of the names in his lineage of Theirry, Bernard, Heribert, and Rolande led Eduard Hlawitschka in 1965 to assign the Guilhemides family to Bertrade de Prum. In effect, when the latter founded the Abbey of Prum, he signed the deed of foundation to his son Caribert (Heribert), and his relatives Rolande, Bernhar, and Thierry.
The Comtes d'Autun
The first stronghold of the family, Autun, was entrusted to the Guilhemides before the arrival of the Carolingians as royalty, as Thierry I is already count by 742. Although the lineage of his eldest son goes extinct after two generations, the city is held in 873 by the offspring of younger branches, yet located in the south of the Frankish kingdom, sometimes alternating as counts with the family of the Nibelungids.
Aquitaine and Septimania
Following the Battle of Roncesvalles, Charlemagne loses confidence in Chorson, Comte de Toulouse, and appoints his cousin Guillaume in his place. This appointment marks the beginning of the rise of the Guilhemides in southern Gual, Aquitaine, and Septimania, the future Languedoc region. From the reign of Louis the Pious, his son Bernard Septimanie takes advantage of the revolt of the son of the emperor, then after the Battle of Verdun in 843 establishes a principality in Catalonia and Septimania. His work was continued by his son Bernard Plantapilosa. The son of the latter, Guillaume the Pious, loses Toulouse and Languedoc, but dominates the Aquitaine, and his death without any heirs of his nephew leaves the duchy in the hands of a rival family, the Ramnulfids, located in Poitou.
The County of Poitiers:
In 815, Emperor Louis the Pious places the County of Poitiers into the hands of his follower Bernaud, which remains in that office until at least 825. In 828, there is a count named Emenon who is appointed to Poitiers. Emenon is regarded as belonging to the family of Guilhemides, though historians disagree on his relationship within the family: some say he is the son of Adalhelm or Alleaume, and others say he is the son of Bernard I, Comte de Poitiers, himself the son of Adalhelm or Alleaume. The family members of Emenon then try to set up in Poitiers and in Troyes, but they will be evicted from Troyes in 894 by the Duke of Burgundy Richard le Justicier, and from Poitiers in 902 by Eblas Manzer, a Ramnulfide.
Count Theodoric of Septimania I [Parents] was born about 720 in Babylonia, Persia. He died before 804. He married Auda Martel.
The name "Machir," comes from Genesis 50:23, used by R. Machir, in Iraq, and Narbonne, France; 8th-9th century.1 Theodoric I of Septimania was received by Charlemagne and was given the title "King of the Jews".2 His ancestry is possibly one of the greatest lineages of antiquity. Theodoric, claimed (or others do for him) descent not only from the Merovingian Kings, but lineal descent from King David himself. Both the king and the Pope acknowledged this pedigree. Also called Makhir Natronai ben Habibi the Resh Galuta.3 Exilarch of Narbonne in Septimania.4 Also called Rabbi Makir ha-David.2 Also called Dietrich. He was born circa 720 in Babylonia, Persian Empire. He was the son of Habibai beni David (David Descent Tradition) .5 He married Alda des Francs, daughter of Carolus Martellus, dux Francorum and Chrothais , a concubine , before 740.6,7 Count in 742.8 "The evidence is sketchy and muddled at this distance, but a persistant account of Theodoric I has it that he was the Jewish Exilarch in Narbonne, and that he succeeded in establishing a regionally autonomous Jewish-led state around Narbonne. Makhir has been identified as being Makhir Natronai, Resh Galuta in Baghdad, ousted from that position by a cousin in 771. If true, it would be a matter of considerable interest; the Baghdad Exilarchs were reputed to be lineal descendents of the ancient Hebrew King David.What is fairly clear is that Septimania achieved an independent position in this era by some means or other, with the status of a Duchy or even possibly a Kingdom."9 He was living between 771 and 793.7 He was sent by Haroun Al-Rashid, Calif of Baghdad to Charlemagne, King of the West at his request, who wanted to establish in Europe a middle class based on a Jewish nucleus between 786 and 793.2,10 He died before 804.11
Children of Theodoric I of Septimania and Alda des Francs:
Theodon d' Autun + b. 740 Abba de Septimanie b. c 745 Bertha d' Autun + b. bt 750 - 755 St. Guilhem de Gellone, comte de Toulouse + b. 755, d. bt 28 May 812 - 21 May 815
[S625] Database of Medieval Jewish Names, online <http://www.yucs.org>. Hereinafter cited as Medieval Jewish Names.
[S910] The Scribe, Journal of Babylonian Jewry, issue Nr. 73, Autumn 2000, online <http://www.dangoor.com/scribe.html>. Hereinafter cited as The Scribe.
[S261] Regnal Chronologies, online <http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html>, Mesopotamia & Arabia, the Resh Galuta. Hereinafter cited as Regnal Chronologies.
[S204] Roderick W. Stuart, Royalty for Commoners: The Complete Lineage of John of Gaunt, Son of Edward III, Kings of England, and Queen Philippa (.: ., 3rd Ed., 1998), 326-41. Hereinafter cited as RfC.
[S204] Roderick W. Stuart, RfC, 329-42.
[S274] INRIA - Domaine de Voluceau - Rocquencourt, online ftp://ftp.inria.fr/INRIA/Projects/cristal/Daniel.de_Rauglaudre/GED/, Research Engineer Daniel de Rauglaudre (Le Chesnay Cedex, France), downloaded 04 NOV 1999.
[S204] Roderick W. Stuart, RfC, 329-41.
[S176] Christian Settipani & Patrick van Kerrebrouck, La Prehistoire des Capetiens 481-987, Premiere partie: Merovingians, Carolingians et Robertiens (Villeneuve d'Ascq: Editions Christian, 1993), pg. 221. Hereinafter cited as Capetiens 481-987.
[S261] Regnal Chronologies, online <http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html>, France, Septimania.
[S653] Philosophy of History, online <http://www.friesian.com/>, for timeframe of Harun al-Rashid. Hereinafter cited as PoH.
[S176] Christian Settipani & Patrick van Kerrebrouck, Capetiens 481-987, pg. 345.
