Willem Schalkz van der Merwe, SV/PROG - Sources for parents?

My question is ;; Why was not the information on Jacques de Savoye, Schalk van der Merwe and other’s, regarding their ancestors shown as unsubstantiated in the first place...Now many trees have been built relying on the information. provided by Geni, i for one presuming Geni had researched the information and found it correct., now I am lead to believe by your discussions you have no idea who these people where and what their blood lines were.

Shirley..Some genealogies were based on ancestries done by others some time ago, taking a name in France for example, & assuming it linked to a famous/noble line, & that "information" stuck, & was repeated..Some are where names which look similar to other names but are in fact different, & are linked together..Some are obvious errors, likes dates etc, being wrong..Others are speculative, ie quite possible connection, but lacking (currently) the records to prove this connection..This last one has become more important recently to the curators on Geni.

Shirley - geni is 'us' - there is nobody to blame as Geni.

Geni is the organization I subscribe to, so the information that I collect from ther data falls under itheir name (umbrella). as do those that work for the organization. I am not makeing this personal. But, cousin your reply says to me that most of the info. Is summation and probably not based on documentation once it gets beyond the original settler....disheartening.

Geni as an organization has not added a singe bit of data into the system, - the users like you and me have, so if you find errors it is the responsible users you have to blame or contact.

Danielle - RE "This last one has become more important recently to the curators on Geni." - True - but not that it wasn't important to us before - just that it was virtually impossible to police it happening. Now that we have been given a Relationship Locking tool we can remove the bogus or unproved links. We, like you and Shirley, want the tree to be historically sound - hence being prepared to have the battles that are now happening around unsourced profiles with the people who are invested in them staying. For the first time, it's worth doing because we know it won't have to happen over and over. It's improving the tree at a rapid pace :-)

PS - Shirley, the Curators are volunteers - so we don't work for Geni either :-)
Crowd-sourcing data gives a tree breadth very quickly - You will have acquired links and access to families that you couldn't have got without 'everyone' pooling their own info and resources and time. The depth of Sources bit takes longer to overlay. We're all trying to do it together. Geni is the platform being paid for - we are the data on the tree.

Geni is a vehicle users have selected to carry their precious information - as best as they believe it to be. Just to find out later other users have more accurate or complementary information.

Have I not entered my scanty "incorrect" info 10 years ago, I would not have found descendants in that missing family line also contributing the family anecdotes from the visibility they had. Together we, as users have now found the "accurate" version through our vehicle GENI.

Would like to know of other vehicles which would have provided the "correct" answer at date of entering the information. Undoubtedly those vehicles would be completely dependant on their volunteers (members) like Geni to accomplish that.

Thanks, Sharon for taking the lead on this specific one, and rest assured that there might be many more!

Geni is the only site that does seem to be demanding these proofs..On so many other ancestry sites you will see the same obviously incorrect information repeated over & over, & copied by others over & over..I feel very thankful that the first genealogy site I chose to go on was Geni..Having a South African mother, & with so many from SA on here, it has been the best place to go for starting my tree..And getting back quite far with it too..Just stuck on a few relatives, whose origins stubbornly remain elusive!

Obviously when I say Geni, I mean the voluntary curators on here!

:-)

Have cut. Anyone with primary sources - PLEASE post them :-)

In the about section there stands the following:

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Die volgende inligting is een van die grootse deurbrake vir die VAN DER MERWE familie, naamlik die konneksie met Europa Hierdie navorsing is te danke aan Rein JG Wink r.j.g.wink@freeler.nl Die waardevolle kontak persoon is Gerda Pieterse wat hard werk om kontak te te maak met ons stamlande gpieterse@intekom.co.za

----------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder what breakthrough (deurbraak) is being referred to here. Any ideas?

Yes. I wondered too. Not such a breakthrough that it's been made public, though. Pity.

Hi Sharon,
This is the ethnicities result from my dna.
It seems to back up the earlier tree before being whittled down to 500 from over 10,000 ancestors.
Not sure if this will help.
I guess the actual dna results are what count.
Hard to read and does not seem to give a summary as shown Geni profiles, which is another reason why I like Geni.
Should I resend them to you?

Ethnicities below:

Europe
99.1%
North and West Europe
78.3%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
42.6%
Scandinavian
35.7%
South Europe
16.4%
Iberian
9.3%
Greek
5.9%
Italian
1.2%
Ashkenazi Jewish
4.4%
0.9%
Native American
0.9%
Goodness knows where the red indian comes from, but "How" as they say in the old westerns.
(At 71 I remember them)

Anyway have a good day cousin.

