ATTENTION Curators, please assist

Susanne Floyd re: "Frankly if it is in the "Merge Center," it seems a given that someone (if it is Geni) thinks it should be merged."
BAD ASSUMPTION! One of the reasons I choose to keep many Profiles private is because many Geni users think like that.
Geni seems to regularly tweak the algorithm used for Tree Matches. Two profiles, same name, different spouses, different parents, different children, born over ten years apart - that was one of the recent Tree Matches in my merge center that I rejected. Have also rejected Tree Matches of siblings with different names, different dates of birth.

I merge, and very accurately, and it is what members - and Geni - want and deserve.

There is talk about corner cases, and we’re losing the scope of the question. Don’t generalize.

Be specific with a URL case in the curators assist discussion that seems questionable and we’ll examine for best practice.

NB distinguish between tree matches and requested merges. The former is automated and may be inaccurate, examine carefully, reject promptly. Requested merges are usually good.

Lois the cases you reject I fix. In Colonial America, date discrepancies more than 10 years are not unusual. The relationships are a better indicator - but a bio is best of all. So I do that first.

Private User, I agree. I reject most of them, merging only ones that I think work with the tree. Many have nothing but names, approximate dates - maybe and no location or anything else. But for whatever reason, yes, I think as you - algorithm, it doesn't work oftentimes.

I just think that we are getting mixed messages. I agree that we should merge where indicated and with great care, but this was the first I had heard of merges stopping the download of additional gedcom files and the idea we needed to PM the importer to see if they want to merge and explain the WT to them. That's on Geni, in my opinion. Those of us who work at this regularly have our hands full.

It’s not really on Geni - they’re a software provider, after all. I suppose it best “belongs” to family members, with assist from curators if requested. It’s not something I would do except for a close relative.

Erica - Really - you accept a Tree Match with the only thing in common being the name, the two profiles have different spouses, different parents, different children, and dates of birth over ten years apart?
Or did you not realize I meant all of those differences applied to the same Tree Match??

Can someone please make this (and adjacent, if possible) profile public? Martha "Patsey" McAlexander?

I get that Erica Howton. I think what is "on Geni" is whether or not we are supposed to merge or not. That is the question. I basically do it for close relatives, but it is a tree that branches out. I grew up playing with my first cousins' cousins. I am working on trees for them and all collateral branches that I come across. Maybe Geni needs to give us guidelines on what they want us to do.

My fear is that if I don't merge (and clean them up as you do), that someone else will come along and make a royal mess of it. That is why I say maybe we just need to reject them so they are gone forever or as "forever" as exists in cyberspace.

Private User, a nice summation, thanks.

I agree it would help if Geni gave some better (and easier to find) information on how Geni functions (especially to new users).
It may also help if the importer process did not continue an import for a branch without explicit instruction from the importing user (and maybe also not before some [or even all?] of the conflicts for that imported branch where handled.

Some thoughts;

Some time ago I complained about an import that had brought in many duplicate profiles which resulted in many tree matches which had to be dealt with. I expressed the opinion that Geni should allow it. One of the curators, I don't remember who, pointed out that the import had brought in several10's of thousands of profiles, and that for the WFT to grow we should welcome imports, even if it means some work reconciling the duplicates, in order for the WFT to become more complete. There is some truth to that, and it obviously depends on the quality of the data and the ratio of new profiles to duplicate profiles to be able to evaluate its usefulness.

I don't think Job was suggesting not to merge the resultant duplicates. I think he was suggesting not to rush into doing merges while the import was still running, as it might affect the algorithms and allow the import of even more duplicates. But after the import has finished I think it is critical the the duplicate profiles be merged.

The suggestion that merges should routinely be rejected is a mistake, because leaving duplicates in the WTF without attempting to fix them, degrades our common end product. Ideally the user who ran the import would fix all the dups, but unfortunately that can't be relied on. I for one hate having tree merges associated with any profiles I manager or follow and attempt to reconcile the issues If I am capable.

Bernard

Perhaps a better venue could be found for debating GEDCOM?

Jan Andreas Knudsen husband and wife now publlic

Reminder of this discussion on Gedcom Imports https://www.geni.com/discussions/192952 (Return of GEDCOM Import)

Private User merging is when two profiles representing the same person (usually managed by two different Geni users and being parts of two different trees) are joined into one profile.

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229705667-Where-can-I-find-...

I have cut the parental connection between Elza and Marcus, this is not the same as unmerging which is why I failed yesterday to understand what you were needing help with.