Auda Martel [Parents] was born in 732 in Swabia, Bavaria, Germany. She died in 811. She married Count Theodoric of Septimania I.
Also called Bertha. Alda des Francs was born circa 726. She was the daughter of Carolus Martellus, dux Francorum and Chrothais , a concubine .1,2 She married Theodoric I of Septimania, son of Habibai beni David (David Descent Tradition) , before 740.
They had the following children:
M i Count Bellon De Carcasonne I was born about 777. He died about 812.
M ii Duke Thierry of Toulouse was born in 730. He died in 804.
M iii Count William de Toulousse I was born about 751. He died on 28 May 812.
F iv Bertha de Autun was born about 755. She died after 804.
The first William of Gellone is the son of Makhir Theodoric Count of Autun and Aude (or Aldana) the daughter of Charles Martel, as it is generally accepted that William supervised a young Louis the Pious in the court of Charlemagne in 790, having just then been named Count of Toulouse. Theodoric is the above-mentioned Makhir Theodoric I, also known as Count of Autun and Toulouse, Jewish King of Septimania, Nasi' or Prince of Narbonne, Thierry, Machir, as well as by a number of other names and titles as befit the Duke of Narbonne and an uncle of Charlemagne. Use of various names and titles is as true of royalty today as it ever was. It should be noted however that Davidic royalty has always been perceived as a most desirable lineage among European noble houses, and the Machir family was no exception in the many privileges which were granted them over a number of centuries in France. The story of how Makhir (Machir) first came to Narbonne has the status today of legend.
The legend which was preserved by Abraham ibn Daud was that Then King Charles sent to the King of Baghdad [Caliph] requesting that he dispatch one of his Jews of the seed of royalty of the House of David. He hearkened and sent him one from there, a magnate and sage, Rabbi Makhir by name. (Jewish Encyclopedia) This has been interpreted by many as meaning Charlemagne as he was the only King' Charles of that era, but it has been revised by Athol Bloomer to mean Charles Martel, who served as Mayor of the Palace in his time while king of the Franks in all but official title. This revision repositions Machir in history slightly while allowing the introduction of some further details.
The Eudes who served as Duke to Charles Martel at the siege of Narbonne prior to a Franks' defeat of the Muslims in 739 left in 735 in order to return to Babylon and take his post as Babylonian Exilarch Judah Zakkai. He married his own son Machir to Alda the daughter of Charles Martel (The Hammer). The later siege of Narbonne in the days of Pepin the father of Charlemagne occurred as a result of the Muslim recapture of the city and ended in 759 with Makhir's appointment over one third of the city. The Cortada Regis Judæorum was the Makhirs' family dwelling in Narbonne, meaning Court of the King of the Jews (Jewish Encyclopedia, quoting Saige, "Hist. des Juifs du Languedoc," p. 44).
Charlemagne's mother was the sister of Theodoric Makhir. Incredibly, Charlemagne's Jewish name was David Kalonymus. By this do we end a cycle of genocide of family names which have been wrongfully erased from history. May we recognize with regard to many families a need for the rewriting of portions of genealogical history, noting particularly the Dark Age from 1500 BCE until now. It is daunting, but this is in stark contrast to those who exchange the truth of God for a lie (Romans 1:25). The work of that restoration is beginning.
The four sons of Machir Todros the son of Judah Zakkai were
a. Menachem (Hernaut de Gironde, Harald Hildetand)
b. Nehemiah (Theodoric II/Theuderic of Ripaurien and Saxony, Aymer le Chetif)
c. Nathan Kalonymus (William of Orange/Guillaume de Gellone, William of Septimania)
d. Yakar (Guibelin/ Gui Alberic of Narbonne)
Theodoric, Roderick, Rurik, and Roric are versions of the same name.
Thierry (Theodoric) Count of Autun 1 2
Alias: Makir Theuderic Duke of Toulouse
Born: ABT 720 in Autun, Saone-et-Loire, Bourgogne, France
Died: BEF 805 in Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrenees, France 1
Died: 782 3
Father: Childebrand I Lord of Perracy b: ABT 691 in Perrancey, Haute-Marne, Champagne, France
Mother: Rolande de Autun of Toulouse b: ABT 696 in Autun, Saone-et-Loire, Bourgogne, France
Marriage 1 Auda (Aldane) Martel b: BEF 724 in Heristal, Liege, Belgium
Married: as 1st wife
Children:
Theodoen Count of Autun b: 745 in Autun, Saone-et-Loire, Bourgogne, France
Thierry Count in Riparia b: ABT 747 in Septimania
Auba (Berthe) of Autun b: ABT 749 in Autun, Saone-et-Loire, Bourgogne, France
William I Count of Toulouse, Saint b: ABT 751 in Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrenees, France
Sources:
Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
Page: Alan B Wilson, 12 Jun 1998
Title: The Plantagenet Ancestry, by William Henry Turton, 1968
Page: 10
Text: Theodoric
Title: The Plantagenet Ancestry, by William Henry Turton, 1968
Page: 10
- Thierry IV Count Of Autun
born about 0713 Chelles, Seine-et-Marne, France
died February 0746/47
father:
- Dagobert III King of France
born about 0687 France
died 19 January 0715/16
or
- Habibi of Haninai
mother:
unknown
siblings:
- Bertrada Princess of France
born about 0704 Laon, Aisne, France
spouse:
- Aude (Aldane) Martel of Austrasia
born about 0713
children:
- Theodoric (Thierry?) I Duke of Toulouse
born about 0730 died about 0804
?Thierry Of Autun born about 0740 died about 0793
biographical and/or anecdotal:
notes or source:
ancestry.com
William of Gellone
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
William was born in northern France in the mid-8th century. He was a cousin of Charlemagne (his mother Aldana was daughter of Charles Martel) and the son of Thierry IV, Count of Autun and Toulouse.
