John Cave - Wives of John Cave

I can see your confusion as well as my own when I went to put on my Echols-Cave family information I think I got from reliable sources that made sense... only to hit a brick wall of When it came to putting the information on

John Echols born 1619 Wimslow Cheshire England died 1680 Old Point Elizabeth City County Virginia.
Records show Name John Ecles
Year 1635
Age 16
Place Virginia
Source Publican Code 6571
Primary Immigrant
Annotation date of transportation order and intended destination
Source Bibliography Passengers For Virginia

Married Elizabeth Andrews born 1640 Panborough Somerset England ch 21 Feb 1642 d.o George Andrews
Died 1671 Stafford Virginia..
She is the mother of David and John and in my opinion Mary

Records show that there is no way he had three wives as he only lived 9 years beyond Elizabeth Andrews.

What the main curator has as mother of John Cave #2 is Mary Eleanor Gilmore siting and sealing it has the source . Yet. records also so Elizabeth Andrews so one must assume that Mary Eleanor Gilmore died after son John born 17 February 1650 Gravesend England died 12 December 1712 Luneburg Caroline Virginia.

Now this is where it gets tricky. People have this John Cave as married to Elizabeth Travers d/o Giles Travers yet have not taken the time to do their math to see fi it is possible. And it is not that this John Cave married Elizabeth Travers. That only leaves Elizabeth Andrews to mother Mary as well that married John Echols.
However it is my belief as it is that of the curator that this John Cave married Mary Echols

Reality is a later John Cave 1650-1712 married Elizabeth Travers and they had Mary Cave Echols

Currently there are two Elizabeth Travers shown as married to this John Cave. They both have the MP flag set because they have different parents. And the supposed "2nd marriage" children shown of John Cave & Elizabeth Travers have birth dates which would be rather "late in life" for either of them (40+ years old).

Elizabeth Harriet Cave - Daughter of Raleigh Travers and Elizabeth Hussey.

Elizabeth Cave - Daughter of Giles Travers and Ann Waugh.

Mary Cave was my 7th great-grandmother, the wife of John Echols. She did not have the middle name of Eleanor. She had a daughter named Mary Eleanor Echols. Her half-brother is David Cave, unknown mother. Mary Cave was the daughter of John Cave, Sr. and Elizabeth Harriett Travers. In the will of John Cave (1637-1717), dated August 6, 1714, proven in 1721 at Stafford County Court, recorded in now lost Will Book "K", page 2. He devised 200 acres of land to his son, John Cave, Jr., who died, so his land revered to his son, David Cave of Orange County, and his wife, Sarah. David Cave was the half brother of my 7th great-grandmother, Mary Cave, because David Cave's mother is unknown. I think the two Elizabeth Travers were of two different generations. Elizabeth Harriett Travers is my 8th great-grandmother. As I said before, I wrote a book on my family, Williams/Echos in 1974, where my family in Georgia and Virginia gave me direct interviews for my book of their own families, which said Mary Cave married John Echols.
Sources for Elizabeth Harriet Travers are located in Barbados, Church Records, 1637-1849, and Caribbean, English Settlers in Barbados, 1637-1800.Sources for Mary Cave include: 1) Lineages of Membes of the National Society of Sons and Daughters of the Pilgrims, Vol. III. 2) U. S. and Internaional Marriage Records, 1560-1900; 3) U.S. Find-A-Grave Index, 1600s-Current.
Elizabeth Harriett Travers sources include; 1) Narbados, Church Records, 1637-1849, 2) Caribbean, English Settlers in Barbados, 1631--1800.
Sources for her parents, Raleigh Travers and Elizabeth Cole Hussey include 1) "Our Royal Ancestors":2) The Society of Colonial Dames of America in the state of Virginia, 1913. 3) Virginia Biography, Volume 1-11;: 4) Virginia, Biographical Encyclopedia: 5) Virginia, Marriages of the Northern Neck of Virginia, 1649-1800.
Thurza H. Williams is my 3rd great-grandmother, she is the daughter of Nathan Williams and Lucy Annah (Echols) Williams, of Greene and Jasper couhties, Georgia.This family gave me my Echols and Williams genealogy for my 1974 book that I wrote on my family. Lucy Annah (Echols Williams was the daughter of John Evans Echols (1737-1826) and Lucy Anna Moore.

re: "... In the will of John Cave (1637-1717) ..."

