Lady Joan Fitzgerald, Duchess of Ormond - Lady Joan had no children with Sir Francis Bryan

Thank you for posting that Amy Cote and Marvin Welborn. I have multiple matches for surname Bryan and the same Bryan line. It is a direct line from my Grandmother's ancestors and includes multiple Warren/Plantagenet/Cornwall matches as well as Bourchier (not as many Bourchier). All of my Bryan matches match the pedigree perfectly (that is before it the tree became fragmented and disconnected). All of my Bryan matches are on chromosome 2. Every end location number matches precisely. I have no doubt; this is the Bryan line in question. My DNA match is to a descendant of James Bryant Jr..b. 1686-/1690 Isle Wight,,Virginia,USA, d. 1751 Northhampton NC, USA. The common ancestor between my Bryan's and my matches Bryan is Sir Thomas Bryan, II, Kt. b. 06/01/1464. My MRA in the Bryan line is Hannah McDaniel (Bryan) b. 1770, married to Henry McDaniel. She is my 4th GGM so that's pretty close. Anyway, this is a line you used to be able to research and it was true before it got disconnected. I also have Fitzgerald ancestors so they got disconnected in the process along with my Bourchier, Plantagenet's and other ancestors so this makes it harder but not impossible to research, but only if you ignore all the disconnects and research from there to see if any of it matches or is true by DNA before agreeing with any disconnect. The mystery of who Sir Francis Bryan's parent of his son is NN. I think Joan hated him. Did they have a child before they married? How could she hide it if true? If they did, he would be illegitimate. If his son is by another Woman, who is she? I have 6 matches to my Bryan ancestors. The oldest common ancestor is Sir Thomas Bryan, II, Kt. b. 06/01/1464. I also have a perfect match to Sir Francis Bryan himself so that means these Bryan's are all related to each other, upline from Sir Francis Bryan and downline from him by surname Bryan (before the tree was disconnected) and sideways through various Bryan Cousins. There is no other way they are related to each other except by this path. I also have DNA matches to other nearby family members including Boone (de Bohun), Stafford, Butler, and many many more who match by DNA, Surname and End Location Number. Everything lines up and matches the pedigree. There is no way it would line up and match the pedigree by coincidence. It matches because the pedigree is correct and should not be disconnected. At the very least, one can post Sir Francis Bryan's Mother as either illegitimate or NN.

Clarification: At the very least, one can post Sir Francis Bryan's Mother as either illegitimate or NN. Sir Francis Bryan's illegitimate son Sir Francis Bryan II.

Private User It is certainly possible the (debauched) Vicar of Hell had children we don’t know about. But that’s the point: if we don’t know, it’s speculative, and cannot be linked on Geni in the historic tree. This is no different from any other situation.

I (theoretically) descend from Edward lll. So (theoretically) all (200 million ??) of us have DNA in common.

I updated Links to Geni profiles in Francis Bryan, {possibly fictional} to make it easier to navigate and examine evidence for oneself.

I do not see any records for this Francis, just references to old pedigrees.

Thank you Erica. :) I am researching other surnames nearby to see what might be hidden in DNA matches. I do not have any Strode ancestors but searched for Strode because they are connected to Morgan, Smythe and Watson, etc. I also searched for Watson but not thoroughly as it appears I have several Watson lines and that will take time to sort out. I found Strode connected to Smythe and some Strode matches have Smythe DNA hidden in the matches, but not many. In one of the Watson matches I found a disconnected Bryan who is connected to the Sir Francis Bryan line via a Morgan.

His Bryan ancestors are NN but his Morgans connect to Bryan and the same family and a Bryan DNA segment shows up in this match. Interesting. His ancestors have Brian, Bryan, Morgan. Solomon Morgan Brian, Nice! this cousin Solomon Morgan Brian, in his tree matches both Bryan and Morgan for DNA matches. Roland Morgan is the common ancestor. There are an enormous amount of matches to Roland and they do not all match each other so I am just going to add him to the database and keep sorting out Morgans till we know for sure which line is Roland's. The nice thing about this match it is a high cM/SNP match so it's pretty solid. That's 4 matches on chromosome 11, @ 10.24 cM and 3800 SNPs with two of them having Roland Morgan as the common ancestor. His Brian matches Bryan from the same family.

excellent work there, Wanda. BTW, is has become known to us now that Francis Bryan I "The Vicar of Hell," a nickname his cousin Anne Boleyn gave him, was a "Rogue." It's entirely not inconceivable that he did not have illegitimate children running amok.

