John Rice, of Dedham

Started by Justin Durand on Sunday, March 30, 2014
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5/20/2014 at 9:34 PM

I was very moved reading about Nicholas. My brother's middle name was handed down to him, also Nicholas as his grandson carries that as his given name.

My son, is very, very connected to the world of positive energy, healing energy, and uses music in his ICU duties to facilitate relaxation and sleep. It's a gift I think. I was impressed to see that 17th cousin come up, so thanks for posting it. I don't really grasp what all this means yet, except I don't think I have enough time to veriy all the GENI leads. DCR

5/21/2014 at 4:00 AM

Hi
Interestingly I see that Nicholas is my 10th Cousin 4 times removed but as that connection applies to probably about 30- 50 million people in the world I wonder what the relevance is !!

5/21/2014 at 9:29 AM

Greetings Cousin Brian: The Geni site has proved a treasure trove of relationships that were lost and unknown before I began my search for my 7th ggf 18 months ago on this site. Recently, the findings have been fairly dramatic in my view, and support the testimony of my father age 93 in 1978 which I was not very good at putting the pieces together. They are now together in a more complete way and HRH Nicholas deVere von Drakenberg emerged as a kind of link to the search and the mystery as to why the information was kept secret for nearly 416 years.

We will find out how and why he matters to my small story, but he's also a part of a larger picture of the Family's of the Past that link deep understanding of the EARTH and it's mysteries to all of us still living.

I don't speak for anyone but myself, and Curator Justin Swanstrom put the profile up quite apart from this thread, and I don't want to understate the man's importance. Thankyou for the question. The investigation continues to see if John Perratt II 1565 is indeed my 7th ggf as my father said. We shall all see in due course. DCR 19th cousin once removed.

5/21/2014 at 10:38 AM

Mark: I know that the search for John Perratt II 1565 may not yield the person we were hoping to rule in or rule out, and whatever the outcome it's useful to see the relationships that I guessed were out there 18mos. back.

Geni is the source so it's not proved but the system says these are Tudor relationships quite apart from Perratt II, and go to the inductive case for the testimony's accuracy. The relationships are to me, Dale C. Rice 1948 fyi.

Henry VIII= 7th cousin 14 times removed
Catherine Carey= 5th cousin 11 times removed
Henry Carey (Baron Hunsdon) = 5th cousin 11 times removed

Capt. Thomas Suckley= 6th cousin 12 X removed via Pollard( His 3rd ggm is my 1st cousin 17X removed)( Cecelia Stapleton,my 15th ggm is Stuckley's 5th cousin )

Rolland deVellville= 6th cousin 14X removed via Porter/White/Borden linkage
Sir John Perrott 1528 = 8th cousin 10 times removed via de Berkley
John Phillips son of Anne Phillips= 9th cousin 10X removed (DNA indicated match 23/25).
Sir James Perrott likely borther of My 7th ggf, John Perratt II 1565= 8th cousin 11X removed (testimony is that he's father of John Rice 1630)

Ethelralda Maulte/Harrington= first cousin 18X removed to my Great Uncle's wife.

What all of this proves is linkage, time, place, social relatedness, and opportunity by virture of being in connected social/economic circles, and most importantly a kind of linked behavior, proved by historical doccumentation, Pembrokshire Journals, and the Puritan connection which I did not know about until last week is Sir James Perrott status as a leading Puritan, so he's the link that was questioned early on by Ms. Erica, Justin etc. 15 mos. ago. None of these relationships were known or had even the slightest linkage when I began....now at least we have the level of reliability of GENI which points me to the person of Perratt II. DCR 1948

5/21/2014 at 11:45 AM

Dale, a word of caution. I don't think you want to associate yourself with Nick de Vere. While he has many followers, historians see him as a charlatan. Maybe "showman" would be a kinder way to say it.

"He claims to be from an ancient family with special knowledge of true human origins and calls himself a prince of a lost world. He is an expert magician and claims title to be king of the witches--a title that many wiccans reject. . . . As a proponent and scholar of magic he is unrivalled. He is the original magical prince; the rightful king of witches by familial inheritance whose ancient, royal elven blood lineage is unquestionable. As one of the few documented members of this bloodline in the world, he is uniquely qualified to understand some of the deepest human secrets, and reveal them to us."

http://www.redicecreations.com/news/2004/12dec/deveredrakenberg.html

Then we have this:

"TT: Who are the “Dragons” that you write about in your book?

