The bogus Moytoy tree

Erica Howton Bellinda Gail Myrick-Barnett
Erica Quote -- ""It was modern times as in the 1990s that invented the Moytoy tree.""

See Ref below: 1962; 1938; 1796; 1891; 1937; 1982; 1926

[1] Gearing, Fred (1962). Priests and Warriors: Social Structures for Cherokee Politics in the 18th Century.
• Brown, John P. Old Frontiers. (Kingsport: Southern Publishers, 1938).
• Haywood, W.H. The Civil and Political History of the State of Tennessee from its Earliest Settlement up to the
Year 1796. (Nashville: Methodist Episcopal Publishing House, 1891).
• Litton, Gaston L. "The Principal Chiefs of the Cherokee Nation" (http://digital.library.okstate.edu/Chronicles/
v015/v015p253.html), Chronicles of Oklahoma 15:3 (September 1937) 253-270 (retrieved August 18, 2006).
• Mooney, James. Myths of the Cherokee and Sacred Formulas of the Cherokee. (Nashville: Charles and Randy
Elder-Booksellers, 1982).
• Ramsey, James Gettys McGregor. The Annals of Tennessee to the End of the Eighteenth Century. (Chattanooga:
Judge David Campbell, 1926).

That is not an accurate book. It’s a mixture of historical fact with a lot of fiction.

None of the references above says anything about a ‘Moytoy tree,’ They are histories which include the man called Moytoy. They dion’t include genealogical information because it doesn’t exist. Some of the books are well-documented scholarly references.

Year 1796. (Nashville: Methodist Episcopal Publishing House, 1891).
• Litton, Gaston L. "The Principal Chiefs of the Cherokee Nation" (http://digital.library.okstate.edu/Chronicles/
v015/v015p253.html), Chronicles of Oklahoma 15:3 (September 1937)

CHEROKEE CHIEFS EARLY 1700S TO PRESENT
KNOWN CHIEFS OF THE CHEROKEES
1 - Amatoya Moytoy of Chota (pronounced mah-tie) was a Cherokee town chief of the early eighteenth century in the area of present-day Tennessee. He held a prominent position among the Cherokee, and held the hereditary title Ama Matai (From the French matai and Cherokee ama謡ater). Which meant "Water Conjurer"? He ruled the town of Chota sometime between the beginning of the eighteenth century and 1730. He was born around 1640 and probably died in 1730. His mother was Quatsie of Tellico, Tennessee and his father was a European, Thomas Pasmere Carpenter, who was descended from a prominent Anglo-Norman family. This lineage makes the Cherokee Moytoys cousins of the Carpenter Earl of Tyconnell,, and thus related to the current British royal family.

2 - Moytoy Pigeon of Tellico, Principal Chief and Emperor of the Cherokee ("Trader Tom" Carpenter) was the leading chief of the Cherokee from April 3.1730 to 1760. He was also created "Emperor of the Cherokees" by the British envoy Sir Alexander Cumin in 1730, and had previously been Chief of Great Tellico. He is known as Moytoy II, or Moytoy the Younger. He was born around 1687 hi Tellico. Moytoy was crowned with the "Crown of Tannassy," This crown was a traditional Cherokee hide cap covered with feathers and several hanging animal tails. It was later taken to England. He married Go-sa-du-isga and had several children. Waw-Li, married a Scottish immigrant John Joseph Vann, making the Cherokee town chief, James Vann, Moytoy's grandson.

