John ap Gruffudd (Pengruffwnd) - Wales in April 2020

What I did wrong was to put the lineage up so he can go over it, stalker I call it, sabotage is it, well, I put no links up anymore not even on FB, can't get the stalkers trying to say it is not right, to stop the people, from seeing there past, sad to say, this is not what I saw, when you want people to pay for this service and you take what they find and dismantle it so they can't find the past, you are supposed to help people find there past not take it away, oh you don't want me to know what you are doing here, robots. Thanks for the links by the way, and Thanks Joni, we all live and learn, not to reveal anything for they will tell you it's wrong. Remember we are the ones that are deleted from our past to find it, I have found it, lol

Thanks, Susanne!

How do we believe that when Geni lineage takes you to Adam and Eve, who are we to believe, where are all the facts to that, lineage, you want me to spell it out for you, no facts but you send me to Adam of Eden, sup. I don't believe in Adam and Eve, I want some facts

Some of the lineages do go back to really ancient times. Its a bit tricky here, because we are talking about religion, specifically Judaism. In this case, there is an entire group of people who trace their lines to David or Adam and Eve (Christianity too). That is an argument for someone other than me.
This particular issue is a point of contention on Geni. One example is a discussion about King Ashot II and Ripsime. The line was cut because the curators determined that there was just no provable connection in that particular line leading to King David. So there goes HRH Elizabeth's claim to the throne...She, too, was related through this line. As we learn more information, things will continue to change in the World Tree as it is a work in progress. It will never be "finished".
The sources for the lineage of King David have been rigorously documented by Jewish historians and rabbis over thousands of years. These sources are only accepted because back then in the years BC, there wasn't much in the way of history being written down. If there were written manuscripts of historical significance, they probably burned in the great libraries of Alexandria, Egypt, when it was sacked by the Romans. Even then despite existence of the ancient texts the rabbis use for reference, the line was cut by the curators due to conflicting evidence.
My view is that the curators don't allow their personal agendas to effect their decisions, which is why it is discussed and researched ad infinitum and sometimes ad nauseum, on many of these lineages. Don't judge too quickly. I observe that you came here, meaning Geni, to look for help researching your family lines. Help is here, but it might not be the answer you are looking for. In this case, it is up to us to do the proving when the paper trail fails to convince Cerberus (Geni curators) to allow the not well documented dead to stay in the land of the "living" and not to cross the river Styx into the oblivion of time.

Lewys Dwnn's 1613 Heraldic Visitation of Wales is a highly problematic work.

Though it's useful in that Dwnn transcribed many Welsh genealogies, it is NOT useful in that he did not in any way reconcile them, or make sense of them.

(That's why Bartrum, rather than Dwnn, is the gold standard; he did the heavy lifting of working out the many contradictions in the medieval genealogies. Others have taken his work further, but he was the first to start to make real sense of the inherited genealogies.)

So I'm always wary when I see that any Welsh lineage is depending on Dwnn. Unless his work is used very carefully, it's highly misleading.

The early Welsh immigrants into America are extremely difficult to untangle. The records are simply scant on the ground.

And the issue is compounded by the fact that, since the Welsh did not in general (exceptions in the Marcher families and some in the cities) start taking surnames until they were forced to by law in the 16th century, there are, in comparison to the rest of Britain, very few surnames in Wales, all of which had to be invented, and they were invented by just a few methods. (Some were fathers' or grandfathers' names, like Griffith, from Gruffudd, some were from fathers' or grandfathers' nicknames, such as Lloyd, from Llwyd (grey, or taupe, really), some were place names, like Yale, from Ial, some were from patronymics, like Price from ap Rhys.) This means that there are a GREAT many families with the same surnames, or very close. Griffith is one of the most common surnames, Gruffudd having been one of the most popular mens' names.

All of which is to say -- highly difficult field; easy to get waylaid.

this "lord" (sure) reminds me of dale rice with the similar delusions of grandeur, inability to accept anything other that family lore as anything less than gospel, idea that some semi-ancient welsh background(real or not) somehow equates with greatness {before anyone thinks i'm besmirching wales, do a quick check of how welsh i am - doesn't make me great or the TRUE LINEAGE TO THE KINGS - wtf} & a trumpian understanding/usage of the english language.

but, i really hope he comes back to correct me and remind me how he doesn't have the time for this.