I agree, Alex Moes, but we are here, sadly. I think a big question, Bernard Joseph Albanese, is how do we know an import is finished? I agree by the way with what you have said. I just have never known how you could tell someone was finished with their upload. I don't like to reject matches, but will if nothing is on them or they are obviously incorrect. If I have documentation, I go in and merge and fix as Erica Howton described. This happens a lot when a wife of someone is named in the new duplicate and there is no substantiating information on her name or her maiden name. It is just MNU or "Unknown wife of..." I make a note on the merge profile to that effect. It gets complicated when the new profile has unsubstantiated parents, but if we want to get it right, they will put something on there - not just an Ancestry note that has no viable link.

The big problem just about nothing from Ancestry is viable!

I vaguely remember seeing a 'warning' message one time that a GEDCOM upload was in process for a profile, so I left it alone, but I've never seen that warning again. There's no really obvious way to tell it's an import unless you open the full profile. Maybe some kind of warning dot or another color around the profile picture if it's an import? I also agree with Susanne that it seems like a lot of people just import a bunch of profiles and then never look at them again. The people who make everything private and then just disappear don't help either.

P. S. I'd love to have a different visual clue that a profile has a tree match rather than lumping them in with the record and smart matches in tree view. :)

There is an icon in tree view when an import is in progress for a branch for the marked profile in the Flash tree, not sure if there is one in the HTML tree.

I hope there could be some improvements on ancestry GEDCOMs. The document to which the profiles are linked is not very informative (to put it mildly)

Private User I know what I’m doing. For example, If it’s John Alden - a frequent “no other info” Gedcom upload - I know how to merge it for the 500th time. That’s why I warned not to over generalize and present exact cases.

—-

Susanne Floyd Rejecting incorrect tree matches helps the algorithm. Ignoring matches or hiding matches does not help, they’ll just get merged in later in another fashion.

We do have some tools to help with massive duplicate trees, such as the medieval dups project. I also do it in Colonial America but luckily there haven’t been terrible uploads for over a year.

I think my message were missed between the messages.
Gertruida Sophia Smit, b1c1d9e3 died February 14,1858. Her death notice is attached to her profile. On her death notice are 7 children. I found all but one baptismal record. They were all born between 1833 and 1857.
The following profiles (children) may be duplicated but can't be merged as they are marked private.
I did send a message to the manager about two weeks ago and received a response this morning.

Clyde Jacques Smith
yesterday at 9:58 PM

Hi Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I am stuck out of state due to COVID restrictions by us. Tried to do this on my phone but no success. Not sure when I will be back home.

Please assist if possible.
Nicolaas Johannes Hendrik Smith, b1c5d9
Hendrik Adam Laurens Smith, b1c5d11
Hendrik Adam Laurens Smith, b1c5d11
Johanna Maria Christina Smith, b1c5d13
William Stephanus Smith
Daniel Smith, b1c5d15
Annie Maria Meiring, b1c5d16

Thank you.

Thanks, Job Waterreus for all that you do and I think Geni recognizes the problem because we keep complaining about it enough. :-)

Erica Howton, I have seen how getting profiles and lines cleaned up and sourced on Geni does help the My Heritage matches over time as I am a member on both. Better info yields better "matches." My Heritage, Ancestry, and Family Search have good sources separate from their trees in the Search mode if people will use them and that is the big "if." Wikitree wants you to put a source for everything you add to the biography. I rather like that. Though they have a lot of empty profiles from - you guessed it - gedcom imports. Oh well. It is what it is. A constant battle.

Erica Howton - is this your area. https://www.geni.com/discussions/224054 ?
Looks like the version with 19 managers should be cleaned up
Bio on Overview says died 1802, profile says death March 23, 1761
And poster apparently wants to merge in one who died 1802 who is her 5th great grandfather

Private User you weren't missed i just didn't want to force a bunch of private profiles to public when the manager is active. Your update with the PM included changes that, if no one else processes it for you i will get to it in the next few hours.

Susanne Floyd Geni staff do not monitor the discussion forum to see what users are complaining about.

Lois supplied you with a link to the Gedcom thread, please go there https://www.geni.com/discussions/192952

PS Geni, FamilySearch and Wiktree are free to access, Ancestry is not so a link to an Ancestry tree is useless for majority of people.

Alex Moes Thank you.

Erica Howton - I was not suggesting you do not know what you are doing. I was suggesting you did not understand what I was referring to. Quite possibly because I did not explain well.
These were Tree Matches that showed up in my merge center, so I know for a fact you did not do anything with them or I would have been told (since in my Max Family or a profile I manage or at least follow). None were colonial America.

If Geni ever presents me with another where the only thing that matches is the name, each have family members, and the family members clearly are not the same, shall I post details here so all can scratch their heads, or send you details and maybe a link in a PM?

Please undo.

https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=79435952880

Private User done

Please merge the duplicate mother: https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/4042785708280129934?resolve=...

Thanks