"NDV: In brief the recorded Dragon lineage starts with the Annunaki and descends through the proto-Scythians, the Sumerians in one branch and the early Egyptians in another; the Phoenicians, the Mittani, back to the Scythians again through marital alliance, along to the “Tuatha de Danaan” and the Fir Bolg; down through their Arch-Druidic, Priest-Princely families to the Royal Picts of Scotland and the high kings of the Horse Lords of Dal Riada; through to the Elven dynasty of Pendragon and Avallon del Acqs, and down to a few pure bred families today.

"TT: Were the Dragons originally a separate species from what we would call “human”?

"NDV: Dragon tradition related to all the current genetic and historical evidence says yes they were. Both relatively recent and ancient accounts of Dragons or Elves going back to the Annunaki speak of them as having clearly distinct physical attributes, and these attributes are inherited from a species that scientists now assert preceded the human genetic bottleneck by about thirty thousand years. These attributes are not human in the accepted sense. Whether this ancient race was hybridised with another before history is anybody’s guess but their later hybridisation to produce the Elven God-Kings and Ring Lords: (the King Tribe), is clearly recorded in the Cylinder Rolls."

https://wikispooks.com/ISGP/organisations/grove/Symbolism/Nicholas_...

Oh my.

5/21/2014 at 12:32 PM

All of those relationships seem farly plausible to me (and not very unusual). As Geni fills up and tightens (i.e. through merges) we should find that relationships get closer (at any rate, if its not Kings and Things) because the search engine will find shorter paths.

I concede that were all sceptical about the Haraldston Perrotts in Pembrokeshire being Puritan, and we were wrong. I remain convinced that the John Perrott in Virginia is not connected, or rather not closely connected, to the Haraldston family

Mark

Mark

5/21/2014 at 12:33 PM

So I should get just a brief pat on the head for saying there really were Puritans in Wales ;)

5/21/2014 at 1:52 PM

Ok, Justin, you wuz right and I wuz wrong. I should have remembered that Pembrokeshire was so Anglified (although all the same you still get these bloody aps and verchs which make Welsh ancestry such a nightmarE to me.
Mark

5/21/2014 at 2:20 PM

Dale,

You might like to look at this lot for your Virginia John Perrott.

http://ukga.org/cgi-bin/browse.cgi?DB=13&action=ViewRec&boo... (page 128)

You will see (at the top) that they claimed descent from the Perrotts of Haroldston. At the bottom you will see a younger brother John Perrott who might be around the time of your John (1565). The John on the next page is defintely not a Virginia immigrant; he was an elder son and was in England in 1634 at the time of the Heraldic Visitation then. There is a Stephen who is shown as having (unnamed) descendants.

Another branch of this lot in Oxfordshire appeared in Buckinghamshire (again, go to "Visitations of Buckinghamshire: on Google).

My bet is that in the end you will find a very probable immigrant to Virginia - not proved, quite, bacause photo-IDs were not required then if he wanted to buy a beer - but sufficiently probable to be accepted by most people; but that he will still require quite a lot of research.

Mark

5/21/2014 at 2:34 PM

Justin: For reasons I won't go into here, I have it on fairly reliable authority that the Human Race is linked to some kind of otherness. There are too many features in our biology that serve no past or prestent function to be part of a purely Darwinian natural selection. Some flagela have parts that don't make any sense at all yet they are primary to the function of the cell. Some might say the same is true of the appendex...not a second stomache gon bad or not longer need. The advance of humanity since the blending of Kinds of proto-human are more than social developments. It's only been 40,000 years or so since the event....up until that time the "DREAM TIME" was the 3 million years or so until consciousness became a real effect of the change. The Bible reflects this change as it records the story of ADAM and EVE as the first REAL people on the planet...but clearly there were other beings than the two the Bible recounts.

