MyHeritage -- Snaps Up Geni.com

Jennifer, I think you get the award for funniest post of the day. I'm going to go to sleep tonight picturing your hypothetical McDonald's customer.

Matching for newspaper articles in particularly difficult I think. I'll just compare the similar service in Ancestry. MH is better, from search results to viewer to the instant PDF maker. Quantum leaps better in fact.

Justin the Salt Lake Tribune was the paper of record! I'm finding good obits published there for my Idaho & Oregon people. Never would have thought ...

So happy to be of service, Justin! If anything I have to say puts you to sleep, then my work here is done. ;-)

You don't need to tell me, Erica ;)

I grew up in the Intermountain West (between the Rockies and the Sierra Nevadas / Cascades). Salt Lake was the economic capital (and for many also the religious capital). What surprised me was that someone who had lived in San Francisco for 40 or 50 years would warrant an obit in Salt Lake, and that it would be so much fuller than the one in San Francisco OR the one in Big Piney.

Now I live on the other side the Divide, in Denver, but it's the same here. Denver is the capital of a large area. When my partner's parents died, they warranted obits in the Denver Post even though they lived out on the plains, 120 miles away. 'Course, his mom was the Mayor of their little town, so maybe that had something to do with it.

One fancy newspaper matching error I've found is to my third cousin's mother Aasa Furstenberg - her husband and her son were both named Lawrence Furstenberg, but the newspapers (who seemed to run an article every time she had someone over for dinner) consistently referred to her as "Mrs Lawrence Furstenberg" - which matched the husband and son, not her.... I tried to enter "Mrs Lawrence Furstenberg" as an alternate name for her, so one day they might allow me to match her to all the news articles about her.

Fun to watch the small-town news from long ago!

Laughing about your comment, "who seemed to run an article every time she had someone over for dinner". The old, small town papers I've seen devote considerable space to who was "in town" yesterday. I have an image of the news guy spending his days loafing outside the General Store so he sees everyone, then rushing to the office to write it up ;)

I've come across your problem with Mrs a few times. No doubt they'll find a way to manually "shift" the match. They'll have to if they want to get the most out of all the old articles. I ran through years of the Big Piney (Wyoming) paper on Ancestry a few years ago. MH has it, but the matching isn't complete, apparently. I'm looking forward the confirming the dozens of times Mrs. Wilford Luce was back in Illinois visiting her mother, and -- even more -- when my grandfather killed his first elk ;)

More often, my problem has been that the match is to pall bearers or surviving relatives. A good match, as far as it goes, but I'm still waiting for the actual match to the deceased.

What is the difference between being a "Premium" Member" in MyHeritage, and paying for a "Data Subscription" via Geni.com?

If I purchase the Data Subscription, is that the same as purchasing a Premium Membership through MyH?

Do I need both to have full access to the matches and records?

mark - just the data subscription

Mark Harold Melmed You only need the data subscription to access the records. I was a bit confused at first as well, but it seems that a "premium" membership on MH will allow you to get more storage space for photos and profiles on your tree. I got the data subscription, but do not plan on putting up a tree there.

>> I got the data subscription, but do not plan on putting up a tree there.

meaning there was no reason for me to have a premium membership!

Well, Justin, YMMV, but I've had far too many fights over bad matches to be the least bit interested in having to deal with MORE bad matches.

I refer you to the hassles over Josephus W. Waters/Josephus Burton Waters (two different men, different branches of same family tree, radically different wives, offspring and destinies - who are persistently and ubiquitously treated as "one and the same" because morons). 99% of the "Josephus Waters" matches are exactly that sort of crap.

Or do I need to remind you of the Thomas White Wars? At last count there were at least *five* different Thomas Whites living between 1480-1550, of all grades from nobility to commoner, everywhere from Nottinghamshire to Somerset - all of whom had been jumbled with each other to a greater or lesser extent (with deliberately fraudulent intent in the case of one particular source).

And then there's Frances White Wells (again, again, again....)