Arthur Zückerman's book "A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France 768-900"
"...in return for Pepin's promise to grant recognition to a prince of their own, the Jews surrendered besieged Narbonne to the Franks in 759. pepin redeemed his pledge soon thereafter when Natronai-Makhir, a Davidic exilarch, was forced into exile to the west by a political upheaval in Baghdad. He became the first nasi (patriarch) under the Carolingians at their invitation. The Jews acclaimed him as Messiah ben Ephraim, whose advent in 768 coincided with the end of seven hundred years of Temple ruin, corresponding to the period prophesied and calculated for the sway of Edom-rome, the Fourth Kingdom and its barbarian conqueror. Pepin received Makhir into the Frank nobility and dubbed him with the distinguished name Theodoric. The Carolingian rulers granted to Makhir-Theodoric a dommain in free allod, including former church properties, located in Septimania and the Toulousain and extending into as yet alien Spain. By act of commendation Makhir-Theodoric became a vassal of the Carolingians who, in turn, assumed overlordship of the Jews as futrher evidence of having entered upon legitimate biblical succession...
Makhir received a Carolingian princess as his wife, apparently Alda the sister of Pepin. Their son was William Count of Toulouse...
Theuderic IV or Theuderich, Theoderic, or Theodoric; in French, Thierry (died 737) was the Merovingian King of the Franks from 721 until his death. He was the son of king Dagobert III.
During his reign, his realm was controlled by the mayor of the palace, Charles Martel.
After his death, the Frankish throne remained vacant for seven years, until Pepin the Short arranged for Childeric III, the last Merovingian king, to succeed him.
Theodoric I of Septimania was received by Charlemagne and was given the title "King of the Jews."
Theodoric claimed (or others do for him) descent not only from the Merovingian Kings, but lineal descent from King David himself. Both Charlemagne and the Pope acknowledged this pedigree.
Theodoric was Exilarch of Narbonne at Septimania. He was also called Rabbi Makir ha-David. He was also called Dietrich.
Theodoric married Alda des Francs, daughter of Carolus Martellus, dux Francorum and Chrothais , a concubine, before 740. He became Count of Septimania in 742.
Theodoric was living between 771 and 793. Apparently, he was sent by Haroun Al-Rashid, Calif of Baghdad to Charlemagne, King of the West, at his request, who wanted to establish in Europe a middle class based on a Jewish nucleus between 786 and 793.
Theodoric died before 804.
See "My Lines"
( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p305.htm#i9077 )
from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA
( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )
BIOGRAPHY: Theuderic IV was another puppet Merovingian king during the reign of the Austrasian Mayor Charles Martel.
Supposedly the ancestry of Makir Theodoric Aymeri (born Toulouse, France) can be traced back through the Jewish "exilarchs" to the ancient Jewish kings of Judah which are outlined in the Bible.
The descent of this Makir Theodoric descends down to Constance of Toulouse (in the male line). She married Robert II, King of France who is an ancestor of ours. The line I have in the tree goes down to Richard I, Duke of Burgundy, also an ancestor of ours.
Of course these proposed ancient genealogies are sketchy and often vague, and only rarely can be proven. But I've included them as they are extremely interesting and show a link between our family and the ancestors of Jesus which is pretty amazing.
Theuderic-Makhir is the subject of the book "A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France," by Arthur J. Zuckerman, Columbia University Press, 1972. It is a scholarly work that has attracted everything from critical approval to downright fulminating criticism. Here is a (cached) posting from the GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives which, in addition to the comments, provides more resources on the subject:
http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:cYpRgSkgNGUC:archiver.rootsweb...
Erik Meldal-Johnsen
Theuderic IV* OF NEUSTRIA
____ - ____
Father: Dagobert III*
Family 1 : Alda* OF AUSTRASIA
1. +Bertha* DE AUTUN
2. +William I* TOULOUSE
http://www.worldroots.com/ged/pomer/dat245.html#7
Do not confuse him with Makhir or with Théodéric IV of Austrasia.
Theuderic (or Thierry or Teiric) was Count of Autun, and Count of Toulouse (771). His ancestry is not attested by contemporary sources. Traditionally, he was held to have been of Merovingian descent, son of either Bernarius and Chrodelinde (Moriarty, Stuart), or of Childébrand, Duke of Burgundy, and Rolande.
In some modern literature he is confused with Théodéric IV, King of the Franks (?-737). See, for example, Michael of Albany and Walid Amine Salhab, The Knights Templar of the Middle East (San Francisco, 2006), 52.
Some scholars think Theuderic was connected in some way with the Jewish dynasty of exilarchs at Narbonne, perhaps identical with with Makhir, a Jewish prince who came from Iraq to serve as leader of the Jewish community at Narbonne. Zuckerman suggested Makhir was identical with Natronai ben Habibai, while others believe Makhir was more likely Natronai's younger brother. According to Zuckerman, he adopted the Frankish name Theuderic (Thierry) when he married into the Frankish royal family. In later romance he was called Aymery.
Zuckerman's theory is widely rejected by historians.
From the French Wikipedia page on Thierry I d'Autun:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Ier_d'Autun
Thierry Ier d'Autun est un comte d'Autun du VIIIe siècle de la famille des Guilhemides.
Origine
Aucun document ne mentionne son ascendance. La présence dans sa descendance des prénoms de Bernard, Thierry et Rolande a conduit en 1965 Eduard Hlawitschka à rapprocher les premiers Guilhemides de la famille de Bertrade de Prüm. En effet, cette dernière fonde l'abbaye de Prüm en 721, et, parmi les signataires de l'acte de la fondation, figurent son fils Caribert et ses proches parents Rolande, Bernhar et Thierry. Les historiens admettent que Rolande et Bernhar sont mariés ensemble et père de Thierry, lequel est chronologiquement le père de Thierry Ier, comte d'Autun. Reste à évaluer la parenté entre Rolande et Berthe. Pierre Riché les considère comme sœurs et filles du sénéchal Hugobert et d'Irmina d'Oeren, tandis que Chritian Settipani considère que Rolande est fille de Bertrade[1],[2].
Biographie
Thierry est cité comme comte d'Autun à plusieurs reprises en 742 et 750[2]. En 775, un jugement rendu par Charlemagne le nomme parmi les fidèles du roi[3]. En 782, Eginhard le qualifie de parent du roi (Charlemagne). Il décède après cette date[3],[2].