BTW, I've had my DNA tested by Ancestry(atDNA), MyHeritage(atDNA), and FTDNA Y111, MTDNA, & atDNA. I've pulled the FTDNA Bryan DNA site records and check.... is that where you got your results?

For what it's worth, Marvin, I have DNA matches with several Welborn descendants from your line, including your cousin Sandra--perhaps one of my brick walls is hiding Welborn ancestors. I'll let you know if I find another Bryan who shares our chromosome segment (making it a "triangulated segment" from a proven Bryan ancestor).

I tested at FTDNA, but I have uploaded my kit to MyHeritage and GEDMatch. Looks like I'm Amy Nordahl (maiden name) at some sites and Amy Cote (married name) at others.

I haven't found any solid evidence that there was a Francis Bryan II (and I've been looking!). He appears in many family trees, but there don't seem to be any records from his lifetime or even shortly afterward. A legitimate son of Sir Francis and Lady Joan should have left records (court records, probate records, church records, a letter or diary entry...), or should have at least appeared in a Visitation, Burke's Peerage, etc. If he was "Sir" Francis, like his father, there would be a record of his knighthood. If he was Justiciar of Ireland, like his father, there would be many records showing this as well. These two families (Sir Francis's and Lady Joan's) are so historically-significant, that it doesn't seem possible for them to have a son without leaving even a bit of gossip in a letter. The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that the "poore boy" was an illegitimate son. I would love to be proved wrong.

Stories of our connection to this specific Bryan family have been going around for so long, though, that I wonder if there are New World Bryans who connect to Sir Francis as a cousin. I don't know if there are any male-line descendants of this family in Britain or Ireland, but YDNA testing could at least sort out who is related to whom on our side of the ocean.

Speaking of YDNA, the Bryan DNA Project has placed Cornelius Bryan descendants and Morgan Bryan descendants in separate groups, showing that Morgan and Cornelius were not from the same Bryan family.

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/bryan/8081/

So if the Francis Bryan family has descendants in the New World, the question is: which Bryans?

I can't tell which group the William, Lewis, and/or Edward descendants might be in, assuming some men from our lines have tested, but it will be very interesting to see how the testing turns out. It's difficult (often impossible) to make solid conclusions with autosomal DNA, but YDNA is different.

If anyone can identify other testers in the DNA project, I'd love to hear from you--there isn't a lot of information out there about the Bryan testers.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bryan/default.aspx?section=yre...

Amy, I’ll expand your thoughts. You were the one who pointed out that the document basis for “at least one illigitimate son” in the HOP article could have referred to his STEP son Henry by Phillipa’s first marriage. This ties in neatly with the point : would he really have referred to a grown son on his death bed and as “poor boy” with news to be taken to Warwick & Herbert? Whatever for? Sir Francis was asking his (very powerful) friends to look out for “poor boy.” The chances they didn’t are low. And let’s not forget Joan FitzGerald later had a cordial enough relationship with Queen Elizabeth. If she had suspected funny business around her mother’s cousin’s son, wouldn’t there be a sniff of it?

I think there’s only two reasons for a child of Sir Francis to have no record

- he was illigitimate and then whatever, but not a property owner in County Clare. Sir Francis did not seem to have holdings there he passed on (?).

- Joan & Sir Francis did have a male child who died young.

I just can’t imagine a surviving son disappeared into County Clare.

Amy, For your information, my Gedmatch numbers are
A292502 (Ancestry)
T316793 (FTDNA)
A182157 (Ancestry)
H111765 (MyHeritage)

My Genesis numbers are
PV1099041 (Ancestry)
YD6120745 (FTDNA)
FN5297119 (MyHeritage)

My connection to Francis Bryan I is as follows:

1 Francis BRYAN I, 11G Grandfather
& Unknown ???
2 Sir Francis II BRYAN Justicar of Ireland, 10G Grandfather
& Ann Smyth Smythe SMITH Lady of Claire Ireland, 10G Grandmother
3 William (Smith) Bryan, 9G Grandfather
& Catherine Bryan MORGAN Countess Ormond, 9G Grandmother
4 John Smith BRYAN of Nansemond, 8G Grandfather
& Sarah Bryan BRINKER, 8G Grandmother
5 William I (Smith) BRYAN, 7G Grandfather
& Alice MacLand or Needham, 7G Grandmother
6 Mary W BRYAN, 7G Grandmother
& John LEE ESQ. of Johnston County, North Carolina, 7G Grandfather
8 Edward G Lee Sr, 6G Grandfather
& Mary Lee ALLEN, 6G Grandmother
10 Lemuel “Lom” Samuel LEE, 5G Grandfather
& Ann Mary Raines, 5G Grandmother
12 William Samuel LEE, GGGG Grandfather
& Eliza Dicey Ennis, GGGG Grandmother
14 Britton LEE, GGG Grandfather
& Martha Patsey Lee (Collier), GGG Grandmother
17 William M (Manassas) “Will” Lee, GG Grandfather
& Malissa (Melissa Mariliza) LEE Allen, GG Grandmother
20 Edith Lucinda LEE, G Grandmother
& Edgar Jackson Smith (DNA Markers: R1b1a2a1a1b), G Grandfather
23 Henry Loyd SMITH Sr., Grandfather
& Alice Elmyra HENLEY, Grandmother
26 Geneva Allene SMITH**, Mother
& Henry Marvin (Toad) WELBORN, Father
7 William G Bryan Jr, 6G Grandfather
& Catherine King, 6G Grandmother
9 Michael Bryant, 5G Grandfather
& undetermined LNU, 5G Grandmother
11 Needham Bryan, GGGG Grandfather
& undetermined LNU, GGGG Grandmother
13 Sarah Elizabeth Bryant, GGG Grandmother
& William (Billy) Younger Welborn Sr., GGG Grandfather
15 G. M. “Younger” Welborn, GG Grandfather
& Sarah Elizabeth Dykes, GG Grandmother
18 Calhoun H WELBORN, G Grandfather
& Francis "Fannie" Pernerviane Davis, G Grandmother
21 Henry Marvin WELBORN Sr.**, Grandfather
& Emma Corine BOMBARD, Grandmother
24 Henry Marvin (Toad) WELBORN**, Father
& Geneva Allene SMITH, Mother
27 Marvin Loyd WELBORN*, Source
& Arlene Doris Duncanson-Taylor
27 Marvin Loyd WELBORN*, Source
& Linda Michelle Brannick
and…. (with some endogamy)
16 Elizabeth Emmaline Welborn, GGG Grandmother
& Robert W Bynum, GGG Grandfather
19 Isabelle Bynum, GG Grandmother
& Joel Pridgen Davis, GG Grandfather
22 Emma Elizabeth "Emmaline" Bombard Davis, G Grandmother
& Charles Everett "Charlie" Bombard, G Grandfather
25 Emma Corine BOMBARD**, Grandmother
& Henry Marvin WELBORN Sr., Grandfather

Marvin, thank you for posting your gedmatch. We actually do share some DNA on chromosome 2 (where I found matches for Bryan) as well as 13 other segments, meaning we share 14 common ancestors. However, it is gedmatch and not FTDNA so I cannot tell if it is a Bryan ancestor we share or someone else. It looks promising as Needham Bryan is one of the people listed in the matches I have with other people. William Smith Bryan is a match as well as Sarah Bryan Brinker. (We don't match for Brinker) You and I do not match on FTDNA because we do not have any common ancestor whom we share at least 7cM of DNA with. Our largest match is on chromosome 17. We do match on chromosome 13 which is where I found Plantagenet, Cornwall and Warren. Again, this is gedmatch and they have no surname matching tool so there is no way to tell which ancestor we share. Family Finder does have a surname matching tool so you can map out end location numbers to surnames.

The instructions on how to do this are here:
https://www.chromosomemappingofancientbloodlines.com/howtodochromos...

https://www.slideshare.net/AncientBloodlines/chromosome-mapping-of-...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm3a1TRCmik

An example of a surname (Welles) mapped out using this method can be seen here:

https://www.chromosomemappingofancientbloodlines.com/examplesofchro...