Martin

ancestors now dropped to 414 What is going on?
Why have i wasted time and money.

Hello Martin, I am truly sorry that you are frustrated, but hang in there. For what it's worth, let me give you my 5c.

Sharon and I had a discussion a short while ago about similar issues. In that discussion I indicated that although I loved Geni, there have been times when I have been quite frustrated when either incorrect information has been loaded, or information gets changed by someone who does not have accurate information etc. There have been times when I have even confirmed a merger based on someone's information and then later regretted that I did not research it myself first. Recently, we had two cases with incorrect information, and Sharon has assisted in getting them sorted.

In the first instance, my fifth great-father had his parents changed to people with a completely different surname. Fortunately, as I had information on his death notice which indicated the names of his parents, Sharon was able to use this document to confirm and correct the information. However, while she was busy sorting things, somebody keep changing details including my great-grandfather's name. Now it could be this person did not know what they were doing, or merely had scant information on something and presumed it was correct and opted to just change information as they saw fit.

The second instance was more to do with similar names causing confusing information. This in turn lead to the incorrect parents being added. Again, we were able to correct using the information on physical evidence from her marriage contract, which listed her parents. Each time, the incorrect set of parents had to be disconnected, with the real chance of losing people assumed to be in the lineage. But rather losing supposed family members than listing incorrect family members.

In some senses, this is the beauty and the curse of Geni.

Now I do not have details about Willem Schalkz van der Merwe's parents, the only records that have been substantiated are from his arrival in South Africa. Everything beyond that is merely speculation until someone is able to supply us with this information. And while we wait for that to happen, it can be frustrating.

I'll give you one more example. I was quite young when my grandmother tried to instill details about our family into my head. At the time, it was not of much interest to me, but I guess it must have birthed something in me. Anyway, after she had passed away, it became more important to me to record what I could. Unfortunately, some things were lost, like a handwritten family tree she kept in her Bible that my uncle now possesses. He denies that there ever was such a thing, but that is a document I distinctly remember because I stumbled over the pronunciation of birth places and the occasional uncommon surname. Some of this information is now lost, but I am hoping not forever. Unfortunately, he also denies the slave heritage in my family...perhaps these are linked? Nevertheless, I had to depend on my memory for much. So, when I started, I did so with what I could recall and searched from there.

My great-grandfather was "blessed" with four names and I knew that his name was Petrus and that Stephanus was one of the four names because it was one he shared with his son-in-law, my grandfather. I also knew that Johannes was in there because of my cousin's name. But the exact order was not so clear in my mind. I knew my great-grandmother's name, and received information from the NG church in Pearston with details of my grandmother's christening. However, my great-grandfather's full name was not used, so I still could not confirm his parents with 100% certainty. I had a suspicion because of dates, but was reluctant to add this to my tree. 5 years later, I managed to find his death notice, and not only did I have confirmation of his name, which incidentally included a Jacobus that I did not recall, but included the names of his parents. With this information, I could finally add the suspected details to my tree.

This is a long-winded way of saying, "give it some time" it will eventually come together and you will learn far more than you could have imagined. But, hopefully, the information you learn is correct and accurate and not assumed or confused with someone else of the same name.

Good luck and best wishes!

Oh, I forgot to add, on your DNA test with the Native American percentage. I also have a small percentage of this, also less than 1%. In researching the information, as I am 100% sure I have no specific Native American heritage, it turns out that the DNA is originally from South Asian. This does support the assumed migration of Native Americans. Anyway, in my specific family line, it is actually Southeast Asian, or more specifically, from Indonesia. The reason is this is often highlighted as Native American is because most of the references for the tests are based here is the US. Yours could be similar to what mine is.

Hi thete Valeta,

Thanks for the input, interesting and informative.
I realize Sharon is doing sterling work and this is a very convoluted task and it is appreciated.
It is just that it is strange that all most of my scots, irish and welsh ancestors have vanished as have all the scandanavian and iberian.
My dna clearly shows this cant be correct.
Thus the confusion and frustration.
The south asian makes sense given RSA history.
With my limited skills it seems the Willem Skalk connection is the key, or was before the cut.
This connected with all the above.
It is a mistake for Geni to have advertized taking a dna test on their site with my resultant understanding that this would be active and connect in my once extensive tree, thus consolidating information.
This was not the case and despite promising this would happen over a year ago, nothing.
Not very good business practice.
However, Geni is well put together and i wish to use it, just a shame that My Heritage and Geni dont do as they say.
Anyway, enough of all that.
It seems we too are 7th cousins via the contentious van der merwe line.
You must have also lost ancestors when the cut happened, as must have Sharon?
That mysterious paragraph mentioned in the discussion about a breakthrough to the van der merwede family on Holland seems key.