Mariage et enfants
Il a épousé Alda, probablement fille de Charles Martel, duc des Francs, qui donne naissance à :
1. Theoden (ou Teudoin) († ap.826), comte d'Autun, cité en 804[3]
2. Thierry, cité en 782[4],[2] et en 804[3].
3. Alleaume (ou Adalhelm)[4],[3].
4. Guillaume (ou Guilhem)[4],[2], comte de Toulouse et fondateur, en 804, de l'abbaye de Saint-Guilhem-le-Désert. Bien plus tard (vers le XIIe siècle), ce dernier sera renommé Guillaume d’Orange dans un des grands cycles épiques du Moyen Age.
5. Abba et Berta, citées comme religieuse en 804. L'une d'elles a probablement épousé un Nibelungide, Childebrand II ou Nibelung II[5].
Notes et références
1.↑ Riché 1983, p. 350 (tableau III).
2.↑ a, b, c, d et e Settipani 1993, p. 173-6.
3.↑ a, b, c, d et e Foundation for Medieval Genealogy [archive].
4.↑ a, b et c Riché 1983, p. 369, tab. XXIII.
5.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 344-5.
Bibliographie
1. Pierre Riché, Les Carolingiens, une famille qui fit l'Europe, Hachette, coll. « Pluriel », Paris, 1983 (réimpr. 1997), 490 p. (ISBN 2-01-278851-3)
2. Christian Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, vol. 1), éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993 (ISBN 2-9501509-3-4)
3. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy : Carolingian Nobility (Families of Nibelung, Childebrand and Theodoric)
In English:
Thierry I d'Autun was a Comte d'Autun of the 8th century, in the family of Guilhemides.
Origin
There is no record of his descent. The presence of his name in the lineage of Bernard, Thierry and Rolande led Eduard Hlawitschka in 1965 to suggest that Bertrada de Prum belonged to the Guilhemides. Indeed, Bertrada founded the Abbey of Prum in 721, and among the signatories of the act of foundation was her son Caribart, and his kin Rolande, Bernhar, and Thierry.
Historians agree that Rolande and Bernhar were married, and that Thierry was father, chronologically the father of Thierry I, Comte d'Autun. The relationship between Rolande and Bertha remains to be evaluated. Pierre Riche has them as sisters, and the daughters of Seneschal Hugobert and Irmina of Oeren, while Christian Settipani considers Rolando to be the daughter of Bertrade [1][2].
Biography:
Thierry was cited as Comte d'Autun repeated between 742 and 750 [2]. In 775, a decision was made by Charlemagne to make him a member of the King's court [3]. In 782, Einhard cites that he is described as a relative of the King (Charlemagne). He died afterward. [3][2]
Marriage and Children
He married Alda, probably the daughter of Charles Martel, Duke of the Franks, who gave birth to:
1. Theoden (or Teudoin, d. c.826), Comte d'Autun, cited in 804 [3]
2. Thierry, cited in 782 [4][2] and 804 [3]
3. Alleaume (or Adalhelm) [4][3]
4. Guillaume (or Guilhem) [4][2], Comte de Toulouse and founder (in 804) of the Abbey of St-Guilhem-le-Desert. Much later (around the 12th century), he will be renamed William of Orange in a major epic cycle of the Middle Ages.
5. Abba and Berta, cited as nuns in 804. One of them was probably married to the Nibelungids, Childebrand II or Nibelung II [5].
------------------------------
In English:
Thierry I d'Autun was a Comte d'Autun of the 8th century, from the family Guilhemides.
Origin:
There is no record of his parentage. The presence of names in his lineage to Bernaud, Thierry, and Rolande led Eduard Hlawitschka to first suggest in 1965 that he was from the Guilhemides family of Bertrade de Prum. In effect, Bertrade founded the Abbey of Prum in 721, and among the signatories of the act of foundation is his son Caribert and his kin Rolande, Bernhar, and Thierry.
Historians agree that Rolande and Bernhar are married, and father Thierry, who is chronologically the father of Thierry I, Comte d'Autun. It remains to be evaluated the relationship between Rolande and Bertha. Pierre Riche has them as sisters and daughters of the Seneschal Hugobert and Irmina d'Oeren, while Christian Settipani considers that Rolande is the daughter of Bertrade.
Biography:
Thierry was documented as the Comte d'Autun repeatedly in 742 and 750. In 775, a decision made by Charlemagne made him among the followers of himself, the King. In 782, Eginhard describes his relationship with the King (Charlemagne). He dies shortly after.
Marriage and children:
He married Alda, probably the daughter of Charles Martel, Duke of the Franks, who gave birth to:
1. Theoden (or Teudouin) d. c. 826, Comte d'Autun, cited in 804.
2. Theirry, cited in 782, and in 804.
3. Alleaume (or Adalhelm)
4. Guillaume (or Guilhem), Comte de Toulouse and founder in 804 the Abbey of St-Guilhem-le-Desert. Much later (around the 12th century), the latter will be renamed by William of Orange in the major epic cycles of the Middle Ages.
5. Abba and Berta, cited as nuns in 804. One of them was probably married into the Nibelungids, either Childebrand II or Nibelung II.
From the French Wikipedia page on the Guilhemides:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilhemides
La famille des Guilhelmides ou Wilhelmides est un lignage de la noblesse franque du VIIIe et Xe siècles proche de la famille carolingienne. Initialement implantée dans la région d'Autun, elle s'étend ensuite en Septimanie (Aquitaine et Languedoc). Cette famille tient son nom de Guillaume de Gellone, son représentant le plus célèbre, mais les prénoms de Thierry et Bernard sont les plus fréquents dans cette famille.
Histoire de la famille
Origine
Le premier représentant certain de la famille est Thierry, cité comme comte d'Autun en 742 et en 750. Il est marié à Alda, probablement[1] fille de Charles Martel, duc des Francs. La présence dans sa descendance des prénoms de Thierry, Bernard, Heribert et Rolande a conduit en 1965 Eduard Hlawitschka à rapprocher les premiers Guilhemides de la famille de Bertrade de Prüm. En effet, lorsque cette dernière fonde l'abbaye de Prüm, elle signe l'acte de fondation en présence de son fils Caribert (= Heribert) et de ses proches parents Rolande, Bernhar et Thierry[2].