https://www.murraycountymuseum.com/list_cc.html

Amatoya Moytoy 1640 - 1730 Founder of a Family of Chiefs
Amatoya Moytoy of Chota (pronounced mah-tie) was a Cherokee town chief of the early eighteenth century in the areaof present-day Tennessee. He held a prominent position among the Cherokee, and held the hereditary title Ama Matai(From the French matai and Cherokee ama--water), which meant "Water Conjurer."His father was a European, Thomas Pasmere Carpenter, who was descended from the noble Anglo-Norman family of Vicomte Guillaume de Melun le Carpentier. Thus, Moytoy's European lineage can be traced to the Frankish DukeAnsegisel of Metz Meroving, Peppin II, and Charles Martel. This ancestry also makes the Cherokee Moytoys cousinsto the Carpenter Earl of Tyrconnell, and thus related to the current British royal family.The Carpenter family of Devonshire & Plymouth England were small sailing ship owners, many of which were leasedout to the East India Trading Company, an affiliation dating to the formation of that company December 31, 1600.Documented ownership of fifteen different ships owned by the Carpenter family, those of which were involved withmoving furs between the Gulf Ports & Glasgow, or Dublin, and trade goods for North America. These ships usuallymade stops both directions at Barbados where the family had banking connections set up. These ships were small andfast, often able to make the crossing from Scotland and Ireland in less than thirty days. They were shallow draft ships,capable of handling shallow water ports with ease. The first documented trip made by Thomas Pasmere Carpenter occurred April 1640, sailing from Maryland to Barbados aboard the Hopewell, and returning on the Crispian inSeptember 1640. He made another trip in March 1659 departing Charleston South Carolina aboard the BarbadosMerchant, returning on the Concord in August 1659.Twenty year old Thomas Pasmere Carpenter came to Jamestown, Virginia from England in 1627, living in a cave near the Shawnee. Thomas was called "Cornplanter" by the Shawnee, derived from their sign language that matched as near as possible to the work of a carpenter. He married a Shawnee woman named "Pride" and bore a son around 1635 named Trader Carpenter

https://www.scribd.com/document/46822360/Chief-Moytoy-of-Tellico

The Tudor line is likely to resemble the Stuart line and come from haplogroup R1b-L21. The Plantagenets are a bit more difficult to predict as some speculate that they are related to the Carpetian kings of France and descended from Roman citizens in the haplogroup J2 or G2. However, early sources attribute them as Germanic Franks13 and thus more likely to be another branch of R1b-U106.

Haplogroup J2a (Y-DNA) (T;T) Ancestral Alleles. And also Haplogroup G2a2b2a1a1a (Y-DNA) (C;C) Ancestral Alleles.

Haplotype / haplogroup: M-269 R-P 312 gs262.

There's a line from Adele d'Anjou (Her father is Fulk / Foulques the Red "King of Jerusalem") that is not not listed.

Here's the lineage.

Fulk / Foulques "The Red" Anjou
b. 870 d. 938
Married: Rocille de Loches or (Rosalie.)

Father of:

Adele (Adelaide) of ANJOU (de VEXIN) Countess of VEXIN
Born: abt. 924
Married: Walter Vexin (Gauthier I, Comte du Vexin) b. 920 d. 987

Gauthier I, comte du Vexin's father is: Raoul d'Gouy, comte d'estrovent, Raoul's mother is: Helwig di Friuli, Helwig's mother is: Gisela of Cysoing, daughter of Judith and Louis, Gisela's father is Louis I, The Pious, and Louis's father is Charlemagne.

(Walter and Adele's son is Gauthier II)