- as an aside (i do have the time for this) did a quick and simple ancestry profile for his "lord"ship -before and after his kingly defrocking- and can't seem to find any reasonable association with anything "lord"like. its a self assigned title (as much a lord as dr. dre is a physician). oh the stuff one comes across in this beautiful/wacky genealogy world.

I really do wish we had thumbs up signs to note for comments.....Some good ones today and some where I felt like I was sitting on a bus with Ken Kesey or at least one of the Merry Pranksters.

i am going to assume that was meant for me and say thanks. i wish my acerbic wit could be used for good more often, but i've been given a warning now and again about being a bit too obtuse.

there should be a thumbs up/down option at a minimum, i agree

No, I wasn't thinking of you when I said that, Dr. Stephen John Pratt, Ph.D.. I followed your ramblings pretty well. As someone who has a Deadhead sticker on her Toyota, who am I to talk?

i have to say, i am a little hurt you weren't talking about me.

wait, no i'm not, because its often impossible to tell from messages.

that's how i know his "lord"ship is just on a rant for attention and that you and i are not (ok maybe i am a bit).

but my dear ms gunter, neither you, nor i, have referred to ourselves as the TRUE LINEAGE TO THE KINGS.

as an unrelated aside, i saw the dead at rfk in dc in 1989. not a fan, but wanted to be able to say i saw them with jerry.
would have loved if you said "a dead head sticker on a cadillac"

and to my "learned" brethren from the west coast of brittania. i am a descendent of welsh kings, i am a descendent of english kings (before 1066), i am a descendent of norman kings, i am a descendent of french kings, i am a descendent of english kings (after 1066), i am a descendent of kings from a whole boatload of other countries (some that still exist, some that don't).

what it doesn't make me is
1 - a lord
2 - anything else
3- see one above

i don't have time for any more of this

BRING MORE WINE

Dr. Stephen John Pratt, Ph.D., well, if you must know - it isn't Mrs. but Dr., I just don't make it a part of my name as it really is like the titles, much ado about nothing. Kurt Vonnegut pretty much dispelled any notions of a PhD, LLD, JD, EdD, even MD being much in "Player Piano."

If I had read it first, I would not have ever finished my dissertation. Why bother?

I like being just plain Susanne. I come from a long line of Susannas from three centuries at least. The name goes back to some of my ancient Hebrew lines it seems in Scotland. But was first Shoshana in Hebrew, then Susana in Latin, and Suzanne, and Susanne and Susan as the Romans propogated it around the world. It shows up in my mother's Finnish line as Susanna or "Sanna" and Susanne so I like it. It is different enough to not be pretentious and just a bit old-fashioned.

As for kings and queens, though they are there, I am happier that I am a descendent of rabble rousers. From Pentti Tyniuksenpoika Piri who lost his head for his beliefs in the Cudgel War to the last time I counted 12 Revolutionary direct ancestors, and an assortment of those in the War of 1812 to solidify the Union, I am proud. Though my four paternal grandfathers fought for the CSA, not one of them owned a slave, though a few of their ancestors did and it was abhorrent. They were yeoman farmers who saw no way out, which is why so many of their descendants fought for the US in every war since and lost lives in WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam. One of my ancestors was called back as a state senator as a very old man to vote SC back into the Union after he left the Senate in 1854 because he was tired of the talk of war that he knew would devastate the state.

Yes, I am on Jerry's bus to Peace and Love. I'm here for family. Course, I just had another glass of wine too. Geni does that to me. Warm and fuzzy.

As an aside Dr. Stephen John Pratt, Ph.D., who drives a Cadillac? I know, yes, probably half of Geni, but not this art teacher.....mileage.

respect the hell out of that. (my dissertation puts one to sleep either by boredom or a solid crack across the skull). {from a family of mds, i hold my "not a real doctor" as a badge}.

i like my unkempt ancestors better as well. more color/flourish/life. this makes my disdain for types like his "lord"ship even stronger. [prefer the weirdness of some of my hungarian blood more than most other lines].

geni tends to make me warm&fuzzy as well. my problem is keeping it more teddy than grizzly.

caddy's are shiite. was just referencing don henley

Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert I have no dog in this fight, but I would caution against the assumption that Dwnn's listing of two people, that are later shown to have died young, does not preclude the possibility that later men, with the same names, may still have been descended from a particular family. It was not uncommon for the Welsh, and for early colonists for that matter, to have lost young children, only to reuse the names for subsequent children, that may have actually been born after the Visitations.

