HELLO DUTCH SPEAKERS... could you please translate?

http://dbnl.org/tekst/agt_001wate01_01/agt_001wate01_01_0034.php

Maybe the mentioned Gerard MOESKOKER on this page, see pg. 84 can be of help? I will also have a look if I can find more in my :

* Van Dale - Etymologisch Woordenboek - de herkomst van onze woorden - onder hoofdredactie van dr. P.A.F. van Veen + en drs. Nicoline van de Sijs. Utrecht/Antwerpen.

I know some other sources for questions like these, but need some time to find their adresses, ok?

* Meertens Instituut - www.

Alex Moes the best translation for Moes would be puree or compote, like in stewing apples etc. A moeskoker would be a product or person who makes apple puree or makes puree from something else.
Could even have been a paper maker, paper-puree

Van Dale mentions:

* MOES [brij]

> oudnl. MUOS 901-1000
> middelnl. MOES [spijs, moes, brij]
> ouhd. MUSO
> oudsaksisch, oudfries, oudeng. MOS; ablautend naast
> gotisch MATS (vlg. mes, met); buiten het germ.
> lat. MADERE
> gr. MADAO [ik ben week]
> oudindisch MEDAS - [vet]

It seems you have a very interestic, international familyname, Alex. And I can imagine now the link to Adam & Eve too... :-)

Also mentioned in the etymiological dictionary is:

MOES-koppen = pruilen, stropen
>year 1581 : in de betekenis 'stropen'
>1901-1925 : van hd. Mauskopf [muizenkop, muis, dief], mausen [stelen, eerst gezegd van de kat die muist, vervolgens in algemeen gebruik]

P.S. stropen ww. = according to http://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/vertaal/NL/EN/stropen:
to : bone (bijv.nw. / bijw.), skin, poach, flay, strip, graze, fleece, debark

Synoniemen
NL: uitbenen (ww.) - EN: bone (bijv.nw. / bijw.), skin, poach, flay
NL: afstropen (ww.) - EN: bone (bijv.nw. / bijw.), skin, poach, flay, dragging (bijv.nw. / bi...
NL: afhalen (ww.) - EN: take, fetch, collect, pick up, take away, take along, come round fo...
NL: ontvellen (ww.) - EN: strip, skin, graze, fleece, debark, abrasion (the ~)

Milieu en Chemie
NL: stropen - EN: poaching
Definitie Engels: 1.To catch game, fish, etc. illegally by trespassing on private property.

Techniek en Industrie
NL: stropen - EN: to strip off

The website I can recommend also others looking for explanations of their ancestries-cultures and habits:

* Nederlands Centrum voor Volkscultuur en Immateriaal Erfgoed - Utrecht - http://www.volkscultuur.nl/

* Meertens Instituut - Amsterdam - http://www.meertens.knaw.nl/cms/ - also for explanations of Dutch FAMILY-names.

Jeanette, again very interesting, i feel quite overwhelmed.
I noticed at the Meertens Instituut - http://www.meertens.knaw.nl/cms/ - that while the number of Moes has increased between 1947 and 2007 there are no recorded Moeskoker in the country in those years. So the Moeskoker name has died out, replaced in part by the shorter Moes.

Occupation = "clapwaker"? and a few variations on that spelling

Ordehandhaving en brandbestrijding in de achttiende eeuw

http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1...

www.oudlisse.nl/historie/ordehandhaving1.php

31 jul. 2008 – Ieder uur moest de klapwaker de klap driemaal slaan en luid en duidelijk ... De klapwaker moest er ook op toezien dat alle huizen goed waren ...

and

KLAPWAKER (Betekenis/definitie van)

http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1...
from www.encyclo.nl/begrip/KLAPWAKER

KLAPWAKER Resultaten uit de online Nederlandstalige encyclopedieën in één oogopslag.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=klapwaker&hl=nl&tbo=u&bi...

so

Law And Order
Blow Guard
villages had a hit watchman or "klapperman" in the night hours to monitor. This hit watchman was walking around with a wooden clapper called "hit" the hit consisted of a wooden board that to a handle could be maintained. On this wooden board was a hinged hammer confirmed, that a clacking sound made as the hit watchman hit back and forth was moving.Had to hit every hour watchman hit store and three times loud and clearly indicate what time it was. In case of trouble or fire, he served the hit ' save ' and direct the rural Governing Board wrong and the overseers of the fire syringes on. The hit watchman had to also ensure that all the houses were well closed, the inhabitants had no stuff outside, there by no one furniture or similar items were transported, and there are no people with ladders and sticks ran down the street. [2] the hit watchman had a job with a lot of responsibility. Therefore it was expected of him that he "standing" was. In addition he had to in front of the rural Governing Board an oath in which he stated that he would exert its function in a correct manner. In 1785 was during the appointment of the new hit watchman emphasised that he was always sober and competent. [3] A.M. hulkenberg associated with alcohol abuse this right away, but it might just as well can also cover the personality of the hit watchman (wise, calm, not easily confused).