What's wrong with making the SmartMatches OPTIONAL so that those who want them can have them, and those who don't, don't have them cluttering up their screens?

There was a time when Justin couldn't afford to supersize, but he enthusiastically embraces the extra-large fries these days. He totally understands that it's not an option for everyone. Easily confused and basically a laid-back Happy Meal kinda guy, Justin doesn't really understand why anyone would go to war over a fast food menu... "Dude, it's a *hobby*!", he reminds the other customers as he ambles off to the Playland.

@jason scott wills, and @wendi rachel newman: Thank you both for responding.

I want to know exactly what I would be getting into ahead of time, because I am now giving serious thought to purchasing a MyH Data Suscription only, and I have little trust in MyH.

If I purchase a Data Subscription, what can I add to a profile if there is a Record Match? If there is a Smart Match?

For a Record Match, will I be able to place a pdf or jpeg of the record as a source item on my profile, for example, without having to spend more money, or do I only get a link? For a census record, can I actually view and make a copy of the original as a jpeg?

For a Smart Match, can I place all of the data onto my Geni.com profile, or only a link? Can I make a source item out of my Smart Match?

For a Smart Match, do I get to see the entire matching tree, or only that particular profile?

Please let me know if my question is too confusing, I really would like answers.

Thanks everyone in advance.

I can't answer all of your questions but I can answer some as a MH data subscriber. I'm just going to describe my experiences so far.

- for record matches to newspapers, I have been viewing on MH, use the PDF maker, and add that URL to the "add a link" source on Geni. I assume this is OK. Works fast & easy.

- I cannot answer on census images & partly because it just was implemented.

- for SmartMatches to MH trees a source citation is created on the Geni profile.

- I can view whatever is "public" in the MH tree - I expect there are different options available to the MH tree owner & they set that on their side

Mark, good questions. Here is my own personal experience. Confirming a match does link it to the record or tree on MH. Records automatically become sources, Smart Matches can be added as sources. A source includes the "index content" for that particular profile (record name, date, etc). We're awaiting the ability to identify "facts" for those sources (what we currently do in Geni to put the source icon next to a particular fact). You can view the document linked to the profile, but I expect that anyone wanting to view the actual document will need a subscription to view it. As for copying the image (screenshot, pdf, printout), I don't know the best answer and I'd recommend looking at the terms. It would probably be fine for personal records, but might get into copyright issues if you were to re-upload it to the web for public viewing, reprint it, etc. For Smart Matches, we don't have the ability yet to "pull over" details or additional family members to populate Geni. Currently, it is a linked resource and expanding details or family based on that is a manual process. The link will also allow for "round tripping" later on, if someone adds a record to a profile on MH which is linked here, we should see that. You will be able to see the family profiles (in a profile view) and navigate from family member to family member (so long as it doesn't get into privacy areas) to see the details. If the tree is public, you can probably click to view the actual tree view (haven't done this much).

Mark Harold Melmed I checked a pair of smart matches this morning. I had a profile with parents and spouse. The Smart Matches showed exactly what I had but they had 10 siblings, another spouse and 6.children. What you do is click on a link to confirm the match, then there is another click to save to your Geni profile as a source. Geni will not add the data or create the new profiles, you have to do that manually. MH and Geni have no plans to allow imports either way! The are very specific about that
Also, some Smart Matches only show <private> but at least you know there is more to look for.

Private User I haven't heard about that but there are a lot of things that flow by on the news feed. Even on discussions, things can be a page or more back by the time you look at the discussion page. Do you remember where you heard that?

Mark Harold Melmed asked regarding whether the Geni profile only gets a link to the source or whether the actual source document (PDF, JPG, etc) is loaded on Geni.

This is an important distinction.

As far as I can see, in the first case, the link is only viewable by those with a MH data subscription, including the person who makes the link who would no longer be able to follow it themselves if they let their MH data subscription lapse.

In the second case, the source is preserved on the Geni profile, and accessible by all who can view the Geni profile - with or without MH data subscription.