A list of surnames we have mapped out can be seen here, which also shows you which chromosomes those surnames were found on and which other surnames share that end location number. Some are point blank because everything matches the pedigree and common ancestors are found for that line. Others are a work in progress. Bryan was one of the better lines because there were more than an average number of common ancestors found for the matches and the pedigree matched perfectly https://www.chromosomemappingofancientbloodlines.com/surname-list

Wanda, FYI, on FTDNA my kit number is 771643. If you check the Bryan Project and if you are a participant (I'm not sure you are as I do not know your Gedmatch/Genesis nor FTDNA nbr) you should find my kit listed.

Marvin,

Thank you very much. I did find you in the project. Do you believe yourself to be a Bryan rather than a Welborn, or do you match markers to others because Bryan is an ancestor of yours? The group is for YDNA which would exclude me. The Bryan map of DNA I found is through autosomal DNA matches found on chromosome 2. Do you have any autosomal matches to other Bryan's on family finder? This is important as they would be the most recent. YDNA groups can often go outside relationships past 1000 yrs. and match you to other Men who share your haplogroup which can extend past the point of records. You need both to really know if you have the right Bryan line or if you are simply being matched to any common ancestor in the Bryan line, which may not be a Bryan at all.

The Bryan matches found on a specific "End Location Number", on chromosome 2 for matches are as follows.:

John Love Bryan b. 1792
Common Ancestor: Sir Francis Bryan III b. 1630, m. Sarah Brinker
My ancestor: Hannah (Bryan) McDaniel b. 1770 (4th GGM), m. Henry McDaniel

James Bryant Jr. b. 1686/1690
Common Ancestor: Thomas Bryan II kt. b. 1464 (Before this tree was broken), m. Margaret Bowsey.
My ancestor: Hannah ((Bryan) McDaniel b. 1770 (4th GGM)

Parthenia Bryan b. 1793
Common ancestor: Sir Francis Bryan III b. 1630, m. Sarah Brinker
My ancestor: Hannah (Bryan) McDaniel
(IMPORTANT NOTE: Parthenia is a descendant of Morgan Bryan who was disconnected from the other Bryan's. Morgan Bryan IS related to the other Bryan's. Follow Parthenia's line here: https://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=joeb...

Needham Bryan b. 1690
Common ancestor: William Smith Bryan b. 1599
My ancestor: Hannah (Bryan) McDaniel

Sarah Baldwin Bryan b. 1602
Common ancestor: Thomas Bryan, Chief Justice of the Common Pleas b. 1438
My ancestor: Hannah (Bryan) McDaniel) (before this tree was broken)

Daniel Boone Bryan b. 1758
Common ancestor Sir Francis Bryan III, m. Sarah Brinker
My ancestor: Hannah (Bryan) McDaniel

Thomas Bryant b. circa 1702, m. Elizabeth Hovenden
Common ancestor NN

Ann Prillaman (O'Brient) b. 1758
Common ancestor NN

It is important to find the common ancestor between the ancestor listed in your matches tree by surname and your ancestor to be able to determine the autosomal gene flow pattern. The end location number must match exactly as it also refers to a haplogroup. If you know of any direct descendant male Bryans's of any of the Bryan's listed above, that will show you this Bryan line, Haplogroup and YDNA markers.

You, Amy Cote and I share a common Bryan ancestor. I'm trying to find your Sarah Elizabeth Bryan, Michael Bryant and their connection to Needham Bryan but cannot find them on geni. What year was your Needham Bryan born?

Thank you,
Cousin Wanda

Results of the Family Tree Bryan DNA Project:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bryan/default.aspx?section=yre...
seem to indicate that descendants of Morgan Bryan share DNA with descendants of Daniel O'Brien and others from County Clare, Ireland, under R1b Haplogroup - P312/Z290/L21/DF13/Z253/Z2534/BY25450/FGC5618/L226 etc. These results are based on yDNA tests that are only passed paternally, which would mean that Morgan Bryan's paternal ancestors are possibly Dalcassians. This would rule out Lady Joan as being the sole ancestor with that blood line.