34 Adele Anjou b: Abt. 920 AD in Anjou, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France, d: 1026 in France

33 Gauthier de Mantes II b: Abt. 952 AD in Vexin, Normandy, France
(Gauthier II Comte du Vexin, de Valois et d'Amiens)

32 Walter de Gouye III b: Unknown in Unknown

31 Herve Melun b: Abt. 1042 ; de Melun

30 William Melun b: Unknown

29 William “The Carpentier” Melun b: 1065 in Unknown; formerly Carpentier

28 Godwin le Carpentier b: 1100 in Melun, France, d: 1194 in Normandy, France

27 Reynaud le Carpentier b: 1145 in Yorkshire, England, d: 1202 in Picardie, France

26 Ailric le Carpentier b: 1166 in Yorkshire, England, d: 1212 in Picardie, France

25 Elgan le Carpentier b: 1202 in Oxfordshire, England, d: 1267 in Oxfordshire,England

24 Siger le Carpentier

23 Jehan le Carpentier b: 1250 in Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France, d: 1280 in Lambert,Belgium

22 Maurice le Carpentier b: 1280 in West Vlaanderen, Belguim, d: 1337 in Gloucestershire, England

21 John Carpenter b: 1303 in Herefordshire, England; Jean le Carpentier, d: 1336 in Herefordshire, England

20 Richard Carpenter b: 1335 in London, England, d: 1395 in London,England

19 John Carpenter b: 1372 in London, England; John “The Elder” Carpenter, d: 1413 in England

18 John Carpenter b: 1410 in Hertfordshire, England; John “The Younger” Carpenter, d: 1476 in Worcestershire, England

17 William Carpenter b: 1440 in Hertfordshire, England, d: 1520 in Herefordshire, England; William “of Homme” Carpenter

16 James Carpenter b: 1460 in Herefordshire, England, d: 1537 in Herefordshire, England

15 John Carpenter b: 1525 in Barnstaple, Devon, England, d: 1588 in Barnstaple, Devon, England

14 William Thomas Carpenter b: 1549 in Barnstaple, Devon,
England, d: 1622 in Broadhembury, Devon, England

13 Robert Carpenter b: 1578 ; Robert “of Marden” Carpenter, d: 1651

12 Thomas Pasmere Carpenter b: 1607 in Plymouth, Devon,
England, d: 1675 in Running Water Village, Tennessee

11 Amatoya Moytoy b: 1640, d: 1730

10 Old Hop Moytoy b: 1690, d: 1761

9 Sookie Granny Grasshopper HOPPER MOYTOY b:
1730 in Chota, Cherokee, North Carolina, d: 1820 in
Cherokee, Washington, Tennessee

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4723-Dissection-of-the-Y-SN...

House of Moytoy
The House of Moytoy (pronounced "Mah-tie"), or Moytoy-Carpenter, was a prominent family of Overhill Cherokee chiefs during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. The family name is derived from the Cherokee title "Ama Matai", meaning "Water Conjurer", a title which was hereditary in the family. In 1730 Chief Moytoy II gained recognition as the "Emperor of the Cherokees" by British envoy Sir Alexander Cumming. The family lost most of its influence when the capital city of Chota-Tanasi was destroyed by the Continental Army in 1782. Notable members include:

*Moytoy I, Chief of Chota; born around 1640 and probably died in 1730; was leading chief at the time of his death
*Moytoy II, Emperor of the Cherokees and Chief of Great Tellico; son of Moytoy I; born around 1687; leading chief from 1730 to 1760
*Moytoy III
*Moytoy IV, Raven of Chota
*Kanagatucko, Old Hop; leading chief from 1760-1761.
*Attacullaculla, Prince of Chota-Tanasi; born around 1708, died around 1777; leading chief from 1761 to around 1775
*Oconostota, Warrior of Chota and Beloved Man of the Cherokee; born ca. 1710 and died in 1783; was war chief of the Cherokee Nation from 1775 to 1780
*Nancy Ward, Beloved Woman of the Cherokee and granddaughter of Moytoy I
*Major Ridge, grandson of Oconostota and of Attacullaculla
*General Stand Watie, great-grandson of Oconostota and of Attacullaculla

Origins

The Moytoy family, although prominent among the Cherokee tribe, were of English and Shawnee origin. They are male-line descendants of an English trader, Thomas Pasmere Carpenter, whose family was related to Baron Carpenter of Killaghy and the Earl of Tyrconnell. The Carpenter men became known among the Cherokee and Shawnee for their ability to find water using branches of the willow tree. This earned them the title "Ama Matai" ("Water Conjurer").

Academic Dictionaries and Encyclopedias
www.enacademic.com
http://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/8011144

I am familiar with many of these references, and there are some excellent ones in your postings, thank you!

I am also familiar with spurious pedigrees (see the Geni projects https://www.geni.com/projects/Spurious-Pedigrees/10512 and https://www.geni.com/projects/Fictional-Genealogy/8908 and their related projects).

It’s great that you’ve highlighted a couple more for inclusion in these projects.

The James Scrolls are fictional genealogy. I think they might originate in a mixup of James Passmore, a carpenter at Jamestown, with the nickname “Little Carpenter” for Attakalluka. It’s a graft.