That's my summary of some of the points in the very good answers already provided by Erica and Jeff above, which are well worth reading in full.

I deleted my post from a bit earlier. In response to Eldon, I think they were specific about auto-importing data from MH to Geni & Geni to MH. I think the specifics of simplifying data entry from smart matches is still open. I thought I heard about more at RootsTech, but I'm not sure.

Yes, it's hard to talk about future phases of the implementation. I'm a hands on person. :)

I base most of my comparison on working with "a data subscription" to Ancestry & a tree on Geni. This is, so far, faster, easier, more attractive, and less expensive.

Maven don't give me White nightmares! I'm disambiguating Todd's today. Major smerges of the immigrant to USA generation all over the Internet. Bermuda is not Massachusetts, not Yorkshire, and not Virginia. Tell that to the LDS. :):)

Thank you all for your answers. You all have been very helpful. These matches definitely have some attractive characteristics for some people, but not for everyone. I am still not sure where I stand, although having all of those US census records seems so very attractive.

I agree with David Prins. For me, it is a very important distinction between having a link to the actual census sheet (for example) in one of my Geni.com profiles, vs. having the actual jpeg available on the profile. Most of my relatives really appreciate looking at the actual census sheet, or ship manifest, etc., rather than studying a text writeup of the same stuff.

I can spend hour upon hour uploading jpegs and pdf files of my own records (leaving copywrite issues aside for now), making them sources, and getting howls of delight from my relatives. It would be terrific to be able to do the same with these MyH records. On the other hand, my relatives would be bored to tears reading the exact same info in a text version.

David Prins observes that IF we can only get a link of a record on our Geni.com profile, THEN each relative of mine would have to purchase a Data Subscription service to see the actual document. Even I would not be able to see the actual record image once my Data Subscription runs out. For me, ***THIS IS CRUCIAL - DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THIS IS THE CASE?***

Geni.com's Amanda's latest blog <http://www.geni.com/blog/introducing-record-matches-and-smart-match...;, seems to indicate that we only get links plus a small thumbnail of the record, but again, I don't think it is clear enough.

Does anyone know for sure, can I get a jpeg or a pdf of the actual record with my Data Subscription?

Maven, I'm sorry but I just don't see the problem. If you're not interested in the matches, then you're not interested. Geni is a collaborative site, so if you don't want to review them, someone else will. Maybe soon, maybe in the distant future.

If someone else confirms a match, you'll see it on Geni, whether or not you like them. You might not want to deal with Josephus Waters or Thomas White again -- out of sight, out of mine -- but someone on Geni certainly will, and it might not be to your liking if you've chosen to pretend it isn't there.

Playing the match game is -- already -- fully optional. You can click on them or not. I think it's more than a little unreasonable to think that Geni would turn them off just because you don't want to see them -- especially when they are so exotically unobtrusive compared to up selling on other Internet sites.

"Fully optional", he says.. "You can ignore them", he says. BUT they grab at you and yank you around the tree whether that's what you wanted to look at or not.

It's not possible to ignore THAT.

I've seen people sleep in train stations! I'd submit it's possible to ignore anything if you make up your mind to it...

It is possible. I don't have any problem ignoring them but always look for tree matches. If someone else has acted on the Smart Matches, the color is gone

They grab at you? Yank you around the tree??

Maven, I think you're seeing something very different than I am.

When the curators were testing the new system, I was very clear about my opinion -- I work for a living and this is nothing but a plot to steal what's left of my free time and turn me into an addict ;)

Even so, I've been able to navigate Geni easily, without anything grabbing me until I poke it. Then, of course, I won't be going to bed anytime soon because there is genealogy to do.

Slight error on my previous post. There were not 10 siblings, there were 17! Now all on Geni.

Mark & David cannot answer on census images. They went live with the link not even 3 days ago, have not tested, & the answers in details best come from Geni / MH on their blog & help platforms. If its not there yet give them a little time. It's a very big software implementation.