Les comtes d'Autun
Le premier fief de la famille, Autun, est confié aux Guilhemides avant l'arrivée des Carolingiens à la royauté, puisque Thierry Ier est déjà comte en 742. Bien que la branche issue de son fils aîné s'éteigne au bout de deux générations, la ville est tenue jusqu'en 873 par des descendants issus de branches cadettes, pourtant établies dans le sud du royaume franc, avec parfois des alternances avec des comtes de la famille Nibelungide, que l'onomastique désigne comme apparentée aux Nibelungides.
L'Aquitaine et la Septimanie
A la suite de la bataille de Roncevaux, Charlemagne perd la confiance de Chorson, comte de Toulouse et nomme son cousin Guillaume à sa place[3]. Cette nomination marque le début de l'implantation des Guilhemides dans le sud de la Gaule, en Aquitaine et en Septimanie, le futur Languedoc. À partir du règne de Louis le Pieux, son fils Bernard de Septimanie tire parti de la révolte des fils de l'empereur, puis des luttes qui suivent le partage de Verdun en 843 pour se constituer une principauté en Catalogne et en Septimanie[4]. Son œuvre est poursuivie par son fils Bernard Plantevelue[5]. Le fils de ce dernier, Guillaume le Pieux, perd le Toulousain et le Languedoc, mais domine l'Aquitaine, et la mort sans héritier de ses neveux laisse ce duché à une lignée rivale, les Ramnulfides, implantés dans le Poitou[6].
Le comté de Poitiers
En 815, l'empereur Louis le Pieux confie le comté de Poitiers à un de ses fidèles, nommé Bernard, qui assure cette charge au moins jusqu'en en 825. En 828, c'est un comte du nom d'Émenon qui est nommé à Poitiers[7]. Cet Émenon est considéré comme appartenant à la famille des Guilhemides, même si les historiens ne s'accordent pas sur la façon dont il se rattache à cette famille : certain le disent fils d'Adalhelm ou Alleaume[8], d'autre le disent fils du comte Bernard Ier de Poitiers, lui même fils d'Adalhelm ou Alleaume[9]. Les membres de la famille d'Émenon tentent ensuite de s'implanter à Poitiers et à Troyes, mais ils seront évincés de Troyes en 894 par le duc de Bourgogne Richard le Justicier, et de Poitiers en 902 par Ebles Manzer, un Ramnulfides[10].
In English:
The family of Guilhelmides or Wilhelmides is a lineage of Frankish nobility of the 8th and 10th centuries, and closely associated with the Carolingians. Originally established in the region of Autun, it extended to Septimania (Aquitaine and Languedoc). This family takes its name from William Gellone, its most famous member, but the names of Theirry and Bernaud are the most frequent from this family.
Family History
Origin:
The first representative of the family is a certain Thierry, cited as the Comte d'Autun in 742 and 750. He is married to Alda, probably the daughter of Charles Martel, Duke of hte Franks. The presence of the names in his lineage of Theirry, Bernard, Heribert, and Rolande led Eduard Hlawitschka in 1965 to assign the Guilhemides family to Bertrade de Prum. In effect, when the latter founded the Abbey of Prum, he signed the deed of foundation to his son Caribert (Heribert), and his relatives Rolande, Bernhar, and Thierry.
The Comtes d'Autun
The first stronghold of the family, Autun, was entrusted to the Guilhemides before the arrival of the Carolingians as royalty, as Thierry I is already count by 742. Although the lineage of his eldest son goes extinct after two generations, the city is held in 873 by the offspring of younger branches, yet located in the south of the Frankish kingdom, sometimes alternating as counts with the family of the Nibelungids.
Aquitaine and Septimania
Following the Battle of Roncesvalles, Charlemagne loses confidence in Chorson, Comte de Toulouse, and appoints his cousin Guillaume in his place. This appointment marks the beginning of the rise of the Guilhemides in southern Gual, Aquitaine, and Septimania, the future Languedoc region. From the reign of Louis the Pious, his son Bernard Septimanie takes advantage of the revolt of the son of the emperor, then after the Battle of Verdun in 843 establishes a principality in Catalonia and Septimania. His work was continued by his son Bernard Plantapilosa. The son of the latter, Guillaume the Pious, loses Toulouse and Languedoc, but dominates the Aquitaine, and his death without any heirs of his nephew leaves the duchy in the hands of a rival family, the Ramnulfids, located in Poitou.
The County of Poitiers:
In 815, Emperor Louis the Pious places the County of Poitiers into the hands of his follower Bernaud, which remains in that office until at least 825. In 828, there is a count named Emenon who is appointed to Poitiers. Emenon is regarded as belonging to the family of Guilhemides, though historians disagree on his relationship within the family: some say he is the son of Adalhelm or Alleaume, and others say he is the son of Bernard I, Comte de Poitiers, himself the son of Adalhelm or Alleaume. The family members of Emenon then try to set up in Poitiers and in Troyes, but they will be evicted from Troyes in 894 by the Duke of Burgundy Richard le Justicier, and from Poitiers in 902 by Eblas Manzer, a Ramnulfide.
Count Theodoric of Septimania I [Parents] was born about 720 in Babylonia, Persia. He died before 804. He married Auda Martel.
The name "Machir," comes from Genesis 50:23, used by R. Machir, in Iraq, and Narbonne, France; 8th-9th century.1 Theodoric I of Septimania was received by Charlemagne and was given the title "King of the Jews".2 His ancestry is possibly one of the greatest lineages of antiquity. Theodoric, claimed (or others do for him) descent not only from the Merovingian Kings, but lineal descent from King David himself. Both the king and the Pope acknowledged this pedigree. Also called Makhir Natronai ben Habibi the Resh Galuta.3 Exilarch of Narbonne in Septimania.4 Also called Rabbi Makir ha-David.2 Also called Dietrich. He was born circa 720 in Babylonia, Persian Empire. He was the son of Habibai beni David (David Descent Tradition) .5 He married Alda des Francs, daughter of Carolus Martellus, dux Francorum and Chrothais , a concubine , before 740.6,7 Count in 742.8 "The evidence is sketchy and muddled at this distance, but a persistant account of Theodoric I has it that he was the Jewish Exilarch in Narbonne, and that he succeeded in establishing a regionally autonomous Jewish-led state around Narbonne. Makhir has been identified as being Makhir Natronai, Resh Galuta in Baghdad, ousted from that position by a cousin in 771. If true, it would be a matter of considerable interest; the Baghdad Exilarchs were reputed to be lineal descendents of the ancient Hebrew King David.What is fairly clear is that Septimania achieved an independent position in this era by some means or other, with the status of a Duchy or even possibly a Kingdom."9 He was living between 771 and 793.7 He was sent by Haroun Al-Rashid, Calif of Baghdad to Charlemagne, King of the West at his request, who wanted to establish in Europe a middle class based on a Jewish nucleus between 786 and 793.2,10 He died before 804.11
Children of Theodoric I of Septimania and Alda des Francs:
Theodon d' Autun + b. 740 Abba de Septimanie b. c 745 Bertha d' Autun + b. bt 750 - 755 St. Guilhem de Gellone, comte de Toulouse + b. 755, d. bt 28 May 812 - 21 May 815
[S625] Database of Medieval Jewish Names, online <http://www.yucs.org>. Hereinafter cited as Medieval Jewish Names.