I will address the Plantagenet thing after I read it more thoroughly.

You're welcome.

This is the tree for the Robert Carpenter, of Plymouth referred to.

My suggestion would be to check Carpenter Cousins to verify the descent. This family organization has hired a top rated genealogist who updates his reports every couple of years.

The descent lines for these Carpenter families is to New England.

I have corresponded with the site administrator, who is also familiar with current DNA projects.

You may contact through the site

http://carpentercousins.com

This by the way is the tree for Robert Carpenter, 'the elder', of Marden

Which is of course a very different location from Devon.

Erica Howton Yes see above

William Thomas Carpenter b: 1549 in Barnstaple, Devon,
England, d: 1622 in Broadhembury, Devon, England

13 Robert Carpenter b: 1578 ; Robert “of Marden” Carpenter, d: 1651

12 Thomas Pasmere Carpenter b: 1607 in Plymouth, Devon,
England, d: 1675 in Running Water Village, Tennessee

11 Amatoya Moytoy b: 1640, d: 1730

10 Old Hop Moytoy b: 1690, d: 1761

9 Sookie Granny Grasshopper HOPPER MOYTOY b:
1730 in Chota, Cherokee, North Carolina, d: 1820 in
Cherokee, Washington, Tennessee

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4723-Dissection-of-the-Y-SN...

A link to this article is posted in our Cherokee Genealogy Project

http://www.indianreservations.net/2017/10/more-on-mythical-story-of...

Carpenter Cousins should know if there had been a ship owning Carpenter family as described / debunked here

http://www.indianreservations.net/2017/07/thomas-pasmere-carpenter-...

I’m a little at a loss about how to address the claims of Tudor & Plantagenet Ancestry.

However Americans with Royal Descent have been identified in a number of published books; some claims have been “broken,” some new lines identified: we’ve tried to capture them in Geni projects also

https://www.geni.com/projects/Southern-Gateway-Ancestors-of-Proven-...

So the pedigree to Plantagenet could be copy / pasted there for “stress testing.”

Erica Howton https://books.google.com/books?id=gwFUCAAAQBAJ&pg=PT1171&lp...

Link above says the ships owned by the Carpenter family were leased out to the East India Trading Company and there is documentation of at least 15 different ships owned by the Carpenters.

@Erica Howton http://mornstarz.blogspot.com/2008/04/4-thomas-pasmere-carpenter-co...

That blog is pretty funny as if going back and forth to Barbados is some kind of problem.

The NOLA port registry has who came in from there bringing ship full of incoming T gened communals for slavery.

So, we should look up the records and see if the port dockets recorded it because they recorded everything.

Will look for a Thomas Carpenter. Found his sidekick Hicks in Antiqua with Capt Lighfoot.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015008455175;view=1up;...

Jump to Page 64 -

William Carpenter Ship's Name - Bevis - New England Parish - Weymouth, Mass/Rehoboth, Mass - Reference Pope

Jump to Page 177 Thomas Carpenter - Reference Pope

Jump to Page 200 Thomas & William Carpenter

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015008455175;view=1up;...

https://books.google.com/books?id=gwFUCAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontco...

http://americanindianregistry.org/genealogy/Example_Only__CherokeeH...

https://www.allthingscherokee.com/queries/amatoya-rainmaker-moytoy/

https://books.google.com/books?id=uPsmCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA64&lpg=...

To the amazement of probably almost everyone, these wild, free Cherokees knelt. Cuming asked them to select one of their members as an “emperor” through whom the king could deal with his new subjects.

They selected Moytoy of Great Tellico.

During the feasting that followed, Cuming learned the Cherokees used a cap of red-dyed possum fur in elevating a chief to “Beloved Headman,” the Brewers wrote.

Cuming then asked for a possum fur crown to present to King George.

He also asked for one or more Cherokee leaders to accompany him to England to the king’s court. None appeared eager to cross the great waters.

Then, a trader, Eleazar Wiggan, thought of a young chief who might be willing to go. Sure enough, Ukeanequa (White Owl) agreed to go and once he stepped forth, six other young men volunteered to join him.