maybe you know de Nachtwacht van Rembrandt:
all of those persons on this painting are also "klapwakers",

Private User

thanks, I like this kind of documentation in genealogy. This information might also be interesting for the -yet undeveloped- project-page
* http://www.geni.com/projects/index/13473 ?

I was trying to start a new thread for this but Geni won't let me for some reason:

I need some advice from people who have experience reading hand written Dutch documents.
Specifically i am interested in the Hoogersmilde Haardstedengeld records from 1691, 1692, 1693, 1694 and 1710. These documents are all available online via www.drenlias.nl (except the 1710 document which you have to go to Assen to look at - i have a copy but haven't yet uploaded to Geni.com), i have uploaded the 1691 record to Geni and this is the second page from that year:
http://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000020171064513

My question revolves around the first name on this page which Drenlias records in their database as "Harmen Moeskoecker", this man is one of my oldest Dutch relatives that i have been able to trace and i have no doubt that he is my 7th great grandfather BUT viewing the original document it looks to me like his name is actually spelt "Mooskoocker". Why would Drenlias have the wrong(?) spelling in their database which is normally quite accurate (not 100% but certainly close maybe 99.9%). I am planning to email Drenlias and ask them to review their database compare to the original and enquire if there is some reason that i am not aware of and i thought i would ask that same question here.

There are 7 other Moeskoecker records in Drenlias, all of which look more like Mooskoocker to me in the original documents. In 1693 the name is recorded as Moeskoker which i think is accurate of the handwritten original (and also matches the scan i have of the 1710 record) and in the next surviving document from 1742 the name is further shortened to Moes.

These are the oldest known records of the family name and after 1710 these extended versions disappear altogether, am i really a Moos not a Moes? Any opinions?

Alex Moes,
I'm no expert so I can't give an opinion but I could see that the man who wrote the name was using a pen that was leaking. There are lots of little drops above the name. Maybe that's why the 'e' looks more like an 'o'.

Private User
With comments like that you sound like an expert to me! Besides everyone is allowed an opinion they aren't restricted to experts :)

I can see the dots you are refering to but i don't think they change the shape that much. The two letters is question are in each case the second letter of what appears to be a double "o", look at those two shapes compared to the "e" which is the second last letter and flows into the "r". Neither shape looks like that "e" to me.
Look at the "e" in Harmen where it flows into the "n", i don't know the technical term but the tail of the "e" is low on the page leading into the top of the "n" which is high on the page, i would expect a similiar shape on the mystery letters as both lead into similiarly high letters (one an "s" and the other a "c").

I am confident that i am reading the letters correctly but perhaps there is some Dutch custom that i am not aware of?

I will cut and paste all the example that exist into one file and upload it to Geni.com tonight, i will also upload the 1710 record in full as i don't think it is available anywhere else online.

The letter combinaions of the vowels 'oe or 'oo' don't sound at all alike when spoken.

I agree with your analysis, I was just trying to think of a reason why they look so much like oo.

This file shows all the examples that i have discovered to date, they all look like "oo" to me (aside from the shorter versions which could go either way)

http://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000020349494332

You're right. There isn't one of them that looks like it could be Moeskoocker. The is the easiest for me to read. The only thing I can now think of to explain how the o turned into an e is the very fancy s and the line which connects to the o.

It would be nice if someone else had an idea :-)

Yes my guess, purely from the hand writing is that Mooskoocker was shortened to Mooskoker simply because of different scribes, perhaps then as you say the fancy style of the handwriting in Mooskoker resulted in the next scribe mistaking it for Moeskoker and shortening if further to just Moes. The people in question were probably illiterate or close to it so did not notice but as you say though the sounds should be quite different, what were these people thinking when the tax man kept changing their name?

Alex Moes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_people
Take a look at the part about names,

http://www.angelfire.com/pe/devries/names.html. (It's too bad that Google translate doesn't do a very good job of translating the text.)

Up until 18 Aug.1811, when Napoleon signed a decreet, people could call themselves anything they wanted.