Therein are the makings of confusion of cross-mingled connections.

The John Cave of this discussion is showing as (1644-1721) b. Gravesend, England d. Frederick County, Virginia.

Dona, you have the details of the persons & the relationships, but I (we Curators) need more specific help with details and how they correspond (or do not correspond) to specific Geni profiles in order to untangle this.

For instance, you state that you think the two Elizabeth Travers are of different generations -- yet I still don't know which belongs to which spouse. Names alone can be confusing; names + dates + relationships (+ locations ) are often necessary to untangle "snarled up" family connections.

I was looking at your "Ancestor Report", Dona, and I don't see any Travers among them; perhaps finding the "misconnection"/"missing connection" there would be helpful.

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000148991780951?to=337786262...

Dan Cornett:
I was talking about the John Cave, married to Elizabeth Harriett Travers, parents of Mary Cave b. 1637 Caldecot, England, d. 1717, Marlborough Count, Va. married to Elizabeth (Travers) Cave, b. 1650, Stafford County, Va., d. 1693, Middlesex County, Va,m parents of Mary Cave Echols (1661-1712), sister of John Cave and half-sister of David Cave. The paths to my family does not show my Echols path, it shows my Cornwell path, never-the-less, I cannot do anything about the parents of Mary Cave with the question marks on her. The Wikitree profiles are correct on all my Echols to the Cave/Travers family, I just am still working on placing them in the GENI tree. Sorry if I was working on the wrong John Cave, different dates. The John Cave I have is 1637-1717) married to Elizabeth (Travers) Cave (1650-1693), mother of Mary (Cave) Echols, half-sister of David Cave. Anyway, the wikitree profiles o tis family is correct, and it matches my Ancestry tree, as well as 43 other Ancestry, and I am stil trying to work on the MyHeritage site. It will take some time.
Dona Kimmons

Dan Cornett:
I followed my line of Echols to Mary Cave. I think I found the problem. There are 2 Mary Caves. One is mine, listed as Mary (Echols) Cave, b. July 5, 1661 Caroline, Va., d. 1712, Caroline County, Virginia, Colonial Virginia. This is on wikitree as well. When I tried to enter her parents of John Cave and Elizabeth Travers Cave, it would not allow me to do so, saying unknown father and mother. But on the other profile of Mary Cave managed by Linda Bennett, same birth date, corrrect children, including David Cave, half-sister of Daid Cave, which is my ancestor, but her mother is not listed on that proifle, which is Elizabeth Harriett (Travers) Cave. On her profile, you will see a wikitree match for my ancestor Mary (Cave) Echols. It is just on the GENI profile of Elizabeth Harriet Cave (Travers), whish is correct, but did not list her children. On the match of wikitree, her children are listed. They are my ancestor, Mary (Cave) Echols and John Cave, she is their mother. On David Cave, his mother is unknown Andrews, but his father is the same John Cave as mine. So there are 2 Mary Caves that need to be corrected, as far as I can tell.
Dona Lorine Kmmons

Sidebar: Cynthia: that comparison has a problem in that the child Sarah immigrated to America -- yet the curator note on the MP profile states that no children immigrated to America. That 'to-merge-in' branch either needs a bit of tearing apart or rejecting as erroneous duplicates.

Back to the main issues of the various John Cave's.

Dan Cornett:
I have been askee to merge my ancestor, Mary Echols (Cave), which still would show unknown father and mother of Mary Cave, with Linda Bennet's profile of Mary Cave, which would disconecct my Echols family's children. Her profile shows John Cave and (unknow) Andrews who is the mother of David Cave, my half-brother, but only shows the Cave children, not mine. I don't understand this, so I did not merge these profiles because I do not wish to disconnect my family of Echols. I guess it will have to remain that Mary Cave still has an unknown father and mother, which is not true. I sent a message to Erica Howton on this merge, and did not merge it. I thought we were discussing this on this discussion.
Dona Lorine Kimmons

So we’re talking about Mary Echols who married John Echols? Her parents are unproven?

The merge request from Private User would disconnect unproven parents of John Cave, Sr and {Unknown} Andrews and therefore the “brother” David Cave, I you mention, but not affect any Echols children.

We can all review the evidence for parents of Mary Cave. Is there anything new?

Cross referencing discussion https://www.geni.com/discussions/202969?msg=1430499