After a few weeks of sailing, Cuming and the seven Cherokees dined with King George and presented him with the possum fur crown. They also met with England’s Board of Trade and Plantations in America.

The Cherokees were presented with royal gifts and, dressed in English clothing, had their likenesses engraved by an artist. An engraving from the artwork is in the British Museum today.

The Cherokees, impressed, returned and urged the tribe to maintain a steadfast friendship with the English.

This whole scenario helped bring dominion of North America to English-speaking people.

And they say history is dull.

Real history, folks, isn’t dull. What’s actually taught in schools and the way it is presented, though, can be very dull indeed.

========

Larry Stroud is the associate editor of the Batesville Daily Guard. He can be reached at larrydstroud@yahoo.com or at the Guard office at (870) 793-2383.

Freda Cruse Phillips comments
-Freda Cruse Phillips to Larry Stroud, Feb 18, 2011

Larry --- I have to find this -- I can't believe that someone has actually written this down - we have heard and told and retold this story in our family for nearly 300 years now!!!! OMG!!! I had no idea anyone had written it down. It is the line of Moytoys' Onoconostata that I am descended from - and Francis Fivekiller Ward - members of the delgation to king george II in 1730 andwhose portraits hang in the british royal musem in london "Trustees of Georgia" painting - I am so excited and you are so incredible.

Freda Cruse Phillips Story
-Freda Cruse Phillips to Larry Stroud, Feb 23, 2011

In 1969 when I was 11, about to turn 12, my sister was a college student at ASU Jonesboro. She had my nephew Andy who was born in April. I went to babysit that summer while she took classes. I didn't know that when you called on a pay phone from Jonesboro to my friends house and billed it to my momma and daddy's house that it would cost an arm and a leg. I made a few of those calls. When the phone bill came in the cost was $51.00. My punishment was 51 days with my great grand father, John Richard Chitwood. He was born in either 1867 or 1877.... we're not sure - but we think 1877. So, in 1969 he was 92 years old or 102 years old. He died in 1974. He would walk 3 miles from his house to ours and be waiting on the front porch for Momma to cook breakfast. After we'd eat, it was my job to walk him home. Sometimes I'd spend the day, and sometimes I'd only walk part way, sometimes we'd go visit other people. But I got to work $1.00 off for each time I spent with grandpa --- but I had to write down what we did or talked about and give it to Momma and Daddy. Years later my momma gave me all the notes I had wrote and I put them on the computer.... I don't know what I did with the original notes. I wish I had them ... for the most part I think it is exactly like I wrote it.... SO

LARRY - here is the story from my great grand father John R Chitwood --- following the Indian Line ----

Son of William Chitwood and Sarah Fulks
Sarah Fulks daughter of Elias Fulks and Martha Houston Grigsby (cousin to John P Houston first clerk of Izard County and Sam Houston - First Pres of Texas)
Elias son of David Tahnahtee Fulks and Catherine Katy Walker
David son of John Fulks and Chickasaw woman
John Fulks son of Matthew Fulks (1713-1743) and Senado Woman
Catherine Katy Walker daughter of Elias Sr Walker and Barbara Davis
Elias Walker son of Chief John Walker and Elizabeth Kittegusta
Elizabeth Kittgusta daughter of Chief Fivekiller Francis Ward Kittegusta Moytoy and Tame Doe Moytoy aka Catherine Carpenter
Francis Ward was born in England and is the son of Edward Ward of England - his siblings are Bryant, Lucy, John Jack
Tame Doe is the daughter of Tom Carpenter and Nancy Broom Rainmaker Moytoy
Nancy Broom is the daughter of Amatoya Moytoy and Wuatsy of Tellico.
Amatoya was 90 when he died in 1730 while the delegation was gone to England. White Owl (II) Attakullakulla Carptenter 1708-1777 was made the new Emporer of the Cherokee upon their return from England. He was a brother to Tame Doe, Killaneca (The Buck Raven) and Betsey ---- this is alot of information but it helps make the story I wrote down of my great grandfather's make sense....