[S910] The Scribe, Journal of Babylonian Jewry, issue Nr. 73, Autumn 2000, online <http://www.dangoor.com/scribe.html>. Hereinafter cited as The Scribe.
[S261] Regnal Chronologies, online <http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html>, Mesopotamia & Arabia, the Resh Galuta. Hereinafter cited as Regnal Chronologies.
[S204] Roderick W. Stuart, Royalty for Commoners: The Complete Lineage of John of Gaunt, Son of Edward III, Kings of England, and Queen Philippa (.: ., 3rd Ed., 1998), 326-41. Hereinafter cited as RfC.
[S204] Roderick W. Stuart, RfC, 329-42.
[S274] INRIA - Domaine de Voluceau - Rocquencourt, online ftp://ftp.inria.fr/INRIA/Projects/cristal/Daniel.de_Rauglaudre/GED/, Research Engineer Daniel de Rauglaudre (Le Chesnay Cedex, France), downloaded 04 NOV 1999.
[S204] Roderick W. Stuart, RfC, 329-41.
[S176] Christian Settipani & Patrick van Kerrebrouck, La Prehistoire des Capetiens 481-987, Premiere partie: Merovingians, Carolingians et Robertiens (Villeneuve d'Ascq: Editions Christian, 1993), pg. 221. Hereinafter cited as Capetiens 481-987.
[S261] Regnal Chronologies, online <http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html>, France, Septimania.
[S653] Philosophy of History, online <http://www.friesian.com/>, for timeframe of Harun al-Rashid. Hereinafter cited as PoH.
[S176] Christian Settipani & Patrick van Kerrebrouck, Capetiens 481-987, pg. 345.
Auda Martel [Parents] was born in 732 in Swabia, Bavaria, Germany. She died in 811. She married Count Theodoric of Septimania I.
Also called Bertha. Alda des Francs was born circa 726. She was the daughter of Carolus Martellus, dux Francorum and Chrothais , a concubine .1,2 She married Theodoric I of Septimania, son of Habibai beni David (David Descent Tradition) , before 740.
They had the following children:
M i Count Bellon De Carcasonne I was born about 777. He died about 812.
M ii Duke Thierry of Toulouse was born in 730. He died in 804. M iii Count William de Toulousse I was born about 751. He died on 28 May 812. F iv Bertha de Autun was born about 755. She died after 804. The first William of Gellone is the son of Makhir Theodoric Count of Autun and Aude (or Aldana) the daughter of Charles Martel, as it is generally accepted that William supervised a young Louis the Pious in the court of Charlemagne in 790, having just then been named Count of Toulouse. Theodoric is the above-mentioned Makhir Theodoric I, also known as Count of Autun and Toulouse, Jewish King of Septimania, Nasi' or Prince of Narbonne, Thierry, Machir, as well as by a number of other names and titles as befit the Duke of Narbonne and an uncle of Charlemagne. Use of various names and titles is as true of royalty today as it ever was. It should be noted however that Davidic royalty has always been perceived as a most desirable lineage among European noble houses, and the Machir family was no exception in the many privileges which were granted them over a number of centuries in France. The story of how Makhir (Machir) first came to Narbonne has the status today of legend.
The legend which was preserved by Abraham ibn Daud was that Then King Charles sent to the King of Baghdad [Caliph] requesting that he dispatch one of his Jews of the seed of royalty of the House of David. He hearkened and sent him one from there, a magnate and sage, Rabbi Makhir by name. (Jewish Encyclopedia) This has been interpreted by many as meaning Charlemagne as he was the only King' Charles of that era, but it has been revised by Athol Bloomer to mean Charles Martel, who served as Mayor of the Palace in his time while king of the Franks in all but official title. This revision repositions Machir in history slightly while allowing the introduction of some further details.
The Eudes who served as Duke to Charles Martel at the siege of Narbonne prior to a Franks' defeat of the Muslims in 739 left in 735 in order to return to Babylon and take his post as Babylonian Exilarch Judah Zakkai. He married his own son Machir to Alda the daughter of Charles Martel (The Hammer). The later siege of Narbonne in the days of Pepin the father of Charlemagne occurred as a result of the Muslim recapture of the city and ended in 759 with Makhir's appointment over one third of the city. The Cortada Regis Judæorum was the Makhirs' family dwelling in Narbonne, meaning Court of the King of the Jews (Jewish Encyclopedia, quoting Saige, "Hist. des Juifs du Languedoc," p. 44).
Charlemagne's mother was the sister of Theodoric Makhir. Incredibly, Charlemagne's Jewish name was David Kalonymus. By this do we end a cycle of genocide of family names which have been wrongfully erased from history. May we recognize with regard to many families a need for the rewriting of portions of genealogical history, noting particularly the Dark Age from 1500 BCE until now. It is daunting, but this is in stark contrast to those who exchange the truth of God for a lie (Romans 1:25). The work of that restoration is beginning.
The four sons of Machir Todros the son of Judah Zakkai were
a. Menachem (Hernaut de Gironde, Harald Hildetand)
b. Nehemiah (Theodoric II/Theuderic of Ripaurien and Saxony, Aymer le Chetif)
c. Nathan Kalonymus (William of Orange/Guillaume de Gellone, William of Septimania)
d. Yakar (Guibelin/ Gui Alberic of Narbonne)
Theodoric, Roderick, Rurik, and Roric are versions of the same name.