I take all your warnings to heart, and I don't assume any linkage other the algorhythem's work above as you presented it. I make no claims of speialness, or of ability other than a particularly hard headedness that some take issue with. Once convinced however, I become the same as other skeptics. I hope that is clear now. Mark: I don't know who the man is that Oxford relates as the brother of James Perrott but I surely would like to find him. They said he died without issue: clearly they didn't know about his activities which finally got him thrown out of the PERROTT's and was left with the name PERRATT. DCR 1948

5/21/2014 at 2:48 PM

I aplologise for my typo's above: gone not gon, other (than) the algorhythems, specialness.

Lastly, Had I been aware of James Perrott's status as a Puritan I would certainly have made mention of it....having taken a years worth of doubt it is a great feeling of relief that we found this feature of the story to be plausable now. That's it, Im releived and hope we can move this search forward.

I think the name change to Parrett from Parrott is telling us there was a break in the FAMILY over whatever events occured and my Father's testimony was absolutely clear that Perrett II and Mayo's, Fox, Steagers are part of the travels of John Parrott the Quaker with respect to the family in Barbados. They do connect, and the Parrett is used in Barbados as well as Parrott. If we work back from Barbados we should find Parrett 1565 as the father or grandfather of that lineage with Prunella. At least Im hoping for that. DCR

Private
5/21/2014 at 3:00 PM

Justin Durand I got sucked back into this again.. as for not wanting to be associated with nick de vere.. I can think of some one else..Gustav Anjou the research fraudster..

5/21/2014 at 3:01 PM

Dale - caution about name spelling & making much of that in Colonial records. I am living proof of how casually it was taken.

Private
5/21/2014 at 3:10 PM

unfollowing again even though I know that it won't do diddy sqaut and i'll be back in again before i know it..

5/21/2014 at 3:28 PM

Justin: I was interested to read about Mr. de Vere and his status and found it most likely the work of a very keen mind, set out to distinguish itself from the run of the mill kind of average folk. However, I will admit that this "Transcendent Awareness" got to me. He's certainly a colorful person, and Im sorry to know that he's moved to the other side.

Second sight, the Rosecutions, of which my father subscribed to, and a full awareness that we only understand about 1/4 of our rememberd past are things that have the ring of truth for me. I am not a Rosecution, but you may be interested to know that Sir Frances BACON, a blood relative, was part of the force that organized the Rosecution Society..... My sister has the letter written to my father by them in response to his inquiry in 1935.

Sir Frances Bacon was at Grey's Inn with his brother after his "father" died leaving him without funds or an estate. The MERCER's had a close support relationship to Grey's Inn for a time about when Margaret Mercer was born. Sir Frances was there in 1579. A fovorite of QE I, he is part of the 1978 testimony that I do not and have not presented for discussion about the paternity of my 6th great grandfather, John Perratt II. DCR 1948

5/21/2014 at 3:29 PM

Ms. Erica: Im a touch typist, and not seeing so well these days. I don't know to what you refer, but I accept your caution as always. DCR

5/21/2014 at 3:32 PM

Oh, I see Perratt II and Perrott. Just that the Name Perratt was emphasised by my father and Perrott is the more French R1b lineage. Perratt is the Place name associated with the person my Grandfather is said to be, that's all the distinciton Im making. DCR

5/21/2014 at 3:37 PM

Michael, I got sucked back in too. It was the links to some profiles I'm following. Probably the same for you. Take a look at the recent links and see if you are managing or following any of them. If you are, then you should consider unfollowing and removing yourself as a manager. Anything within shouting distance of this discussion is likely to bring you back in.

5/21/2014 at 3:50 PM

Justin: The interview with Mr. Nicholas deVere links my ancestor, Elizabeth Somerville to him, so that made me perk up. Here she is:http://www.geni.com/path/Elizabeth+Somerville+is+related+to+B+M+Ric...

and this is her relatedness to deVere.HRH Nicholas de Vere von Drakenberg

So there should be connecting Great Grandmother/Grandfather to both or not? (not good at fully comprehending relationships here yet). DCR

5/21/2014 at 3:54 PM

http://www.geni.com/path/Elizabeth+Somerville+is+related+to+HRH+Nic...

http://www.geni.com/path/Elizabeth+Somerville+is+related+to+B+M+Ric...