Day 32
Grandpa found a dead possum in the ditch past Aunt Ethel’s house on the way home today. When we got to the house we skinned it – nailed the hide to a big cypress board – head, tail, arms and legs still on it. When grandpa was a little boy about 10 years old his grandma Sarah Chitwood who was born in 1840’s told him a story about how a hundred years before she was born her grandpa was made Chief Fivekiller of the Cherokee and was from England. King George crowned their family as the Royal family of the Cherokee. Grandma Catherine Carpenter whose Indian name was Tame Doe, her momma was Nancy Broom an Indian and her daddy was Tom Carpenter a white man, didn’t go with them, but sent her brothers White Owl and Killaneck. Their grand father Amatoy Moytoy, Nancy’s daddy, was to be crowned the Emperor of the Cherokee by King George. They invited him to come to England and be officially crowned but since he was ill and couldn’t go, White Owl, said he would gladly go. Grandpa Tom and Grandma Nancy stayed here with her daddy. He died while they were gone to England. Her grandpa, Chief Francis Ward Fivekiller, uncles White Owl and Killaneck, brothers of her grandmother Catherine - Tame Doe, and his adopted brothers Stalking Turkey (Oconostota), Clogitah, Tathtowel, and a few others went.

Now this fella Comings that was doing the negotiating with them was working for the King and had told them that they all had to kneel before the King in order for their grand father to be made Emperor of the Cherokee, so they all got down on their knees. Grandpa and I started making a talking stick and took down a fox tail he had dried to put on the end. He had told me that in order to be allowed to talk that you had to have the talking stick in your hand. If you had it in your hand you were allowed to hit the other people who interrupted in the head with it and until you gave it up you were the only one to talk.

As we stretched out the possum for drying grandpa said he’d make me a possum crown like our great grand father Amatoy had. He had sent a possum crown to King George by his grandson White Owl. His mother was Nancy Broom. He guessed she was a broom maker because they got their names from things in nature and things that they did. She was also a Rainmaker. She made the crown for her father and for the King out of the finest fat possums and dyed them red with elderberry mash. Red was a sign of power and having a crown made of possum was an important status. The possum could climb a tree and hang by his tail – he could see the world from many different perspectives – so wise leaders wore hats more like big fur bands or crowns of possum fur.

Grandmother Nancy Broom made the finest crown and sent it with her son White Owl to England to give to the King. The King had wanted to join their family to his because that’s what Kings did. They married their children to other royal children in order to make family so that they wouldn’t make war on each other. This fella Comings that had come with the Wards to America, asked them to come to England so the King could unite the two counties and the two families. Francis Ward an English man and friend of Comings was married to grandma Tame Doe. She was part White, her daddy was Tom Carpenter and her mother Nancy Broom. Francis was made Chief Fivekiller of the Cherokee and went with them back to England. There King George told that the Ward family would marry these sons and daughters of the Emperor of the Cherokee thus making them forever family. They would learn to read and write English which Aunt Lucy and her nephew Sequyah worked on that part creating a written language of the Cherokee for the King. Grandpa Amatoy died while they were gone and when they got back White Owl was made the new emperor. Grandpa says that I should have my possum crown by my birthday.

http://www.frozentrail.org/anamal/PossumCrown.html

Rex on March 5, 2016 at 6:11 pm
It is important to point out that after Ostenaco (Cherokee) visited London in 1763 and met King George II he returned to the U.S. and sent letters to an Irish woman named Lucy Ward who was a “Lady in Waiting” to the Queen of England. She ended up moving to the U.S. and married Ostenaco. Lucy Ward’s and her brother were relatives of Nancy Ward’s white husband (can’t recall off my head how – perhaps cousins). Nancy Ward wasn’t fully Cherokee. This is a fact. Her mother was a sister of Ada’gal’kala (Attakullakulla) who himself was Nipissing by birth and adopted by Moytoy or Tellico. That means either Nanyehi’s mother was Nipissing or she was merely an “adopted” sister of Ada the same way Tsiyu Gansini (Dragging Canoe) has been called an adopted “son” of Ada. Tsiyu was Natchez by birth. Claiming Nancy Ward was actually Native American requires as much speculation as claiming she was half white. The fact is there is zero evidence either way. What can be known is she was a traitor who repeatedly warned white people of Dragging Canoe’s attacks. So if she wasn’t white she was an apple.