Thierry (Theodoric) Count of Autun 1 2
Alias: Makir Theuderic Duke of Toulouse
Born: ABT 720 in Autun, Saone-et-Loire, Bourgogne, France
Died: BEF 805 in Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrenees, France 1
Died: 782 3
Father: Childebrand I Lord of Perracy b: ABT 691 in Perrancey, Haute-Marne, Champagne, France
Mother: Rolande de Autun of Toulouse b: ABT 696 in Autun, Saone-et-Loire, Bourgogne, France
Marriage 1 Auda (Aldane) Martel b: BEF 724 in Heristal, Liege, Belgium
Married: as 1st wife
Children:
Theodoen Count of Autun b: 745 in Autun, Saone-et-Loire, Bourgogne, France
Thierry Count in Riparia b: ABT 747 in Septimania
Auba (Berthe) of Autun b: ABT 749 in Autun, Saone-et-Loire, Bourgogne, France
William I Count of Toulouse, Saint b: ABT 751 in Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrenees, France
Sources:
Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
Page: Alan B Wilson, 12 Jun 1998
Title: The Plantagenet Ancestry, by William Henry Turton, 1968
Page: 10
Text: Theodoric
Title: The Plantagenet Ancestry, by William Henry Turton, 1968
Page: 10
Thierry IV Count Of Autun born about 0713 Chelles, Seine-et-Marne, France
died February 0746/47
father:
Dagobert III King of France born about 0687 France
died 19 January 0715/16
or
Habibi of Haninai mother:
unknown
siblings:
Bertrada Princess of France born about 0704 Laon, Aisne, France
spouse:
Aude (Aldane) Martel of Austrasia born about 0713
children:
Theodoric (Thierry?) I Duke of Toulouse born about 0730 died about 0804
?Thierry Of Autun born about 0740 died about 0793
biographical and/or anecdotal:
notes or source:
ancestry.com
William of Gellone
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
William was born in northern France in the mid-8th century. He was a cousin of Charlemagne (his mother Aldana was daughter of Charles Martel) and the son of Thierry IV, Count of Autun and Toulouse.
Arthur Zückerman's book "A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France 768-900"
"...in return for Pepin's promise to grant recognition to a prince of their own, the Jews surrendered besieged Narbonne to the Franks in 759. pepin redeemed his pledge soon thereafter when Natronai-Makhir, a Davidic exilarch, was forced into exile to the west by a political upheaval in Baghdad. He became the first nasi (patriarch) under the Carolingians at their invitation. The Jews acclaimed him as Messiah ben Ephraim, whose advent in 768 coincided with the end of seven hundred years of Temple ruin, corresponding to the period prophesied and calculated for the sway of Edom-rome, the Fourth Kingdom and its barbarian conqueror. Pepin received Makhir into the Frank nobility and dubbed him with the distinguished name Theodoric. The Carolingian rulers granted to Makhir-Theodoric a dommain in free allod, including former church properties, located in Septimania and the Toulousain and extending into as yet alien Spain. By act of commendation Makhir-Theodoric became a vassal of the Carolingians who, in turn, assumed overlordship of the Jews as futrher evidence of having entered upon legitimate biblical succession...
Makhir received a Carolingian princess as his wife, apparently Alda the sister of Pepin. Their son was William Count of Toulouse... -------------------- Theuderic IV or Theuderich, Theoderic, or Theodoric; in French, Thierry (died 737) was the Merovingian King of the Franks from 721 until his death. He was the son of king Dagobert III.
During his reign, his realm was controlled by the mayor of the palace, Charles Martel.
After his death, the Frankish throne remained vacant for seven years, until Pepin the Short arranged for Childeric III, the last Merovingian king, to succeed him. -------------------- Theodoric I of Septimania was received by Charlemagne and was given the title "King of the Jews."
Theodoric claimed (or others do for him) descent not only from the Merovingian Kings, but lineal descent from King David himself. Both Charlemagne and the Pope acknowledged this pedigree.
Theodoric was Exilarch of Narbonne at Septimania. He was also called Rabbi Makir ha-David. He was also called Dietrich.
Theodoric married Alda des Francs, daughter of Carolus Martellus, dux Francorum and Chrothais , a concubine, before 740. He became Count of Septimania in 742.
Theodoric was living between 771 and 793. Apparently, he was sent by Haroun Al-Rashid, Calif of Baghdad to Charlemagne, King of the West, at his request, who wanted to establish in Europe a middle class based on a Jewish nucleus between 786 and 793.
Theodoric died before 804.
See "My Lines"
( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p305.htm#i9077 )
from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA
( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )
BIOGRAPHY: Theuderic IV was another puppet Merovingian king during the reign of the Austrasian Mayor Charles Martel. -------------------- Supposedly the ancestry of Makir Theodoric Aymeri (born Toulouse, France) can be traced back through the Jewish "exilarchs" to the ancient Jewish kings of Judah which are outlined in the Bible.
The descent of this Makir Theodoric descends down to Constance of Toulouse (in the male line). She married Robert II, King of France who is an ancestor of ours. The line I have in the tree goes down to Richard I, Duke of Burgundy, also an ancestor of ours.
Of course these proposed ancient genealogies are sketchy and often vague, and only rarely can be proven. But I've included them as they are extremely interesting and show a link between our family and the ancestors of Jesus which is pretty amazing.
Theuderic-Makhir is the subject of the book "A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France," by Arthur J. Zuckerman, Columbia University Press, 1972. It is a scholarly work that has attracted everything from critical approval to downright fulminating criticism. Here is a (cached) posting from the GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives which, in addition to the comments, provides more resources on the subject:
http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:cYpRgSkgNGUC:archiver.rootsweb...
Erik Meldal-Johnsen
Theuderic IV* OF NEUSTRIA
____ - ____
Father: Dagobert III*
Family 1 : Alda* OF AUSTRASIA
1. +Bertha* DE AUTUN 2. +William I* TOULOUSE
http://www.worldroots.com/ged/pomer/dat245.html#7
read more
Do not confuse him with Makhir or with Théodéric IV of Austrasia.