These links should open properly: The ones immediately above have an extra word and would not open. DCR

5/21/2014 at 4:08 PM

HRH Nicholas de Vere von Drakenberg

http://www.geni.com/path/Dale+C+Rice+is+related+to+Helen+Ela+de+Qui...

Aparantly the deQuincy and Dunbars are sister Grandmothers in two different directions, the first leads to deVere the DeQuency leads me. The distance of some 16 generations is not going to link us too closely Justin...Just the same, the erie coincidens are noteable, and you just have to accept my son's effect on animals of every species is entertaining at the very least. DCR

5/21/2014 at 4:23 PM

Dale, I'm the wrong person to ask. My answer is the same every time -- if your ancestry is documented that far back then you're descended from the same set of people as everyone else whose ancestry is documented that far back. You. Me. Mark. Erica. Nick de Vere. Half of Geni. If it feels special or unique you've missed the big picture.

Private User
5/21/2014 at 4:25 PM

They did spell differently back then and you do have to consider that and if that's how they spelled a name then that's how you have to spell it ,at least for that era. If there is a noticeable variations in spelling, I try to use all spellings , so someone back tracking have several options to follow. Spelling is not my thing ,so sometimes I am not aware of errors. That God for spell check.

5/21/2014 at 5:50 PM

Good points, Lloyd3. Somewhere is all of this is another point that fascinates me.

We are more likely to find the next generation back if they appear in records, and often they are more likely to appear in records if they were local landowners rather than tenant farmers. If you compound that research advantage over many generations it's easy to see why almost everyone ends up with royal and noble ancestors. Those are the lines most likely to be revealed through research. We find those lines because they're the most likely to be documented through many generations, so they're the easiest to find.

There's no mystery here. Almost everyone with English ancestry back to the 1200s shares the same fairly small set of royal and noble ancestors. And the people who can't (yet) trace back that far are all linked closely to someone who can.

It's this little trick of our cultural history that makes it relatively easy for Geni to link so many of us into large family networks.

5/21/2014 at 10:27 PM

What you also find (for England) is that some parts of the country produced far more documantary evidence (and had much higher literacy rates, roughly the same thing) than others, for very deep-seated social reasons. If you did not already know which parts were better or worse than average, you could predict them quite easily by looking at the proportions of "free men" in Domesday Book in 1086. Lincolnshire had far higher rates of "free men" than the average - people who could own land or at least hold it under a contractual and relatively secure basis. Hence a need for documents to prove the basis for your holdings, an incentive to be able to read them, and a greater likelihood of court proceedings when there was a dispute. Northumberland (where my Dickinson ancestors come from) had a much lower proportion than average of "free men", as well as having periodic Scottish invasions and a blood-feud culture which was more deep-seated and lasted longer than in other parts of the country. So (to take an example) where we know the exact christening date of an MP from Northumberland born in the late 1300s, it is because his father, aged 70, finally produced a male heir by his second or third wife; threw a huge christening party to celebrate; and it degenerated into a drunken brawl where 15 people died. The authorities had to do something about this because 15 deaths could mean 15 blood-feuds which would mean serious destabilsation of the area.

5/21/2014 at 10:34 PM

You're really my cousin Mark! :). I'm a Musgrove from the Border marches. And you will be pleased to know the wonderful manners perpetuated in South Carolina & Tennessee.

5/21/2014 at 11:05 PM

Thankyou Lisa Cunningham for your helpful linkages. My Branch of the Perrott/Perratt Family seems to center around Havorford West/ Carew Castle of Pembrokshire and the Tenby ap Rice's . My ancestor was disowned/ or dispossesed for reasons unknown, and carry haplogroup I-1 which there are only 3 known thus far including my father's testimony. Again for your intrest and links I am very grateful. DCR 1948

5/22/2014 at 8:34 AM

You are welcome, hope it helps somehow.
Genealogy is like a Chinese fan,
with your mothers and fathers being the end pieces
and all their husbands and wives mothers and fathers
on the folds between.

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