Lol.

It was not uncommon for the Welsh, for that matter, to have several living children with the same name. That had been a long time custom by the time of the colonies.

dangit Private User I was saving that bullet. LOL

Oh noes!

Sorry. I will let you use that, next time.

The Welsh Tree R Us

It's good to have a harmless obsession.

Steven Mitchell Ferry You are absolutely correct, there are always such possibilities. But, as I am sure that you are aware, not precluding something is not the same as proving it. What often happens with these colonial ancestors is that descendants look through these visitations and other upper-class family pedigrees, find a matching name and declare their immigrant to be the same as the name listed in the book, without a shred of real evidence linking the two of them. Sure, they might be related, but that has to be proven, otherwise it is just a wild guess. I think that family researchers often do not realize that a Griffin family listed in works like the Visitations (which focused on upper-class families) is not the one and only Griffin family on the British Isles.

True that.

Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert Agreed

Oh, if you can connect to all the ones that I follow, then you can talk babble to me otherwise you are just tooting your own horn, cause you don't have what I have, so ya have to nit pick at anything that is not what the system wants, well you know about the system if you are connected to everyone that I follow, then if you are worthy of a conversation, even if you are not connected to all, just not worthy of the drama called babble, only if you can link up to ALL THAT I FOLLOW, hey let me know, leave the kings and queens out this time, we make it easier, cause I know I am connected there, just the movie stars wealthy hey, rulers, I know you are not, so the answer is clear

This information is haunting me, saying it is right, and you know it is right, they never died before or in 1622, you will reside on my-side one day and you will make a step to know what is on the paper is the right, knowledge is true, but not the ones trying to hide the truth, the truth is in the pudding, no pudding no truth, to put the way it was, not to be the missing link is which is not we don't live in a lie, don't do what the system tells you, do the right, not the wrong, we learn who the supporters of the system, someone is dictating what happens, sad but the denial will be there. Keep it cute, Lord out

Edward Griffin
FamilySearch Family Tree
Birth: 1602 - Walton, Radnorshire, Wales, United Kingdom
Death: From 1698 - Flushing, Queens, New York, British Colonial America
Parents: John Pengruffwind Griffin, Anne Griffin (born Langford)
Wife: Mary Griffin (born David)
Children: Edward Griffin, Edward Griffin Jr., Jasper Griffin, Jasper Griffin, John Griffin, John Griffin, Samuel Griffin, and names of 2 more children
Siblings: Sgt. John Griffin, Ann Cowper (born Griffin), Katrin Griffin, Margaret Griffin, Joan Griffin

WikiTree
FREE
John Johan Griffin (born Pengruffwnd), 1560 - 1655
John Johan Griffin was born in 1560, in Walton, Pembrokeshire, Wales, to Richard Gruffydd ap Richard Griffin and Jowan Pengruffwnd.
John married Ann Langford.
They had one child: Edward Griffin.
John passed away in 1655, at age 95 in Flushing, New York.

Lord Bruce Ross Myers -- I see that you have information from FamilySearch and WikiTree.

In each case, what are the sources they cite?

These are trees, not sources, based on disproved assumptions.

Well, they aren't helpful at all at all, in that case.

Unclear how the pudding applies.

Talking babble (or is it Babel with you) because no one has what you have?

THEN PRESENT YOUR DATA TO END ANY ARGUMENT

OTHERWISE YOU ARE EITHER LYING OR DELUSIONAL.

See how i yelled there? Its like I was demanding something be true, without any actual reason.

Edward Griffin, is he the same as Eddie Griffin?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Griffin

Very Welsh

Ann Langford MP
Gender: Female
Birth: circa 1555
Walton,,Pembrokeshire,Wales
Death: July 21, 1655 (95-104)
Walton, Swales, Pembrokeshire, Wales

John ap Gruffudd (Pengruffwnd)
Gender: Male
Birth: circa 1560.....
Walton, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Death: July 21, 1655 (90-99) the profile was changed to 1611, on his death, sad he has to change that,

Waltwn, Pembrokeshire, South West, Wales