Theuderic (or Thierry or Teiric) was Count of Autun, and Count of Toulouse (771). His ancestry is not attested by contemporary sources. Traditionally, he was held to have been of Merovingian descent, son of either Bernarius and Chrodelinde (Moriarty, Stuart), or of Childébrand, Duke of Burgundy, and Rolande.
In some modern literature he is confused with Théodéric IV, King of the Franks (?-737). See, for example, Michael of Albany and Walid Amine Salhab, The Knights Templar of the Middle East (San Francisco, 2006), 52.
Some scholars think Theuderic was connected in some way with the Jewish dynasty of exilarchs at Narbonne, perhaps identical with with Makhir, a Jewish prince who came from Iraq to serve as leader of the Jewish community at Narbonne. Zuckerman suggested Makhir was identical with Natronai ben Habibai, while others believe Makhir was more likely Natronai's younger brother. According to Zuckerman, he adopted the Frankish name Theuderic (Thierry) when he married into the Frankish royal family. In later romance he was called Aymery.
Zuckerman's theory is widely rejected by historians.
From the French Wikipedia page on Thierry I d'Autun:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Ier_d'Autun
Thierry Ier d'Autun est un comte d'Autun du VIIIe siècle de la famille des Guilhemides.
Origine
Aucun document ne mentionne son ascendance. La présence dans sa descendance des prénoms de Bernard, Thierry et Rolande a conduit en 1965 Eduard Hlawitschka à rapprocher les premiers Guilhemides de la famille de Bertrade de Prüm. En effet, cette dernière fonde l'abbaye de Prüm en 721, et, parmi les signataires de l'acte de la fondation, figurent son fils Caribert et ses proches parents Rolande, Bernhar et Thierry. Les historiens admettent que Rolande et Bernhar sont mariés ensemble et père de Thierry, lequel est chronologiquement le père de Thierry Ier, comte d'Autun. Reste à évaluer la parenté entre Rolande et Berthe. Pierre Riché les considère comme sœurs et filles du sénéchal Hugobert et d'Irmina d'Oeren, tandis que Chritian Settipani considère que Rolande est fille de Bertrade[1],[2].
Biographie
Thierry est cité comme comte d'Autun à plusieurs reprises en 742 et 750[2]. En 775, un jugement rendu par Charlemagne le nomme parmi les fidèles du roi[3]. En 782, Eginhard le qualifie de parent du roi (Charlemagne). Il décède après cette date[3],[2].
Mariage et enfants
Il a épousé Alda, probablement fille de Charles Martel, duc des Francs, qui donne naissance à :
1. Theoden (ou Teudoin) († ap.826), comte d'Autun, cité en 804[3]
2. Thierry, cité en 782[4],[2] et en 804[3].
3. Alleaume (ou Adalhelm)[4],[3].
4. Guillaume (ou Guilhem)[4],[2], comte de Toulouse et fondateur, en 804, de l'abbaye de Saint-Guilhem-le-Désert. Bien plus tard (vers le XIIe siècle), ce dernier sera renommé Guillaume d’Orange dans un des grands cycles épiques du Moyen Age.
5. Abba et Berta, citées comme religieuse en 804. L'une d'elles a probablement épousé un Nibelungide, Childebrand II ou Nibelung II[5].
Notes et références
1.↑ Riché 1983, p. 350 (tableau III).
2.↑ a, b, c, d et e Settipani 1993, p. 173-6.
3.↑ a, b, c, d et e Foundation for Medieval Genealogy [archive].
4.↑ a, b et c Riché 1983, p. 369, tab. XXIII.
5.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 344-5.
Bibliographie
1. Pierre Riché, Les Carolingiens, une famille qui fit l'Europe, Hachette, coll. « Pluriel », Paris, 1983 (réimpr. 1997), 490 p. (ISBN 2-01-278851-3)
2. Christian Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, vol. 1), éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993 (ISBN 2-9501509-3-4)
3. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy : Carolingian Nobility (Families of Nibelung, Childebrand and Theodoric)
In English:
Thierry I d'Autun was a Comte d'Autun of the 8th century, in the family of Guilhemides.
Origin
There is no record of his descent. The presence of his name in the lineage of Bernard, Thierry and Rolande led Eduard Hlawitschka in 1965 to suggest that Bertrada de Prum belonged to the Guilhemides. Indeed, Bertrada founded the Abbey of Prum in 721, and among the signatories of the act of foundation was her son Caribart, and his kin Rolande, Bernhar, and Thierry.
Historians agree that Rolande and Bernhar were married, and that Thierry was father, chronologically the father of Thierry I, Comte d'Autun. The relationship between Rolande and Bertha remains to be evaluated. Pierre Riche has them as sisters, and the daughters of Seneschal Hugobert and Irmina of Oeren, while Christian Settipani considers Rolando to be the daughter of Bertrade [1][2].
Biography:
Thierry was cited as Comte d'Autun repeated between 742 and 750 [2]. In 775, a decision was made by Charlemagne to make him a member of the King's court [3]. In 782, Einhard cites that he is described as a relative of the King (Charlemagne). He died afterward. [3][2]
Marriage and Children
He married Alda, probably the daughter of Charles Martel, Duke of the Franks, who gave birth to:
1. Theoden (or Teudoin, d. c.826), Comte d'Autun, cited in 804 [3]
2. Thierry, cited in 782 [4][2] and 804 [3]
3. Alleaume (or Adalhelm) [4][3]
4. Guillaume (or Guilhem) [4][2], Comte de Toulouse and founder (in 804) of the Abbey of St-Guilhem-le-Desert. Much later (around the 12th century), he will be renamed William of Orange in a major epic cycle of the Middle Ages.
5. Abba and Berta, cited as nuns in 804. One of them was probably married to the Nibelungids, Childebrand II or Nibelung II [5].
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Thierry I, count of Autun's Timeline
| 755 |
755
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Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrénées, France
Northern France. |
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| 760 |
760
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Comté d'Autun, Bourgogne, (Within present France)
|
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| 791 |
791
|
Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Occitanie, France
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| ???? | |||
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