Maurício (Maurice) Drummond, Prince of Hungary 1st Seneschal - Doubting the Drummond descent

Well, DNA will tell, won't it ? Regards.

DNA so far shows the Drummonds have a typically Scottish yDNA signature. Not even remotely foreign.

Interesting. Talking of DNA, how does this connect to a typically scottish DNA signature ?

Y- dna R-M269 13 24 13 11 11-14 12 12 13 12 13 28 18 9-9 11 11 25 15 19 31 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 16 16 18 17 38-39 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 11 10 8 10 10 12 21-23 16 10 12 12 14 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

I won't tell you whose family it belongs to yet if you don't mind. If you could just tell me what you think about it.

Regards,

Jessica

What stands out there is that there's not enough testing to say anything with any confidence. This person has done enough to find some possible male line relatives but not enough to differentiate their origins from millions of other European men.

Which testing norm do you need ?

This is the result to Y- DNA 111

13 25 14 11 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 27 17 9-10-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15-15-15-16-17-17 11 10 19-23 16 15 18 17 36-37-38 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 15 8 11 22 21 15 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 9 16 12 24 26 19 12 11 13 12 11 10 14 12 10 10 11 30 12 13 23 12 10 10 19 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 11 14 17 9 12 11

This is Y- DNA 25 for 3 of the same surname

R-M269 13 24 13 11 11-14 12 12 13 12 13 28 17 9-9 11 11 25 15 19 31 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 16 16 18 17 39-39 12 12

R-M269 13 24 13 11 11-14 12 12 13 12 13 28 18 9-9 11 11 25 15 19 31 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 16 16 18 17 38-39 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 11 10 8 10 10 12 21-23 16 10 12 12 14 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

R-M269 13 25 14 11 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 27 17 9-10-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15-15-15-16-17-17 11 10 19-23 16 15 18 17 36-37-38 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 15 8 11 22 21 15 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 9 16 12 24 26 19 12 11 13 12 11 10 14 12 10 10 11 30 12 13 23 12 10 10 19 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 11 14 17 9 12 1

And Y- DNA 12 of the three of the same surname.

R-M269 13 24 13 11 11-14 12 12 13 12 13 28 17 9-9 11 11 25 15 19 31 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 16 16 18 17 39-39 12 12

R-M269 13 24 13 11 11-14 12 12 13 12 13 28 18 9-9 11 11 25 15 19 31 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 16 16 18 17 38-39 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 11 10 8 10 10 12 21-23 16 10 12 12 14 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

R-M269 13 25 14 11 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 27 17 9-10-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15-15-15-16-17-17 11 10 19-23 16 15 18 17 36-37-38 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 15 8 11 22 21 15 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 9 16 12 24 26 19 12 11 13 12 11 10 14 12 10 10 11 30 12 13 23 12 10 10 19 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 11 14 17 9 12 11

You see, I entered this exact suite of numbers on the net and I was very surprised at the name results.

Funnily enough, they were all scottish.

Can you confirm ?

What you really need to refine the SNP testing. R-M269 is about as generic as it gets.

Right, I will try to find out, it's not mine, I will get tested in 2018.

How can I send you an image, it says the ones in green are confirmed by SNP testing?

I've typed all the dark Green ones out for you :

R-M269 dys 460 11 Y-gata H4 11 ycaII 19-23 DYS607 16 DYS442 12 DYS 438 12

This page displays Y-Chromosome DNA (Y-DNA) STR results for the project. It uses the classic format. The columns display each project member's kit number, paternal ancestry information according to project settings, the paternal tree branch (haplogroup), and actual STR marker results. The color coding of STR marker names is explained here. In the haplogroups column, haplogroups in green are confirmed by SNP testing.

You're welcome to contact me privately. I trying to take a break, but for something interesting like this I'm always willing to be distracted.

At this level it doesn't matter much whether the haplogroup is confirmed or not. It's easy enough in most cases to tell whether someone is R-M269 just from the STR pattern.

What's hard is to tell whether different families belong to the same branch of R-M269 without doing more SNP testing. It's the largest haplogroup in Europe. There are something like 110 million men who are R-M269. It many cases their STR patterns will be similar just by chance.

And what's even more interesting is that this suite belongs to the Dympcks of the west of england. Gloucestershire and Somerset. Not the Lincolnshire branch ( officially)..no one is capable as of yet to really know who they initially were. But Moch is a hebrew word. Long subject. But someone annoyed me 25 years ago and i'd love a twist to it. ;)

You definitely want more SNP testing. Probably a Big Y test if you really want answers.

YFull currently estimates the common ancestor of all R-M269 men lived 6400 years ago. That leaves a lot of room for different origins in the individual branches.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/

Who does the full test ? ( Company) Thanks.

You probably want Family Tree DNA.

https://www.familytreedna.com/

Order the Big Y if your friend can afford it. Otherwise, an SNP Pack for M269.

Hi
Just read your conversation on the history of the Drummond Clan, my surname is Beggs, my branch of the family came to County Antrim circa 1610 from Drimmin in Scotland, the first person to take the name Begg is believed to be Malcolm Begg (known as little Malcolm) he is said to have made caltraps (4 pronged spikes) which he spread on the battle field of Bannockburn in 1213, this resulted in crippling the English cavalry and assisted Robert the Bruce winning the battle.
Malcolm is descended from the Drummond Clan. I have always wondered why the County Antrim Beggs's that I knew had a Mongolian appearance, my Paternal Grandfather and his cousins for example, (Hungarians are said to be half Mongolian) my DNA test shows that I am 7.3 % Eastern European, Hungary area. There is no evidence of any recent Hungarian blood in my family so there is a possibility of a family line going back to the supposed first Drummond, Prince Maurice of Hungary, the founder of the Drummond clan, the illigitimate son of King George of Hungary.
This could be wishful thinking on my part but it is a possibility.
Cheers Jim Beggs
Carrickfergus