REPLY
contact@jonathanrex.com'
Rex on March 5, 2016 at 6:29 pm
Unless Nanyehi was a member of the Moytoy family and then that’s a whole different story as all of the Moytoys were descendants of a white man named Thomas Passmere Carpenter who was himself the son of a John Carpenter. This is why Attakullakulla was actually called “Little Carpenter” by whites. John Carpenter in the 1620’s owned a fleet of 16 ships and banked in Barbados. He leased his ships to the India Trading Company and his son Thomas moved from London to Jamestown in 1627 at the age of 20 where ge married a daughter of Opechanacanough (uncle of Matoaka) to establish peace between Opechanacanough and the British (the Powhatans were at war with them after Pocahontas and Wahunsenacawh died. Thomas then moved with his Indian wife to the mountains and presumably that is when the Chouraqui (Cherokee in French) and Cha Raccia (Cherokee in Hebrew) began forming. The Cherokee has no history anywhere prior to the 1620’s. Unless there is some archealogical evidence somewhere I’ve never heard anything about.

REPLY
contact@jonathanrex.com'
Rex on March 5, 2016 at 7:58 pm
My personal pet peeve is when liars attack others who are telling the truth and call them liars and others believe the real liars and demonize those telling the truth. My people call those people witches. Or simply devils. You can always spot them because they flee from the truth. Shine light on the shadow walkers and they disappear.

REPLY
contact@jonathanrex.com'
Rex on March 6, 2016 at 5:31 pm
Correction, the father of Thomas Carpenter was Robert Carpenter, not John. The Carpenters were related to the Nobility in England and France and descended from William “le Carpenter” of Melun. The only reason the King of France (before he became the King) wanted to visit the Cherokee and stayed with them was because all of the European nobles knew what other families of the European nobility were doing. When they weren’t at war they intermarried. The name Amatoya Moytoy comes from Ama (Tsalagi) and Matai (French). It meant Water Master or “To Master Water”. Any other explanation of the name’s meaning is a fiction. Amadohi meant “Water Traveller” or “To go by water” if I’m not mistsken. The only reason Sir Alexander Cumming went to the Cherokee from Scotland was because he was sent on an unofficial mission to bring 7 Moytoy Delegates back to King George. Moytoy was named Emperor because he was the son grandson of Thomas Carpenter (Moytoy’s father was a Trader Tom Carpenter Jr.) who created the Cherokee by merging various different villages together. Today Cherokee swear they never had a nobility but this is nonsense. The various Clans already existed prior to the Cherokee but were merged into the Cherokee as a tribe. The “Nation” of Cherokee didn’t begin to take form until the mid 1700’s. When Moytoy of Tellico died his son was given a royal procession in Charles Town, South Carolina attended by over a thousand Cherokee by two separate accounts. He was carried on a litter. All of the Moytoys were called Princes by the British and French and the hundreds of Moytoy daughters were viewed as and treated as princesses by whites. Most of them married prominant white men from the British and French and this is why so many white people have the “Great-Grandmother Princess” story. With the American Revolution that all fell apart. The Americans weren’t about to recognize Cherokee nobility while rejecting their own back in Europe.

https://peopleofonefire.com/historic-map-the-cherokee-nation-in-181...

This is the Geni tree for William "of the Bevis" Carpenter

He is quite a famous ancestor to many in New England, & I do not think his exact family has been identified as yet.

Please do not confuse the Wiltshire families of Carpenters, who were puritans, with the Devon families of Carpenters.

You are researching the Devon families.

Your first step could be to identify any who settled in Southern USA. I don’t think there were, I believe there was a misidentification with Thomas Passmere, who was a carpenter by trade, not family. But the arrivers to Jamestown have been pretty much identified.