Take care.
Martin

Absolutely, and we wait with abated breath for that mysterious information mentioned in that paragraph about a breakthrough on the van der Merwede family.

As for genetics...this can be a mixed bag too. I have found far more helpful links here at Geni than elsewhere. DNA is funny that way and all has to do with the nature of inheriting chunks of DNA--you never quite know what chunks until the tests. First cousins can share such little common DNA that much beyond that can become tenuous at best. All that it can tell you is what chunks of DNA come from which regions, which is useful for confirming things you may discover in your search for ancestors. In this regard, Haplogroups are a little more helpful as it can link your directly with ancestors.

Anyway, on the DNA front, I found a Kutser (later changed to Coetser) in my lineage and documents noted that he was from Austria and I was showing small chunks of DNA from Eastern Europe. At first, I could not figure out who that could be from, but turned out that my ancestor originally came from an area in a disputed part of Austria, but is now the Czech Republic. That turned out far more interesting to me than the DNA result of Eastern European!

Wishing you the best of luck with your search. It might take some time, but the rest will get sorted.

Regards,
Valeta

Guys - I'm not going to get back here before the weekend. Thanks Valeta - that pretty much sums it up perfectly.
Martin - yes - my grandfather too. Rather have facts than fantasies, though. We need to pursue sources.

The DNA test my husband and I took with
23&me has been great. We found his birth
mother and many maternal cousins. It proved
his Birth father was not the name he had been given, .he was the father, the name was his
adopted name, he had also been adopted.
my DNA showed 12% asian, 3% west african
all of which is supported by my tree. My husband
has 4% American Indian/Asian. He knows it
is American Indian, DNA does not split it out as
the originans of the American Indian was probably from parts of Asia eons ago. I am also
disturbed that more documentation was not seen
before family lines were published and hours of time wasted based on possible ancestors...the Jacques Savoy line being another ? I am a descendant of the Savoy line even though it
might not be through the SA Jacques, I hope he was not just Jacques from Savoy. 😭

Thanks for the input guys,

time will tell I guess.

One thing though.
Any news as to when Geni will integrate the My heritage dna results with my tree.
It has been pending for a long time.

have a great day.

No, Martin, there isn't. It's very frustrating.

@ Ds. Matthys Gerhardus Muller

Willem Schalkz van der Merwe, SV / PROG.

Dear Sharon!

Would it not be wise to contact the researchers of the Netherlands r.j.g.wink@freeler.nl and Gerda Pieterse, gpieterse@intekom.co.za , and then verify their research and resources. From their research you will also find the following:
http://archive.li/P3mtD#selection-2025.166-2031.23.

Their research involves approximately 14 A4 pages.
Die Volgende inligting is een van die grootse deurbrake vir die VAN DER MERWE familie, naamlik die konneksie met Europa Hierdie navorsing is te danke aan Rein JG Wink r.j.g.wink@freeler.nl Die waardevolle kontak persoon is Gerda Pieterse wat hard werk om kontakte te maak met ons stamlande gpieterse@intekom.co.za

I Willem van de Merwe. Zijn zonen bij een onbekende vrouw: 1 Schalk Willemsz van de Merwe, geboren rond 1620, volgt onder II-a. 2 Pieter Willemsz van de Merwe, geboren rond 1622, volgt onder II-b. 3 Dirck Willemsz van de Merwe, volgt onder II-c.
II-a Schalk Willemsz van de Merwe, geboren rond 1620, zoon van Willem van de Merwe (I). Zijn kinderen bij een onbekende vrouw: 1 Willem Schalks van de Merwe, geboren in het jaar 1643, volgt onder III-a. 2 Dirk Schalks van de Merwe, geboren in het jaar 1648, volgt onder III-b. 3 Joost Schalks van de Merwe, volgt onder III-c.
II-b Pieter Willemsz van de Merwe, geboren rond 1622, zoon van Willem van de Merwe (I). Zijn kinderen bij een onbekende vrouw: 1 Grietje Pieters van de Merwe. 2 Schalk Pieters van de Merwe, volgt onder III-d

II-c Dirck Willemsz van de Merwe, zoon van Willem van de Merwe (I). Zijn zonen bij een onbekende vrouw: 1 Jan Dirksz van de Merwe, volgt onder III-e. 2 Willem Dirksz van de Merwe, volgt onder III-f.