This may also support the following theory from:
https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/b/u/s/John-S-Bush/GENE18-0015.html

"...As for Francis Bryan II trying without success to recover his lands, the historical event that is the closest I have found to that claim is the effort of William O'Brien, [son of Murrogh na Buile] of Ballincorran [Ballicincorran], a descendant of Donogh O'Brien, second earl of Thomond, to recover the title, a claim disallowed for some reason by the House of Lords. Francis O'Brien was one of the deponents supporting William O'Brien's claim of descent. See Archdall, vol. 2, page 30. It would appear that these O'Briens were native Irish (although they may have been Anglican) and not related to Sir Francis Bryan. In 1690 Daniel O'Brien, third Viscount Clare, supported the Catholic king, James II, who lost the Battle of the Boyne. The followers of James II were forced to flee to France, a Catholic country (not Denmark, a protestant country). See I. Grehan, Irish Family Histories (Boulder 1993), p. 150. In this regard one might note that on the list of Roman Catholic Officers, 1693, published on www.genealogy-quest.com/collections/rcoffi.html, there appears on the list one CAPT. MORGAN BRYAN of King's County, Ireland."

Keith William Schindler Nice, this story actually makes sense.

@Erica Howton Thanks! Here is the actual source showing the arrest of Captain Morgan Bryan as a Roman Catholic officer under general order of William and Mary:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027087471;view=1up;...

Wanda,
as regards your question: "Do you believe yourself to be a Bryan rather than a Welborn?"

I am a genetic descendant of 'many' more than just Welborn/Wellborn/Welbourne. I believe myself to be Marvin Loyd Welborn, son of Marvin Henry Welborn and Geneva Smith, and grandson of some-umpteenth million great-grandparents of assorted surnames...Bryan(t) merely being only one of them many. I'm probably connected to just about everyone on this discussion list. LOL.

My mother once told us that she had Irish and French ancestry and that the Irish ancestor was a "rogue" member of Irish nobility who got into trouble and fled to America. I don't know where that information came from but in tracing our ancestry it appears that she is directly descended from Mary "Polly" Bryan who was raised by Daniel and Rebecca (Bryan) Boone after Mary's mother, the wife of James Bryan, died. The Bryan family would have been the best researched branch of my mother's ancestry.

Here is a page from the book "History of Clare and the Dalcassian Clans" that shows a Lieutenant Murrogh O'Bryan of the famous Regiment of Dragoons, reporting to Colonel Daniel O'Brien.

https://archive.org/details/historyofclareda00whit/page/280

I almost wonder if, after their defeat at the Battle of Boyne, that this individual may have chosen a more Anglicized version of his name and began to reinvent his family history where his ancestors fought on the side of William instead of James II. When he landed in America he became associated with the Quakers and later converted to Presbyterian.

Keep in mind that the DNA study I cited above seems to show a male, y chromosome, connection between the descendants of Morgan Bryan and Daniel O'Brien. This could be explained by the de Bryan and Dalcassian crossover speculated by Ivar O'Brien in his book "O'Brien of Thomond: The O'Briens in Irish History 1500-1865"

https://books.google.com/books/about/O_Brien_of_Thomond.html?id=QAN...

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mallorybrody/genealogy/Eire/Brian_Bo...

Sir de Bryan died in 1390 with no male heirs, and possibly King Brian Catha Ua Briain, upon his arrival at Dublin to swear fealty to King Richard II, it is speculated by Ivar O'Brien that the King of Thomond assumed the de Bryan symbol because of name similarity. The de Bryan arms are, "or three piles meeting in base azure." The O'Brien quarter is differenced as, "argent three piles meeting in base gules." (13)

Do we have other stories of RC > Quaker associations > Presbyterian in this time & place? Do we know how interested this family was in religious / political issues? What was the toleration environment?

Erica, according to this Wikipedia reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_the_Thirteen_Colon...

Pennsylvania was established in 1681 by a grant of 40,000 square miles to William Penn for services rendered to the crown by his father, Admiral Penn. Penn, a devout member of the Society of Friends, was impelled by desire to provide a safe home for persecuted Quakers. Penn was far in advance of his time in his views of the capacity of mankind for democratic government, and equally so in his broad-minded toleration of differences of religious belief. The first Constitution of Pennsylvania adopted by the freeholders established religious liberty, but was not accepted by the Privy Council. The Frame of Government of 1701 guaranteed liberty of conscience to all who confessed and acknowledged "one Almighty God", and made eligible for office all who believed in "Jesus Christ the Savior of the World."[19]