The 16th and 17th eeuw were were called the Golden Centuries. Here is an interesting article about different kinds of taxes during that period, Once again you'll need to translate it ;-)

Dear Alex, In Dutch Moeskoker makes most sense. It could have been an activity or profession: Koken is the Dutch word for cooking. Moes is the Duch word as in for example appelmoes. You cook apples into moes.

Hopes this helps,

Thank you Andre.
Your explanation makes sense to me but i am still undecided how to record the name. These documents seem to spell the name with a double-O so changing the spelling seems a bit arbitrary.

Just an update in case anyone is curious:

I contacted the archive and explained my opinions. After about a month i received an email agreeing that the spelling is indeed "oo".
Sadly, no suggestion how or why this has happened, so Andre's explanation is propbably still the correct one.

* Alex Moes
* Private

sorry, effe in 't duts: Andre, wat te zeggen van de suggestie dat het gaat over MOOS = MOS = MOSS in de oppervlakkige grondlagen van Drenthe toch niet zo'n vreemd ingredient als het om TURF-steken gaat? Kun jij het in netjes-Engels uitleggen, want dan krijg ik met VAK-taal te maken en ik kan alleen in JARGON kleppen, you see?

nog een kleine aanvulling op de eventuele FAMILIE-naam MOSS:

* http://www.meertens.knaw.nl/nfb/detail_naam.php?gba_lcnaam=moss&amp...=

...hoop dat de URL werkt..groet, jMVu.

sorry, dat was voor het jaar 2007, maar we hebben ook een bron voor
* 1947 : http://www.meertens.knaw.nl/nfb/detail_naam.php?nfd_naam=Moss&g...

en ik denk dat je via WWW.WIEWASWIE.NL ook bevolkingsregisters uit vroeger dagen kunt raadplegen, maar daar heb ik zelf nog maar weinig mee geoefend, dus ... zoek ze!

@Abraham Levy

I would be grateful if someone could translate an 1814 hand written marriage document called Richter marriage page 1 and Richter marriage page 2 attached as media to this profile: Abraham Levy, ben Levie

Thank you for your time,
Roberta

Private User,
First of all hi 16th cousin once removed :-)
I took a look at the 2 documents you want to have translated. The The marriage licence is too faded and not clearly written so I can't help you with the translation. Maybe someone else can help you with that.

The addoption certificate was almost completely readable;
Abraham Levij who was living at ...eesperstraat 47 ( it's )section one appeared before a civil servant named AD Jungt-Mae(?)re from the town of Amsterdam, department Zuiderzee, first district. He (Abraham) declares that he adopts the name of Richter as his family name and for his first name Abraham Levij . That he has three sons and three daughters, no grandson and no granddaughter.
Levij 13 years old
Jacob 8 years old
Mozes 9 months
Jettje 11 years old
Leentje 6 yeaars old
Saartje 4 years old
(To the right of the bracket surround the childrens' names it's written that they live in the same house as at the top).
Down at the bottom it's wrtten that Levij couldn't sign the document because he can't write.

Thank you for taking the time to translate the name adoption document. I wonder if he learned to write in the U.S. or left that to his son with whom he was in business. I have his son Jacob A. Levy's signature on Confederate records because he sold cloth and buttons for uniforms and needles and thread to a hospital during the Civil War. Abraham Levy (Richter) died before the war. For an epileptic man from a poor family, he did well for himself in his adopted country.
Again, thank you for the translation.
Roberta

"naemen van de voogden van't sieckhuys, zedert den jaere 1580"

It's "sieck-huys that's got me stuck, sounds like sick house in English so i'm guessing something of the nature of a poor house?

"Names of the governs of the sick house from 1580 onwards"?

ALSO

"dese onder staende heeren bewint hebberen hebben haren eedt gedaen ten tijde als volght"

Something about honourable gentlemen but i have no idea in connection to what?

Both from a book titled "Historie der vermaerde zee- en koop-stadt Enkhuisen, vervaetende haere herkomste en voortgangh. Mitsgaders verscheide gedenkwaerdige geschiedenissen, aldaer voorgevallen" which frankly i have given up on too!

Thanks in advance

bewint hebberen = administrators

't sieckhuys = the hospital

onder staende= below
heeren= gentlemen, men
eedt = oath
Historie der vermaerde zee- en koop-stadt Enkhuisen vervaetende haere herkomste en voortgangh= History of the of the renowned/famous sea and buying state Enkhuisen containing the origine and progress.

Mitsgaders verscheide gedenkwaerdige geschiedenissen, aldaer voorgevallen" which frankly i have given up on too! = Providing different worthy histories (examples) of things that have happened there.

Bedankt!