III-a Willem Schalks van de Merwe, geboren in het jaar 1643, overleden te Zuid Afrika op 12 juli 1716, kind van Schalk Willemsz van de Merwe (II-a). Willem is getrouwd te Kaapstad op 9 september 1668 voor de kerk met Elsje Cloete, geboren te Duitsland rond 1650, dochter van Jacob Cloete en Sophia Raderootje. Uit dit huwelijk: 1 Schalk Willemsz van der Merwe, gedoopt te Kaapstad op 13 Augustus 1673, volgt onder IV-a. 2 Magdalena Willemsd van de Merwe, geboren rond 1690, volgt onder IV-b.
Personally, I feel that it would be the right approach to follow; specifically as they can

have a valuable input in this regard.

Awaiting your response!

MG Muller

That sounds like a definite path to pursue for primary sources. Can you do that?

Dear Sharon!

Thank you for your response. Will try to contact the researchers as soon as possible; as well as keeping you informed and obtaining the supporting sources.

Regards!

Thys Muller

:-)

Dear Sharon!

Information is for feedback only.

Geagte Gerda Pieterse!

Insake: Willem Schalk van der Merwe, SV/PROG (c.1640 - 1716).

U en Rein Wink se navorsing oor Willem Schalk van der Merwe, SV/PROG (c.1640 - 1716) se voorgeslagte in Suid-Afrika is tans onder diskussie!
U destydse navorsing toon die volgende:

I Willem van de Merwe. Zijn zonen bij een onbekende vrouw: 1 Schalk Willemsz van de Merwe, geboren rond 1620, volgt onder II-a. 2 Pieter Willemsz van de Merwe, geboren rond 1622, volgt onder II-b. 3 Dirck Willemsz van de Merwe, volgt onder II-c.
II-a Schalk Willemsz van de Merwe, geboren rond 1620, zoon van Willem van de Merwe (I). Zijn kinderen bij een onbekende vrouw: 1 Willem Schalks van de Merwe, geboren in het jaar 1643, volgt onder III-a. 2 Dirk Schalks van de Merwe, geboren in het jaar 1648, volgt onder III-b. 3 Joost Schalks van de Merwe, volgt onder III-c.
II-b Pieter Willemsz van de Merwe, geboren rond 1622, zoon van Willem van de Merwe (I). Zijn kinderen bij een onbekende vrouw: 1 Grietje Pieters van de Merwe. 2 Schalk Pieters van de Merwe, volgt onder III-d

II-c Dirck Willemsz van de Merwe, zoon van Willem van de Merwe (I). Zijn zonen bij een onbekende vrouw: 1 Jan Dirksz van de Merwe, volgt onder III-e. 2 Willem Dirksz van de Merwe, volgt onder III-f.

III-a Willem Schalks van de Merwe, geboren in het jaar 1643, overleden te Zuid Afrika op 12 juli 1716, kind van Schalk Willemsz van de Merwe (II-a). Willem is getrouwd te Kaapstad op 9 september 1668 voor de kerk met Elsje Cloete, geboren te Duitsland rond 1650, dochter van Jacob Cloete en Sophia Raderootje. Uit dit huwelijk: 1 Schalk Willemsz van der Merwe, gedoopt te Kaapstad op 13 Augustus 1673, volgt onder IV-a. 2 Magdalena Willemsd van de Merwe, geboren rond 1690, volgt onder IV-b.

Ek skryf namens geni(The World Family Tree). Tans benodig geni die stawende bronne; sodat geni die bronne kan verifieer en dat genoemde voorouers wel die voorouers van Willem Schalk van der Merwe, SV/PROG (c.1640 - 1716) is.

Sal u asseblief so vriendelik wees om die aangevraagde bronne per e-pos aan onderstaande te stuur. Ek het ook 'n e-pos na Rein Wink gestuur; maar my e-pos het nie deurgegaan nie. As u my kan help om hom te kontak, sal ek so dankbaar wees!

U spoedige antwoord of as u my telefonies kontak, sal dit opreg waardeer word!

Groete!

Ds. MG Müller

Thanks Thys. Keep us posted.