During the time of Lieutenant Governor Gordon a Catholic chapel was erected, which was thought to be contrary to the laws of Parliament, but it was not suppressed pending a decision of the British Government upon the question whether immunity granted by the Pennsylvania law did not protect Catholics. When, during the French War, hostility to France led to an attack upon the Catholics of Philadelphia by a mob after Braddock's defeat, the Quakers protected them.[19]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11638c.htm

while the Frame of Government of 1701 . . . guaranteed liberty of conscience to all who confessed and acknowledged 'one Almighty God, the Creator, Upholder and Ruler of the World', and made eligible for office all who believed in 'Jesus Christ the Saviour of the World.'" His toleration of other forms of religious belief was in no way half-hearted and imbued the Society of Friends with feelings of kindness towards Catholics, or at least accentuated those feelings in them. During the time of Lieutenant Governor Gordon a Catholic chapel was erected, which was thought to be contrary to the laws of Parliament, but it was not suppressed pending a decision of the British Government upon the question whether immunity granted by the Pennsylvania law did not protect Catholics. When, during the French War, hostility to France led to an attack upon the Catholics of Philadelphia by a mob after Braddock's defeat, the Quakers protected them.

I would also point out that the Dalcassians of County Clare seemed to be more interested in protecting their land rights than fighting a religious war. Even the Catholic Pope himself was reportedly on the side of the Williamites:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/battle_of_the_boyne

The Pope backs King Billy

William is celebrated to this day as a champion of Protestantism, but he was nonetheless backed by the head of the Catholic Church, Pope Alexander VIII. The Pope was part of a 'Grand Alliance' against Louis XIV's warring in Europe and supported William's reconquest of Ireland.

Where & when is Morgan Bryan earliest known as in the Colonies?

According to this, somewhere between 1695 and 1719:

https://www.ncpedia.org/biography/bryan-morgan

He didn't marry Martha Strode until 1719?? His recorded affiliation with the Quakers occured in 1719. Also his younger brother William Immigrated from Northern Ireland to Pennsylvania in 1718 and helped organize the Donegal Presbyterian Church in Lancaster County in 1721-1722.

By 1719 he owned land in Birmingham Township, Chester County, PA, according to this bio.

This is interesting and it mentions conversion of a Catholic aristocrat from Donegal County:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism_in_Ireland

The Penal Laws did encourage 5,500 Catholics, almost exclusively from the aristocracy and landed gentry, to convert to Protestantism.[31][36] In 1703, 14% of land in Ireland was owned by Catholics. However, following the conforming of the majority of these landowners by 1780, Catholics only owned 5% despite making up three-quarters of the population of Ireland.[31][36] Some of these converts were high profile, such as The 5th Earl of Antrim, whose conversion meant that in the province of Ulster there were no Catholic estates of any note.[31] Others were less so, however made the most of the opportunities that opened up for them, one example being William Conolly.[31] William Conolly was a Gaelic Catholic from Ballyshannon, County Donegal; however, in the years following his conversion to Protestantism, he would become the Speaker of the Irish House of Commons as well as Ireland's richest man despite being the son of an innkeeper.[31]

It reads like conversion to Presbyterian May have occurred in Ireland, at least for the brother.

600,000 acres of Irish land were confiscated between 1688-1691 order to pay for the Williamite War according to this:

https://www.revolvy.com/page/William-Conolly

Presbyterians in Ireland were discriminated against along with Roman Catholics under the Penal Laws enacted by the "Protestant (Anglican) Ascendancy". Around 1693 the Pope switched his support from Williamite to Jacobite. (This is around the time that a Captain Morgan Bryan, Roman Catholic officer, was captured and then released under King William):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Laws_(Ireland)

Sorry for all the posts but I think the answer may be right here:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/O%27Brien,_Daniel_(DNB00)

As I mentioned in a previous post, descendants of Morgan Bryan share y chromosome DNA (passed on by males only) with descendants of Daniel O'Brien, 1st Viscount Clare. Daniel became an ardent Catholic opposing his brother, 4th Earl of Thomond, a Protestant. This bio claims that in his old age he married Catherine, daughter of Gerald Fitzgerald (descendant of Lady Joan's third husband?) sixteenth earl of Desmond. They had a son named Murrough. Under the service of James II he raised a regiment of dragoons, called Clare's Dragoons. Notice previously I cited a reference of a Lieutenant Murrough O'Bryan (note the spelling!) serving under Daniel O'Brien (at the age of 85?) in Clare's Dragoons. There has been some speculation that Morgan is an anglicized form of the Gaelic name Murrough.